[handlewanker]

Yeah, I think that fact has been quite thoroughly vented when the corn for food products prices suddenly shot up, but what did you expect....farmers are out to make a living and farm life ain't all that "a bed of roses".

In Brazil they make Ethanol from sugar cane, and in OZ we got lots of the stuff, so I expect we'all will be sitting pretty once again, first coal now Ethanol.

I would be very worried at the corn based Ethanol production way, too many people are being encouraged to "invest" in more land paid for by corn by product profits.

While the Ethanol cost is presently comparatively high, this is what you gonna get when the oil does actually get to the bottom of the last barrel, and then it will be a scramble to get a decent supply of the stuff just to get to work.

One thing's for sure, with the economy at an all time low in Yankee Land, the moonshiners will start to find a new market for their "products", and it won't be going to the speakeasies...LOL...that is if'n the "revenooers" let them alone.

Judging by the way the "land of the free" officialdom regulates and controls the population's domestic entrepreneurial ambitions, there won't be any DIY fuel producers or backyard boozer operatives like in the old days of prohibition.

I watched a film about Mali, Ghana and Nigeria the other day.
One of the biggest sellers in those regions is the Moped, without which the whole country would be forced to walk to market etc, and practically everything moves on two wheels.

The Chinese are extremely active there, and the Mopeds are selling for about $100, which is about 6 months wages for the locals.
Ian.

[bsimages]

Don't you know BS when you see it?
That was not created by the groups it's purported to be created by.
It was created by conservative groups trying to scam the uninformed.
It is just one more case of right-wing propaganda attempting to discredit reality!
I have a GIS degree and I have seen real-world evidence.
Global warming is real.
:drowning:

You should find this interesting...directions from the TEAM on how to construct the media releases and interface. All with a predetermined outcome.

That's what I call science. Ok, well, that's what THEY call science. I call publicity. Or more accurately, selling snake oil.

http://www.climate-gate.org/cru/docu...sOfTheGame.pdf

[RomanLini]

Don't you know BS when you see it?
...
Global warming is real.

I'm not trying to insult your qualifications or your experience in any way, but it's really comical seeing those two statements in the same paragraph!

The reason there is such a "debate" on the topic is because so many people really do know BS when they see it.

Like when the same documentary says that 40% of the polar ice cap has already melted (BS?) and if this continues then the oceans will rise 7 metres (BS?). You don't need to be an expert BS detector to crunch those 2 numbers...

So if 40% has already melted wouldn't that have already caused a 3 metre rise in the oceans? Or does the 7 metre rise only happen when the last 60% melts? :violin:

[bsimages]

40% of the south polar ice mass has not melted, 40% of the ice shelf has melted...
The ice shelf is the ice that is not on Antarctica, it is connected to the ice on the land but it is not the same thing, no BS.

I'm not trying to insult your qualifications or your experience in any way, but it's really comical seeing those two statements in the same paragraph!

The reason there is such a "debate" on the topic is because so many people really do know BS when they see it.

Like when the same documentary says that 40% of the polar ice cap has already melted (BS?) and if this continues then the oceans will rise 7 metres (BS?). You don't need to be an expert BS detector to crunch those 2 numbers...

So if 40% has already melted wouldn't that have already caused a 3 metre rise in the oceans? Or does the 7 metre rise only happen when the last 60% melts? :violin:

[dufas]

Al Gore's mea culpa for corn ethanol support - U.S. news - Environment - msnbc.com

Al Gore: Votes, not science, led me to back corn ethanol
Earlier support of 'first generation ethanol' was about his presidential bid..


As an aside, I would suggest that anyone with a GIS degree is probably working in a climate related occupation and would love to get their hands on some of that government largess for themselves. He would probably peer revue himself and announce consensus for his data.

The ice caps of Mars are shrinking because too many people are driving SUVs or it's Bush's fault.....

[Boltz]

Okay, Al Gore is a pompous blowhard, no argument there. Certainly when his utility bills were released it was an inconvenient truth for him.

Nonetheless, there are some "true believers" out there, like the guys at Google. They've stated that they feel pretty strongly that they can produce a gigawatt from renewable sources for less than the cost of a gigawatt from coal in a matter of "years, not decades".

So, does anybody know if their "RN<C" initiative truly involves no subsidies?

Certainly, the cost of producing photovoltaics has fallen substantially over the last year due to process improvements. Roughly 50%.

Additionally, high temperature superconducting wire could be used in the next generation 10 megawatt offshore wind turbines which are being developed by American Superconductor. The plan is to eliminate the gearbox, which is the most complicated, expensive, and failure-prone component. This would also provide a nice weight reduction on the tower.

Are the guys that are doing this stuff brainwashed kooks?

