[MaxWeber]

Machine: 2008 Sharp SV2412
Control: Fanuc Oi Mate MC


My understanding is that the Oi MC control comes 4th axis ready whereas the Oi Mate MC control does not, but could still have a 4th added to it. Is this true? I'm finding lots of spare parts for these model years and was looking to add a 4th axis to my machine.

Hardinge has a video on youtube that describes the upgrade process for their 4th on a different machine that uses the same PSU/Servo Combo unit in my machine. I was thinking about buying the parts shown in the kit and then building my own rotary using a compatible fanuc servo motor.



Drive: A06B-6130-H002 (Approx $700 new from surplus, $350 used)
Motor: A06B-0034-B077 ($1500 new, $400-700 used)
Cables: Approx $100

Am I going to have to pay Fanuc to enable 4th in the control or will it simply be a parameter change? Is my approach way off to even bother considering?

Thanks,
Max

[zavateandu]

the implementation of the 4th axis is the responsabiility of the MTB of the machine.
The MTB is creating the ladder and put the push buttons on the operator panel for it and also is activating the Fanuc option ofr 4th axis.(if you do not have it you have to pay to Fanuc to enable it,they can also mount it for you.)
if you have the buttons and also the ladder prepared for 4th axis ,than is not a big deal to buy and mount the components for it.
if you do not have it prepared by the MTB than is not an easy job to do it.
good luck

[MaxWeber]

the implementation of the 4th axis is the responsabiility of the MTB of the machine.
The MTB is creating the ladder and put the push buttons on the operator panel for it and also is activating the Fanuc option ofr 4th axis.(if you do not have it you have to pay to Fanuc to enable it,they can also mount it for you.)
if you have the buttons and also the ladder prepared for 4th axis ,than is not a big deal to buy and mount the components for it.
if you do not have it prepared by the MTB than is not an easy job to do it.
good luck

I'll have to do some more investigating then. My manual jog pendant has a switch for 4th axis so I'm hoping that's a good sign! I'll report back here as I get more info.

[MaxWeber]

Well bad news, the combo PSU/Servo drive on my machine does not have the extra fiber optic port that the 4th axis drive would connect to. It looks like I might not be able to add a 4th very easily to this machine :-(

Pictured below is my combo drive with the single fiber optic port circled in red (I need two of these):
Attachment 445166

[drdos]

0i-Mates don't support the 4th axis option. That's a lower end control. You will have to upgrade to an non mate 0i. Set the number of axes to be controlled by using parameter No. 8130. It will only allow you to turn on the number of axis that the controller will support.

[MaxWeber]

0i-Mates don't support the 4th axis option. That's a lower end control. You will have to upgrade to an non mate 0i. Set the number of axes to be controlled by using parameter No. 8130. It will only allow you to turn on the number of axis that the controller will support.

That's what I'm inclined to think too, but I've seen a few people online with a 4th using this control. I'd love to just get the non-mate control since it would just be a grand or two, but obviously getting it hooked up and configured would probably be a nightmare.

I'm waiting to hear back more info from Sharp on the matter so maybe after the holiday weekend I'll get more answers. I know at the very least this control can index in 4th with m codes

[bill4807]

That's what I'm inclined to think too, but I've seen a few people online with a 4th using this control. I'd love to just get the non-mate control since it would just be a grand or two, but obviously getting it hooked up and configured would probably be a nightmare.

I'm waiting to hear back more info from Sharp on the matter so maybe after the holiday weekend I'll get more answers. I know at the very least this control can index in 4th with m codes

If you cannot get full 4th axis. Other options are use a Beta I/O link drive to control a rotary table. Or tsudacoma external axis controller.

[MaxWeber]

If you cannot get full 4th axis. Other options are use a Beta I/O link drive to control a rotary table. Or tsudacoma external axis controller.

That's precisely what I wanted to try and do, but the optic cable from the beta I/O link would have to plug into a spare optic port on my main servo/PSU drive which only has one optic port (being used by the 3 axes)

Would be nice if I could swap out the logic board for one that has it, but I'm sure there's no way that would work either.

[bill4807]

That's precisely what I wanted to try and do, but the optic cable from the beta I/O link would have to plug into a spare optic port on my main servo/PSU drive which only has one optic port (being used by the 3 axes)

Would be nice if I could swap out the logic board for one that has it, but I'm sure there's no way that would work either.

