[toothandnail]

We have been running 2 1100's for about 8 years now, the CS from Tormach has bee steadily going down hill.
The last straw was last week, kept getting an error on startup, not only can you not talk to anybody - email only - they also refuse to answer any trouble shooting questions unless you change to their latest software.
Software has nothing to do with the error or parts to fix the problem. Took 3 days of downtime, and research - tracking down and going back to the mfg of the parts.
We will be actively looking for replacement machines, hate to do it but not going to support a company that tries to coerce you to buy something just for the sake of stealing your $$

[kstrauss]

We will be actively looking for replacement machines, hate to do it but not going to support a company that tries to coerce you to buy something just for the sake of stealing your $$

Perhaps I misunderstand your issue but are you referring to "purchasing" PathPilot? Tormach software upgrades have always been free. In my 8 or so years I've only paid for the Mesa card and the cost of the USB drive for the upgrade to PathPilot 2.0 from PP v1.xx. If you are running two machines then spending $25 to get the pair current seems a rather small price to pay. You say that your machines are 8 years old. Have you paid for 7 years of annual maintenance contracts times two? Get a maintenance quote from Haas before you jump!

[popspipes]

Switching to PathPilot is the best thing thats happened as far as software is concerned.

CS is fine here, I called expecting the worst, and they called back in an hour or so and the problem was resolved, they are working from home now and thats a real inconvenience I would imagine.

[metalmayhem]

Having to upgrade software in order to get help from support is bs . If they sold the machines with that software then thats the machine they need to help with . Count yourself lucky they even bothered to answer you

When I was considering buying machines I emailed a couple questions , the next day support called me . After buying the machines the only way I got answers from support was by complaining to the sales rep who sold me the machines . One question was replied to a month after I asked . This was long before covid so there are no excuses . I am not at all impressed with support . Supports knowledge of the software they sell is also questionable . I asked if g52 is functional since it is in linuxcnc , the answer was a flat no , First thing I tried on firing up my mill was g52 , sure enough it works .

I like my tormach machines and I'll buy more . Sales is fast at sending parts , I can troubleshoot my own problems and I have zero use for those pecker heads in support .

Problem is support is crap for most machine manufacturers unless a guy gets into the big buck Jap machines . Haas support sucks , at least it does locally

My novakon was down so I placed an order ,. Nearly a week later I contacted them by phone to ask what was happening with my order , he said "what order" , he never even looked at it . Then I was informed that it would be at least a month before he'd have access to his parts . That turned into months .
For the most part depending on who you deal with things can only get worse , unless you have really deep pockets

[kstrauss]

Having to upgrade software in order to get help from support is bs . If they sold the machines with that software then thats the machine they need to help with .

Your comment is silly and I assume that you are joking. In 2002 I bought a Dell desktop with Windows XP installed and still runs XP. Do you think that Dell should still handle support calls on it? Many of their support staff were wearing diapers when it was sold. BTW, it runs 24/7 and is still working fine after 18 years!

[jwatte]

If they sold the machines with that software then thats the machine they need to help with

That's not how it works with software -- the support for software *is* the upgrades. If the fix is in the latest version, the support response for "I am seeing a problem" is going to be "the fix is in the latest version" anyway. And if the fix isn't in the latest version, any possible future fix would be in ... an upcoing latest version.

If you care about the ability to get support and fixes for your device, you must stay up to date with software updates, and live with whatever disruptions that causes. There simply is no other way. Software has changed the world, for both better and worse!

[metalmayhem]

wtf is so silly . tormach used mach up to a couple yrs ago , I'm assuming that the op's software is mach since I don't know of tormach using any other software . But , hey I don't doubt support was in diapers then , I'm sure half still are

Since the op wasn't clear on what the issue is then it's easy to assume it is mach , otherwise they'd have suggested buying a new computer vs upgrading software

[kstrauss]

wtf is so silly . tormach used mach up to a couple yrs ago ,

Your idea of "a couple of years" differs from mine. I just checked my records and I received PP1.0 + Mesa 5i25 on 17 Feb 2015 or almost 6 years ago. Most CNC software vendors require a maintenance contract costing mucho dollars to even provide support for a year old product..

[metalmayhem]

fine nit pick it , more than a couple yrs , I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of their sold machines are still running mach

I never seen a maintenance contract offered when I bought my mills . Obviously tormach has no obligation after the 1 year warranty is up . Good support equals repeat customers , it's just good business . I have numerous people who bought my products second hand and I give them support , even on discontinued products . Why ? it's good business and they usually come back to buy new products .
It's no skin off tormachs ass to answer a few questions for the guy even if it doesn't help , I had problems after roughly a month and they wouldn't reply to numerous emails so obviously they feel no obligations at all after a sale , yet they have support guys

[toothandnail]

I could understand if it was a software issue, it wasn't, it was electrical. Requiring a software purchase before answering a couple of questions to diagnose a problem is BS
Maybe we're running our business all wrong, guess I should require a monthly "service" fee with every firearm we build, or part we make.

[nitewatchman]

This has not remotely been my experience with Tormach.

Recently had a Drive burn off the connector (common issue), called and had two spares in route Next Day that afternoon.

gary

I could understand if it was a software issue, it wasn't, it was electrical. Requiring a software purchase before answering a couple of questions to diagnose a problem is BS
Maybe we're running our business all wrong, guess I should require a monthly "service" fee with every firearm we build, or part we make.

[metalmayhem]

Recently had a Drive burn off the connector (common issue), called and had two spares in route Next Day that afternoon.

