[fizzissist]

........ Has anyone noticed the age of this thread??????

We're looking at 8 years !!!!!!

[dsquire]

........ Has anyone noticed the age of this thread??????

We're looking at 8 years !!!!!!

Also no posts since 5/12/2015. Can be interesting at times.

Cheers :cheers:

Don

[Routerfiend]

Fine pieces of debating form all contributors. Are we any closer to the truth ? Not a chance but reading the opinions of others is very interesting.

[40fordcoupe]

It is difficult to convince someone who is absolutely sure they are correct when they have not made an in-depth study of the subject.
IMHO when a computer model is used to generate evidence of future weather patterns and the parameters are based upon assumptions one might as well use an Ouija board.

[JOliver]

Great thread! It's almost like a sociological experiment in itself. I personally was spurred to comment by 40fordcoup's observation about oligarchy, though I misread it the first time as being pro-oligarchy, which would have been even more interesting! And upon reflection not even surprising given the prevalence of misinformation campaigns these days. Regardless, I totally agree; oligarchy bad.
We are seeing a new class of Robber Barrons taking over not just the U.S., but the world. Capitalism has only been shown to work very well with a strict and boring rule-book to back it up, see the 1950's - the 1980's (minus the oil embargo). Our banks and markets are now being run like old-west casino's, yee-haw! So, how does this relate to global warming?
Well... there's a feedback loop going on. Since the "Citizen's United" Supreme Court ruling, and the "McCutchen" ruling backing it up, obscene amounts of money are being thrown around in politics. Way more obscene than usual. This all is under the guise of "freedom of speech". How many folks you know have a spare million $$ to "speak" to a candidate with?
That money is invested (and yes, it's an investment, it would be irresponsible otherwise) to help ensure that candidates support the issues that keep their "investors" rich. These candidates use their collective powers to further promote the wealthy, mostly through the tax code, but also through regulations, laws regarding copyrights, trade laws, and through subsidies. These wealthy get wealthier and give the politicians more money, and the cycle repeats. As a side effect, antiquated established technologies that are harmful in many ways to the people on this particular planet maintain their footholds while viable alternatives are quashed or not encouraged to grow. All in the name of a free market, right? Well, do you have ANY idea of the MASSIVE subsidies that this nation is giving to the fossil fuel industry? How is that a free market?!? And thus, global warming.
The funny part is that there's no big conspiracy, just a bunch of people with a lot of influence acting in their own best interests at everyone else's expense. And believe you me, this includes the small machinist's expense. Oy, Government, what are you doing!?! Isn't that the kind of thing you're supposed to help with? Oh yeah, right...
The moral of the story is we need "money" to get the hell out of politics.
One of my close relatives is, really and for real, an actual climate scientist who spends months of the year living in a tent under a constant siege of mosquitoes north of the Arctic Circle for months out of the year, and for very, very little money. This person could probably make a killing in the private sector, but doesn't... Now why is that, do you think?
Phew! Fun rant.

[RCWorks.com]

We have a meme for this on another site... It helps those that don't think things through.
Attachment 288186

[ifixcnc]

GREAT Post! The Robber Barron feedback loop. Well said!

[handlewanker]

Well something good must be coming out of all the bull that climate variation is generating.......the local news just gave out a report that with the huge and enthusiastic embracement of domestic roof top PV panels, they now exceed in output the capacity of our largest coal fired power station which is Loy Yang.

This has ramifications for the electricity producing industry due to the reduced revenue being collected.

The Government has also stated that by 2050 coal fired power stations for generating electricity in OZ will all cease to exist........but the demand for our coal exports from other coal users will still generate revenue to justify the further search and mining of the coal still in the ground.......having a natural resource is not something you really want to throw away.....even if a god decreed it, and some people think they are gods with cart blanche agendas to make all obey them.

BTW, on the subject of energy conservation, my entire household is now lit by LED bulbs of various sizes......not to be confused with the CFL ones which I've scrapped.........LED's consume milliamps of power and have a rated life expectancy of 50,000 hours.
Ian.

[dufas]

Al Gore Brags That Germany Powering Itself With Green Energy | The Daily Caller

Al Gore Brags That Germany Powering Itself With Green Energy ... For A Few Hours!

Former vice president Al Gore is celebrating the fact that Germany briefly got 78 percent of its electricity from green energy sources last weekend. What Gore forgets to mention is that this was accomplished for just a few hours on a really windy, sunny day.

Germany was even exporting power at that time, probably to maintain the stability of the electrical grid because wind turbine output can’t be controlled.