[bsimages]

I would suggest that you have no concept of what GIS is, as my work is not climate related.
The vast majority of GIS work is not climate related.
GIS = Geographical Information Systems, it is a complex form of mapping.
I would suggest a quote from Herbert Spenser: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”
:wee:

Al Gore's mea culpa for corn ethanol support - U.S. news - Environment - msnbc.com

Al Gore: Votes, not science, led me to back corn ethanol
Earlier support of 'first generation ethanol' was about his presidential bid..


As an aside, I would suggest that anyone with a GIS degree is probably working in a climate related occupation and would love to get their hands on some of that government largess for themselves. He would probably peer revue himself and announce consensus for his data.

The ice caps of Mars are shrinking because too many people are driving SUVs or it's Bush's fault.....

[fizzissist]

Since I worked with people who were directly involved with the Keck Earth Sciences and Mining Information Resources Center, and am familiar at least to a small degree that GIS is an aid to specialized bibliographic databases, scientific visualization and modeling packages, and geospatial data resources.

I also know that the people who do that work are no more skilled in making quantitative claims about global warming than the guys in the motor pool.

So your background in data systems is no more, or less valuable to this discussion than my background in physics.

What your background SHOULD provide is some insight as to how the manipulation by GISS/NOAA of the temperature record, without explanation or qualification, MUST call into question the validity of the basis for the AGW hysteria.

[bsimages]

It sure is dark in here...

[bsimages]

It sure is dark in here...

I worked for the U.S. Forest Service during the Bush Administration and we were not allowed to show or even keep any data that may have shown any signs of global or even regional warming.
Federal employees were fired for compiling any data that may shown those trends.
We actually had a written directive to that effect from the Secretary of the USDA.
I repeat my earlier quote:
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”
It was from this ignorance that the hatred of the facts of Global Warming was spawned.
It is greed and nothing more, the greed that feeds Enron, BP, Mobile etc...
They spend billions to keep you in ever lasting darkness, and from my view they invested well.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Originally Posted by bsimages View Post
Don't you know BS when you see it?
Global warming is real.

Right....

Global warming is a natural random variation of the climate. It may be real but it's insignificantly small in practical effect. It is the reality of anthropogenic global warming that is in question and there is more reason to believe it is a political fiction or a matter of religious faith than a scientific fact.

Both realists and greens don't argue the fact "climate change" has brought us:
1) A 1 degree change in temperature in the past 100 years.
2) A 0.25 meter change in sea-level in the past 100 years.
3) Over $80 billion spent so far to find out (1) and (2).

There isn't a single real "climate change" victim anywhere on earth. No one has died, no one has been injured and no one has even been inconvenienced by climate change. No one can notice it. It is a catastrophe entirely limited to computers running climate change models.

By any rational measure climate change is an imaginary entity more fitting to a theological examination than a scientific one. Religion and dogma are the proper tools with which to investigate AGW, not science. It is neither cynical or facile to cast the debate on AGW in those terms. The arguments for and the proponents of AGW bear all the other necessary hallmarks of a religious conflict of ideas and personal faith. Scientific discussion doesn't generate such emotions, especially amongst those not professionally expert in science.

[fizzissist]

It sure is dark in here...

Yeah, it's really dark when there aren't any stations, and you have to make up the light bulbs...

NOAA’s Jan-Jun 2010 Warmest Ever: Missing Data, False Impressions | Watts Up With That?

Ok, so Bush squelched data that showed warm. Who's squelching the data that shows cool? Who's cherry-picking the data or using models that artificially alter the trend to show increases in temperature that are greater than the observed...when the observed data is intact?

Care to discuss the Marysville v. Orland stations in California??

[handlewanker]

One thing my father always told me, especially when I got carried away with some notion of childish imagination, "Don't tell me son, show me". Ma' Pappy was a shrewd cookie.

Personally I get quite amused by the Chicken Little flapping in the academia circles, for without a cluck or a squark now'n agin' nobody'd know they existed or what they were up to.

Untill "they" whoever, show actual happenings affecting Humanoid activity, beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt, not hypothetical "going to happenings", but real "down our street" happenings, it's all Bovine excrement.

I don't think it's quite time to start doing a feasibility study on Noah's Ark 2, even if'n the first one dissapeared without trace, some years ago, there's just not enough evidence for the Greens to support the notion that 40 days and 40 nights of animalia crapping won't pollute the rising flood waters greatly, and if'n the Ark 2's population develops a bad case of diarrhoea, you won't need any more compost for millenia.

The inescapable truth is yo'all gonna pay the bill, B/S or truth, 'cos you ain't got no choice in the matter to decide otherwise.

Yo' can produce papers by the ton with graphs and squiggly lines all over the place, that mean something to someone, but if'n the powers that control you decide the Global Climate Variation thing is valid, on goes the tax, and yo'all jess gotta work harder, longer for less pay and by yo' lawfull expectations front up to the IRS and pay the man.