An i/o link drive does not use FSSB/fiber optic.
It communicates using I/O link. So it would be hooked to your fanuc I/O string.
Of course custom logic would need to be written.
The easier way would be to use a tsudacoma package, and control it through m-codes for indexing or RS232 for table execution.

[MaxWeber]

Thinking I could use a Galil single axis control box with a stepper motor and build a custom rotary:
DMC-3x01x | Galil

Drawing inspiration from RCaffin https://www.cnczone.com/forums/linea...gineering.html

[MaxWeber]

Well this is an interesting development, apparently my ladder has everything needed for a 4th axis. Now they're checking my parameters. More to come...

[MaxWeber]

Ok Here's another (sad) update. The Mate control won't do simultaneous 4th (pretty much expected that) even though the ladder has everything present. Additionally, the I/O link servo drive is not practical for indexing either (its used for things like pallet changers, tool changers, lathe turrets etc). They basically said it would take alot of monkeying with the ladder to get that to work as a 4th indexer and wouldn't be worth the hassle. The best option for Sharp 2412 owners with a Mate control is a standalone 3rd party motion controller and drive for a rotary indexer controlled by spare M codes via RS232

[bill4807]

Ok Here's another (sad) update. The Mate control won't do simultaneous 4th (pretty much expected that) even though the ladder has everything present. Additionally, the I/O link servo drive is not practical for indexing either (its used for things like pallet changers, tool changers, lathe turrets etc). They basically said it would take alot of monkeying with the ladder to get that to work as a 4th indexer and wouldn't be worth the hassle. The best option for Sharp 2412 owners with a Mate control is a standalone 3rd party motion controller and drive for a rotary indexer controlled by spare M codes via RS232

Yes those applications you reference tool changers, pallet changer are typical for that type of drive. A tool changer is basically an indexer, and true non-simultaneous. I assumed you didn't need that by the way you described it, i use the beta drives for these items and others.
Either way yes extensive ladder work needed.
I vote 3rd party.
Good luck!

[MaxWeber]

Yes those applications you reference tool changers, pallet changer are typical for that type of drive. A tool changer is basically an indexer, and true non-simultaneous. I assumed you didn't need that by the way you described it, i use the beta drives for these items and others.
Either way yes extensive ladder work needed.
I vote 3rd party.
Good luck!

Yeah I think that sounds like a fun project. I'd like to build an indexer with a high quality reduction gear (cross roller bearings?) and servo controlled by mach 3 software. The side effect would be saving a little cash too ;-)

[rodney247]

Indexer manufacturer

https://www.indexdesignscnc.com/

[MaxWeber]

Indexer manufacturer

https://www.indexdesignscnc.com/

Yes thanks for bumping this thread and checking in!

I basically went from having a good chunk of free time with my old job to almost zero free time with a new job about a month after I started this thread :lol

So a homebrew 4th axis is out of the question, but the index designs 5th axis is now in play!

They use a standalone controller that has a number of options available for how it's run.

I'd like to keep running my programs natively from PCMCIA memory card (2GB) and send M code indexer signals via RS-232, but it sounds like I might not be able to split I/O between two channels like that. I saw some discussion on this forum about a potential set of parameters that could accomplish this, but I don't think they ever got it working. So that leaves me with running the entire program from the indexer controller and drip feeding my CNC from the serial port. It honestly sounds like a sub-optimal configuration, but am I just being biased against it? Does anyone else have an opinion about it?

[MaxWeber]

The parameters in question are:

0020 - I/O CHANNEL: Selection of an input/output device or selection of input
device in the foreground

0021 - Setting of the output device in the foreground

0022 - Setting of the input device in the background

0023 - Setting of the output device in the background

[MaxWeber]

Ok so I think what I mentioned above is correct. Here's a snippet from another forum where a user successfully tries to do what I want to do:

Success!

for anyone attempting this for themselves, i'll outline the params that need to be changed and post my code below.
This allows you to run your main program from the memory card (or another source) and communicate via com port with the indexer.