[JOliver]

The stability of solar and wind output is a big issue, but it doesn't take rocket science to solve it. For example, Tesla Motors is working on a home battery called something like "PowerWall" that will store peak supply energy for use at peak demand. Their battery "Gigafactory", when it opens, will likely reduce the price for all of these types of batteries making this type of system practical, possibly even when one doesn't have solar or wind. Of course, it will also make their cars cheaper.
As cities continue to grow, pricing for electricity in many markets is probably going to be changing. People will pay more per kWh during peak hours, and less when nobody's using any. Storing energy at homes and businesses from off-peak hours for use during peak hours will have several advantages. It will create less stress on the grids, it creates an existing emergency supply in case grids do go down, and it will eventually mean that more sustainable energy sources can be used more often, and with greater effect. There are issues, like who pays for the grids if fewer people are using them, but an interesting change is coming.
This is exactly the kind of thing that the government should have made a huge investment in a long time ago, like, say, when the economy crashed! Managed correctly, the ROI would have been phenomenal. (Want to talk Solyndra? Love to.) But no. This project got only a small boost, and massive subsidies continued to pour into the most profitable and poisonous industry in the history of the world. Now, I have friends who have worked, and do work in big oil. That doesn't mean they are bad people. It's just that the existing system has perverse incentives, and this makes change very difficult! Folks gotta work...

[dufas]

Interesting...................

Stanford researchers uncover patterns in how scientists lie about their data

[handlewanker]

The stability of solar and wind output is a big issue, but it doesn't take rocket science to solve it. For example, Tesla Motors is working on a home battery called something like "PowerWall" that will store peak supply energy for use at peak demand. Their battery "Gigafactory", when it opens, will likely reduce the price for all of these types of batteries making this type of system practical, possibly even when one doesn't have solar or wind. Of course, it will also make their cars cheaper.
As cities continue to grow, pricing for electricity in many markets is probably going to be changing. People will pay more per kWh during peak hours, and less when nobody's using any. Storing energy at homes and businesses from off-peak hours for use during peak hours will have several advantages. It will create less stress on the grids, it creates an existing emergency supply in case grids do go down, and it will eventually mean that more sustainable energy sources can be used more often, and with greater effect. There are issues, like who pays for the grids if fewer people are using them, but an interesting change is coming.
This is exactly the kind of thing that the government should have made a huge investment in a long time ago, like, say, when the economy crashed! Managed correctly, the ROI would have been phenomenal. (Want to talk Solyndra? Love to.) But no. This project got only a small boost, and massive subsidies continued to pour into the most profitable and poisonous industry in the history of the world. Now, I have friends who have worked, and do work in big oil. That doesn't mean they are bad people. It's just that the existing system has perverse incentives, and this makes change very difficult! Folks gotta work...

Yeah, well if you have natural resources, only a fool would deny their use......when we learn to clean up the mess as we make it, probably then the use of fossil fuels etc will be more palatable to the green brigade.

That there is a profit to be made from directing one's energies (pun intended) into quarters that are prone to problems, goes without saying, but like the aero industry with the Wright bros........it gets better as it gets better and sitting in a comfortable seat near a window watching the clouds go by is a lot better than Wilbur or Orville's seat on an exposed wing position......you just gotta put your momey where your mouth is.

The end result is that, by decree, the fossil fuel industry needs to fund the evolution into clean and sustainable energy production......and it goes without saying that the present fossil fuel usage and production needs probably more mega bucks for less gain than the same amount spent on photo, wind and water resource exploitation......those sources will never dry up one day, that is unless we end up as a small part of our Sun and who's to care then.

We need to progress deeply into sustainable resources.....to not do so while we can means eventually we won't be able to indulge in them.....in any form, and that means ignoring the doom watches and penny pinchers with tunnel vision and near sightedness......by decree.

Suire, lots of people with vision and opportunity will make trillions from the technology roll , but that's par for the course.....let it happen......the outcome is ring side seats for all that embrace it......those that won't....get your free candles at the back door....LOL.
Ian.

[dufas]

LAMAR SMITH: NOAA's climate change science fiction - Washington Times

NOAA’s climate change science fiction

The environmental intelligence agency ignores satellite data

[stevenj]

Uh no. The raw satellite data has to be correctly corrected to allow for things like orbital decay, instrument age and time of day shifts etc. When that is done it agrees with other data sets collected by other independent methods. So the data is not ignored at all., but to ensure a high confidence in the actual readings as many different sources are combined to eliminate (or show) discrepancies.

[RCWorks.com]

Yeah, adjust that data so it reflects what you wish it said rather then the truth.

[Eldon_Joh]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9tVegyerWu...80+to+2013.png

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

[stevenj]

Yeah, adjust that data so it reflects what you wish it said rather then the truth.

So you do not calibrate your CNC then? dont check your micrometers are really zero and accurate at max? yes, bound to end well.

[40fordcoupe]

Not the same thing at all. Apples and oranges.

[stevenj]

Not the same thing at all. Apples and oranges.

It is a machine just like a CNC it has sensors and motors that need to be calibrated and checked for drift over time just like a CNC. The same with a micrometer you check its accurate when you buy it and again at intervals. This is known as QA, at least any competent machinist / shop would.

[40fordcoupe]

I am sorry i should have been more clear. i meant to say the so called corrected data has been cherry picked and should not be used as a standard.