You is democratically represented, ain't youse?
So why yo'all feeling so hard done by?....There be folks in Third World countries working for a dollar a day and maybe a bowl of rice that gonna 'preciate the tax dollars yo' 'bin voted to give them.

One thing puzzles me, why'd yo'all get involved in the Climate Variation crap if'n yo' don't believe in it?
Din' yo' leaders have the balls to say "Uh Uh" when the Bull was proposed?...Or did they think the World would boycott yer' exports if'n yo' din' toe the party line?

One things for sure, the World ain't buying yo' exports 'cos they buying from China, so'a you....ain't that funny?....

It must be patently obvious, even to the lesser educated amongst us, that any involvement with Climate Variation policies is going to burn a hole in the proverbial back pocket for the lower orders.
This is interpreted as the Govenment screwing yo' big time and yo' get to smile while they doin' it.

Maybe the higher up the ladder of leadership yo' goes the more "connability" yo' develops, not sayin' Ol B'OB is a con man, seems like a nice boy to me, but take Al Gore, he got to be second to the top, and that's almost as big as it gets, and if'n he made $100 million from the AGW hypo, what'd 'ol Bushy make?
Ian.

[dufas]

Okay, Al Gore is a pompous blowhard, no argument there. Certainly when his utility bills were released it was an inconvenient truth for him.

Nonetheless, there are some "true believers" out there, like the guys at Google. They've stated that they feel pretty strongly that they can produce a gigawatt from renewable sources for less than the cost of a gigawatt from coal in a matter of "years, not decades".



Are the guys that are doing this stuff brainwashed kooks?

I don't think that there is anybody against the evolution of energy to the next level. Hopefully, it will be an affordable, renewable source. There is a difference between conning the populace out of their earnings through lies and deceit and an honest approach to a massive problem.

[dufas]

I would suggest that you have no concept of what GIS is, as my work is not climate related.
The vast majority of GIS work is not climate related.
GIS = Geographical Information Systems, it is a complex form of mapping.
I would suggest a quote from Herbert Spenser: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”
:wee:

I know what GIS is, I use the data all the time in CNCing 3D terrain. When one states that they are a weather expert and uses their diploma in the field of GIS to back up their genius, one can only assume that they work in a weather related occupation. Your real genius and arrogance is to degrade anyone who might disagree with you by name calling and personal belittlement using assumptions not in fact. Believe it or not, there are intelligent, left leaning people that do not follow every little thing put out by the elitists.

[dufas]

I worked for the U.S. Forest Service during the Bush Administration and we were not allowed to show or even keep any data that may have shown any signs of global or even regional warming.
Federal employees were fired for compiling any data that may shown those trends.

And I, as an engineer, worked with clean air scientists and watched them continually change the testing procedures and software in order to fit their theories.

Wasn't it the U.S. Forest Service that destroyed the lives of many in the northwest over the spotted owl only to find out later that everything was an admitted lie. You should be proud....

[fizzissist]

Data Fudge...Just in time for the Holidays!!!

GHCN V3 temperature data errors spotted within a day of release

GHCN V3 temperature data errors spotted within a day of release | Watts Up With That?

[dufas]

Data Fudge...Just in time for the Holidays!!!

GHCN V3 temperature data errors spotted within a day of release

GHCN V3 temperature data errors spotted within a day of release | Watts Up With That?

Everything is normal......................

[dufas]

Could an xray machine strong enough to see through metal have any effect on humans that were scanned. Duuuh, sort of makes worrying about damage from cell phones somewhat trite, I would think.....

Full-Body Scan Technology Deployed In Street-Roving Vans - Dateline Zero

“ZBV” – Z Backscatter Van | USAHM Conspiracy News

Mobile “Backscatter” Van Makes the Fourth Amendment Obsolete | North Star Tea Party Patriots

The Cancer Factory on Wheels: Backscatter Van | Paranoid News - UFOs, Conspiracies and the end of the world. Get Paranoid!

Z Backscatter Van highly mobile threat detection system

Z Backscatter Van Used to Scan for Car Bombs, Drugs and People in Hiding - SlashGear

Before It's News

POLICE STATE 2010: Backscatter Van Screening System *|*We Are Change

Is the Z Backscatter van good for law enforcement?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHRlXzRfvpA"]YouTube - ZBV Z Backscatter Van[/nomedia]

Police Chief Magazine - View Article

[dufas]

Scientists Now Know: We're From Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy!

[Comment from page two of the site noted above...read page one to understand comment below]
snip============================================== =====================
Implications in Global Warming?

It has been postulated that this is the real reason for both global warming since higher energy levels of the Milky Way are almost certain to cause our Sun to burn hotter and emit higher energies. Indeed, temperatures have been seen to rise on virtually all the planets in our system. This seems quite apart from any local phenomenon like greenhouse gases etc.

snip============================================== =====================