params
param:110 bit:0 must be 1 This separates the input and output channels, allowing you to use params 21-23
param:21 changed to channel 1 in macro then back to 4 at end. change this to suit.
param:6006 bit:0 must be 1 This allows use of logical expressions in your macro
param:6001 bit:1 must be 1 Leaves leading zeroes as zeroes (instead of a space)
param:6001 bit:4 must be 1 outputs CF after data output (for hardinge controller comms)
param:6001 bit:6 must be 1 Clear custom macro variables 100-149 on reset
param:3404 bit:6 must be 1 prevents end of record alarm when M99 is read

to set up the macro as an M code (I used M50)
1)in mdi mode press offset/settings button, then seting soft key, change parameter write=1
2)change param 3202 bit 4 to 0 to edit 9000 series programs
3)change parameter write back to 0, hit reset
4)if no program in o9020 spot, save program as o9020 in controller memory
5)change parameter write back to 1, then param 3202 bit 4 back to 1, locking 9000 series programs
6)change param 6080 to 50 (or whichever empty M code you are using)
7)change parameter write back to 0, locking parameters

and here's my final code:
when outputting zero with 3 digits before and after the decimal (required by the hardinge controller) you still get 0 (instead of 000.000), hence the homing condition instead of just outputting 000.000

code
(A MACRO TO SIMPLIFY THE USE OF A HARDINGE ROTARY INDEXER)
(CALLS AN 'S' ARGUMENT AS #19)
(USES FIXED ROTARY SPEED OF 300 DEG/SEC. PROGRAM USES ABSOLUTE ANGLES ONLY.)
(-----------------------------------------------)
(USER DEFINED VALUES)
(#19=S) (CALLED VARIABLE. SENT FROM MASTERCAM)
#101=4 (I/O CHANNEL YOURE STARTING FROM)
#102=1 (I/O CHANNEL THAT INDEXER IS CONNECTED TO)
(-----------------------------------------------)
#100=#19

IF[[#100LE360]AND[#100GE0]]GOTO10 (CHECK THAT ANGLE IS POSSIBLE)
#3000=101
N10

G10 L50 (NEW I/O CHANNEL)
N21 R#102
G11

POPEN (OPEN PORT)
DPRNT[] (CLEAR BUFFER)
G04 P64

IF[[#100EQ0]OR[#100EQ360]]GOTO25 (HOME)

DPRNT[XG090] (SET TO ABSOLUTE)
G04 P64
DPRNT[XF300.000] (SET FEEDRATE TO 300)
G04 P64
DPRNT[XS#100[33]] (SET ANGLE TO S ARG)
G04 P64
M12 (FIRE TRIGGER)
G04 P1500
M13 (CANCEL TRIGGER)
DPRNT[]
PCLOS (CLOSE PORT)

G10 L50 (SET IO CHANNEL TO ORIGINAL)
N20 R#101
G11

M99 (END SUBPROGRAM)

(-----------------------------------------------)
(IN CASE OF S=0)

N25

DPRNT[XG088] (GO HOME)
G04 P64
DPRNT[XF300.000] (SET FEEDRATE TO 300)
G04 P64
M12 (FIRE TRIGGER)
G04 P1500
M13 (CANCEL TRIGGER)
DPRNT[]
PCLOS (CLOSE PORT)

G10 L50 (SET IO CHANNEL TO ORIGINAL)
N21 R#101
G11

M99 (END OF SUBPROGRAM)

usage
simply call it as M50 S180 (or whichever angle you want) from within mastercam (i use manual input)

[rodney247]

Here is the manual for the Index Designs TR6 5 axis indexer how to comunicate withe the CNC https://f3fcdf07-1be3-4a20-ae27-66ec...3ef0409221.pdf

[MaxWeber]

Here is the manual for the Index Designs TR6 5 axis indexer how to comunicate withe the CNC https://f3fcdf07-1be3-4a20-ae27-66ec...3ef0409221.pdf

Thanks this is really helpful. You work for index designs? I've been talking with Bob about getting a TR-6 but since I'm a newbie to rotaries I wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into. This document helps clarify things. By the way this manual describes the DNC to CNC process, it doesn't sound all that bad. As long as I'm not going to get a disruption in my current workflow (which has been working fine for years now) using fusion 360 CAM on my fanuc control. I see that the index control modifies the code whenever there's an A or B move, which sounds straightforward. I think I'll give the TR-6 a try as soon as I hear back from Sharp about the M code relays.