[masroor]

Hello! to every body,
I request for help from member of this forum to restast an old KITAMURA KNC-50 cnc lathe lying unused/powered off for more than 3 years. When we tried to restart it now it looks that the PLC ( KOYO-KOSTAC) has lost it memory due to low battries. Please advise how from where I could reprograme it. Please also help me getting operational manuals for this lathe and plc. I will be highly obliged for anr help or advice. Thanks

[Al_The_Man]

You have given very few details of the control, what CNC control etc??
If this is a Koyo PLC you are refering to that has the machine PLC? then you will need the program listing to start with, you would have to get this from the MTB or OEM or retrofitter.
I believe you can obtain the PC software for programming the Koyo from their site.
Al.

[masroor]

Thank you very much Al,
I will definitly try to explore as per your advice, will inform you about my efforts.
More details: this is an KITAMURA KNC-50 CNC lathe with 2TA Fanuc controll, plc KOYO's SR-20. Can you be more specific about the search, is there any suggestion regarding the operational manuals. Thanks & regards

[Al_The_Man]

I think you will find these are KOYO PLC's sold by Automation Direct
http://web4.automationdirect.com/adc...DirectLogic_06
If the machine is older, then the PLC may have to be rplace for a later one.
Al.

[masroor]

Al, thanks for quick responce. The plc is very old but it look all right, need programing. Due to low battries has lost it's memory. I want to try first to program it than will go for later model plc. Any advice about software to reprogram it.
Masroor

[Al_The_Man]

I have never used the Koyo PLC so you may have to google around and/or try Automation Direct.
I believe the later ones use flash rom so they do not have batteries.
Al.

[masroor]

Thanks to for helping me out! Now I can be more specific. This cnc lathe of KITAMURA, model KNC-50 with FANUC control 2T modal A, PLC KOYO-KOSTAC SR-20 an old model a company using this lathe donated to a local techincal school. The lathe was lying unattended for more than 3 years. Upon restarting the battery was low. The battery was changed, may be some student has done some thing with the RAM of PLC. There are two programable ICs on the RAM, one D2764D has still some program the other IC HM6116LP-2 is completly washed. The RAM serial Nr: 841108426. Need parameters for this IC, The KITAMURA USA are unable to help. If any of the member has a lathe can provide parameters I will be highly obliged, just helping the school gratis.
Masroor

[Al_The_Man]

What you have there I believe is a 2764 which is an EEPROM and probabally holds the executive software, do NOT erase this IC.
The other is a 2kx8 ram chip which probabally takes the PLC program, it is probabally OK just has been erased.
I have posted the sheet on it.
You will need the listing of the program to be able to replace it or replicate it in another PLC.
Al.

[masroor]

Thanks Al! you are correct,the 2764 is an EEPROM, The IC HM6116LP-2 is checked alright. what I need to feed some parameters of this lathes (configuration) to this IC, that I only can get from machine buider (they declined) or some user of same model. I request the members of this group if any body ever such lathe or if they could help me getting these parameter I will very obliged. Thanks
Masroor

[Al_The_Man]

I doubt if there are many of these around any more, and if there is, not many will have the PLC listing or the ability to extract it.
You may have to start from scratch with a PLC of your choice and come up with a suitable program.
Many machines of this era had the basic commands in and from the CNC side and the MTB would supply whatever PLC they chose, before PLC/PMC became built in.
The only thing you would need is these basic I/O lines in and out of the CNC.
A simple example is you would have one line in that is cycle start, the PLC program would condition this signal before inputting into the CNC, such as looking at overtravels and control on etc,etc.
The trickiest will be the M,S & T code conditioning.
Al.

[NC Cams]

We ran into a similar problem with a Fanuc 5T.

The machine parameters were machine specific and these were developed at the request of the machine tool retrofitter - the outfit who bought the 5T control system from Fanuc.

In our case, the "software" was burned into the EEPROM's and, luckily, we had the parameters written down from the machines. HOWEVER, and this is where it got tricky, there were some special parameters that were ONLY spec'd out by the OEM who built the machine. Since the 5T simply drove relays to output a digital code into a relay ladder, just any "software" would not work.

We learned this when we found and salvaged some 5T motherboards - we thought they would plug in and run - not even hardly. We ultimately were able to use the boards by taking known good EEPROMS and copying them from our "good" machine into the EEPROMS on the surplus boards.

IT is truly sad that the OEM "declined" to provide you with parameter information. I wonder if they don't have the info or simply don't want to give it out. Either way, the only way to fix your situtation, outside of getting the info from the OEM, is to hope that you can find someone with an identical machine and get a copy of parameters that will work.

Good luck in your search.

[Al_The_Man]

Either way, the only way to fix your situtation, outside of getting the info from the OEM, is to hope that you can find someone with an identical machine and get a copy of parameters that will work.

Actually all may not necessarily be lost, as he is referring to the PLC/PMC or machine control, some early Fanuc/General Numeric models did not supply a PMC/PLC with the control, it was up to the MTB to supply and program.
All you really need is the CNC I/O lines which are dedicated to a certain function, These may still be obtainable, and then all that is needed is to hook any up any make of PLC and program the necessary logic, anyone that is familiar with the PMC side or machine control side, and can program a PLC, should be able to accomplish this fairly easily.
Now of course Fanuc provide a PMC, but it is blank, and the OEM is still responsible for the programming it.
Al.

[stustev]

Have a look at

www.linuxcnc.org

This would be a very good learning project for the students. They could do the retrofit and then make parts.
All at the right price. The software is free. The computer can be very cheap. A parallel port could possibly have enough I/O's. If not a second parallel port card is very cheap.
Stuart

[NC Cams]

Lathe retrofits are NOT plug and play projects and just might a bit much for the student.

Even seasoned pro's have had "issues" with professionaly sourced lathe retrofits - especially old, machines whre you try to re-use the factory fitted servo motors.

Having tried to look into doing a lathe retrofit on a servo equipped Fanuc 5T lathe, I can say that it is NOT as easily doable as a mill retrofit.

Do a "lathe retrofit" search on CNC Zone and you'll see some of the less than satisfying experiences that others have in this area. In all fairness, there are folks who have had good luck retrofitting lathes. I just haven't run across any who did so on machines like those I was looking to retrofit (servo fitted, late 70's/early 80's dated Fanucs)

[stustev]

From the tone of these posts it looks to me like a retrofit will be just as easy if not easier than trying to get the original plc and ic's working. At least there is current support for a retrofit.

[Al_The_Man]

From the tone of these posts it looks to me like a retrofit will be just as easy if not easier than trying to get the original plc and ic's working. .

Not neccessarily, it depends on the current condition and options the lathe has.
Remember all the motor integration and tuning will be done. The operator Panel should all be there with Handwheels and features.
He may not get all the options he has in the machine at present if going with a a parallel port controller.
If I read his post right, All it needs is a suitably sized PLC, these can be had on ebay for 100~200
It just requires someone with a little expertise in the PLC area.
As that great statesman G.W.B. once said, 'It's Not Rocket Surgery'
AL.

[stustev]

I am just trying to suggest options.

[Al_The_Man]

I think that is what we are all doing, pointing out the pros & Cons.
Al.