I've had the same thing when ordering parts and they were super fast . Getting warranty parts through support was another story , it took weeks and when I complained to the right person I had new parts on my doorstep the next day if memory serves me correct , otherwise it was the following day . I'm not keen on their support but the rest of the company is on the ball

[mountaindew]

Years ago when I was getting ready to buy my first machine. The deciding factor on what to buy was shown to me right here on cnczone.
It was easy to see there were a number of vary active users of this tool system right here and all were willing to help with a problem. I often make stuff on weekends and late at night.
Knowing this I figured tech support was not going to be around. And even if it was available. I found phone/email tech support to be hard to follow and resolve issues anyway.
On the other hand doing some basic research here. I concluded these were good machines and there were active everyday users here to answer questions with problems. the key is "everyday user"
I don't know if Tormach understands the value in this format of support, but I do. A quick search here often returns a number of threads about almost any problem you could have.
True there were a number of people on these forums for one reason or another trying to misinform or argue about silly things like wd40 or mrr.
But for the most part you can get some good info here to identify the problem then call Tormach for parts.

Imho Tormach should create and manage a private user support forum for people to ask and find answers about the machines and tools.
Many companies have them to help users maintain their product.
Makes it easy for a user to search for and find answers to a problem and or post a question and not rely on tech support to repeat the same info over and over when you do get them on the phone.

What say you?

[kstrauss]

Years ago when I was getting ready to buy my first machine. The deciding factor on what to buy was shown to me right here on cnczone.
It was easy to see there were a number of vary active users of this tool system right here and all were willing to help with a problem. I often make stuff on weekends and late at night.
Knowing this I figured tech support was not going to be around. And even if it was available. I found phone/email tech support to be hard to follow and resolve issues anyway.
On the other hand doing some basic research here. I concluded these were good machines and there were active everyday users here to answer questions with problems. the key is "everyday user"
I don't know if Tormach understands the value in this format of support, but I do. A quick search here often returns a number of threads about almost any problem you could have.
True there were a number of people on these forums for one reason or another trying to misinform or argue about silly things like wd40 or mrr.
But for the most part you can get some good info here to identify the problem then call Tormach for parts.

Imho Tormach should create and manage a private user support forum for people to ask and find answers about the machines and tools.
Many companies have them to help users maintain their product.
Makes it easy for a user to search for and find answers to a problem and or post a question and not rely on tech support to repeat the same info over and over when you do get them on the phone.

What say you?

Agreed! The dilution of the knowledge base here coupled with the extremely poor search capabilities is why I am saddened by the establishment and apparent success of several Facebook groups. Perhaps a Tormach sanctioned group could reverse this undesirable trend. Such a forum would have to be open to all postings including those from whiners who are disappointed that their new machine can't hold 0.000001 tolerances. If a Tormach person frequented the forum with answers they could both reduce their support costs and get a better feel for what users want and their problems.

[Fenichel]

Agreed! The dilution of the knowledge base here coupled with the extremely poor search capabilities is why I am saddened by the establishment and apparent success of several Facebook groups. Perhaps a Tormach sanctioned group could reverse this undesirable trend. Such a forum would have to be open to all postings including those from whiners who are disappointed that their new machine can't hold 0.000001 tolerances. If a Tormach person frequented the forum with answers they could both reduce their support costs and get a better feel for what users want and their problems.

I also agree. For a model of what such a forum might be, look at https://forum.pjrc.com/forums/3-Tech...-amp-Questions.

[kstrauss]

Looks good but the easiest approach would be to simply use CNCzone and ensure that Tormach people are openly present (at least one currently monitors this forum). By using CNCzone things would seem more vendor neutral and many Tormach users are already aware of this site.

Thanks for the link. It provided an answer to a Teensy question that had been puzzling me!

[Bob La Londe]

In the distant past vendors were encouraged to participate and many had group moderator privileges which of course got abused. They are still encouraged to participate, but not having control may be a reason some don't.

[mountaindew]

Imho Tormach should create and manage a private user support forum for people to ask and find answers about the machines and tools.
Many companies have them to help users maintain their product.
Makes it easy for a user to search for and find answers to a problem and or post a question and not rely on tech support to repeat the same info over and over when you do get them on the phone.

What say you?

On topic of thread!

Tormach appears to be working on this!

[metalmayhem]

it's easy to create a forum and it's cheap if not free to add to an existing domain . Simple machines forum is clean and professional looking . It also has numerous plugins including a low cost spam filter that keeps out most bots . I've been using it for yrs and it's trouble free
Facebook groups are killing most forums these days , but the problem with facebook it is is not necessarily private .

On a forum a guy can use any name , I've been a member of this site since 2005 but you wouldn't know it by looking at the date under my name . Facebook on the other hand allows for people to see your profile and what you are doing in everyday life (if your a poster) . A profile can be made private but most people don't want to make a profile private just to join a group . I've looked at the 440 user group and could have contributed many times but I don't exactly need guys who may be starving for possible business opportunities to see what I do for a living . I could create a fake profile but thats more trouble than it's worth .

Cnczone is great for info but as mentioned too much is diluted and the search is terrible . I'm not aware of tormach support using this forum and maybe they do or don't , but if they don't then I can't see them bothering with their own forum , otherwise they'd have done so already

[kstrauss]

i
Cnczone is great for info but as mentioned too much is diluted and the search is terrible . I'm not aware of tormach support using this forum and maybe they do or don't , but if they don't then I can't see them bothering with their own forum , otherwise they'd have done so already

I agree with everything that you wrote about Facebook and I almost never participate in the Tormach related groups there.

In my opinion the CNCzone search is not great but it is vastly better than Facebook's search. Based on private email conversations (names omitted to protect the guilty) at least two Tormach people regularly read this forum but insofar as I know they never contribute.