[CyborgCNC]

Hello all,

To promote my new guitar building videos, I have a site which I recently created. THere is not much there, but I will be posting much more over the next few weeks.

Have a look, and let me know what you think:

http://www.cncguitar.org:7171

I would also be more than glad to post some of the work others have done here, so that we can all benefit.

[mvaughn]

Looks interesting, when will the gallery be available?

Why are you using a non-standard port like 7171 ?

[CyborgCNC]

Soon as I get some time, I will post pictures of my current and past guitar projects, all done in Solidworks and Mastercam.

(Damn work... :-0 )

I am using a non-standard port because the server is sitting behind a NATed firewall, which does not allow 80 on the inbound (security).

[Alnico]

CyborgCNC, 2 questions about time...

About how long did it take to build the CNC machine?

And about how long did it take from the start of the guitar design on Solidworks to the finished piece on the CNC machine?



(did you do the Solidworks design after you built the CNC machine, or concurrently?)

[CyborgCNC]

I build the CNC machine first. it took me about 1 month to finish, and I was working about 2 hours or so at night.

After it was done, it took me about a week to tune it, and then basically learn how to use it with mach3. Instead of a router, I placed a pen for the spindle, and I created tool paths and carvings, having the pen basically draw them on paper. This really allowed me to learn how a CNC machine works, and also to fine tune my positioning and referencing. I also was able to tune it to the point where I was getting about 30IPM for cutting/drawing, and for the x and y I can rapid at 45IPM!

After this, I started to basically carve wood, and doing signs, numbers letters etc. The carvings where coming out awesome. So then I started thinking about building something more from it, and a guitar project was born.

This started another learning process, primarily centered on how to model the guitar in solidworks. This took about another month or so, and finally when I had it, proceeded to machine and create the instrument (video of the guitar being cut is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3-P606PO0U)

So for times:

About 2 months total for building and tuning the machine.

1 month design of the guitar(Mostly trying to decide WHAT to build...so many choices...)

3 days for cutting (doing about 1 hour at the time...pocketing, then flipping the body, and finally profiling it). I guess I could have done the whole thing at once, but my time is limited.

4 months for finishing, sanding, tuning, wiring etc of the guitar (the cutting process is easy, the finishing is hard! :-)..hope I had a machine to do that! )

THanks!

[Boots]

No offence but your Router is slower than Death. You should be cutting at around 400 ipm and about 16,000 to 18,000 RPM. Other wise you will never be able to compete. Nice machine for a Hobie-ist but not for making any Money.

[CyborgCNC]

And who said I was going to go and make money with it? Do you think I was going to go into building guitars for a living like the Gibson Factory?

:-)

The guitars which I build with this machine so far have turned out incredible. I have learned CNC on my own, and build a machine on MY OWN with common hardware store items. The learning experience has been absolutely great, and when I want to get serious, I might consider a 50K investment in a machine that will do 400 IPM...

There are many here who are just that "hobby-ists" and a machine like this, with the learning experience that comes along with it, in MY HUMBLE opinion, is great.

Until then my friend, I am quite happy!

:-)

[Switcher]

I have to agree, the results your getting with your cnc are just that, incredible!

I watched your video 3 times, great work.

How much do you have invested in the cnc machine?



.

[CyborgCNC]

Thanks!

I was quite amazed at how well it actually carved the Chamfers! They are a flowline tool-path in Mastercam (my instructional video will show these). It was also great to see that I can flip the body over, and reference my machine to acheive the same on the other side. if it was not spot-on, obvisously the chamfers would have been all in the wrong places.

The machine must have cost me about 200 bucks or so for the material (tubing, wood, screws, etc). Maybe a bit more, since I bought a little at a time, and they can add up.

The controller, is all xylotex, and their 3 axis kit was about 350 or so (I think), and then I bought about 150 more in parts from Mouser (Enclosure, fan, etc).

The router is a porter cable trim (about 100) and I also bought a break out board for my parallel port (125). So let's see

200+350+150+100+125 = 925 (so let's round that to 1K or so).

The software, is a different story (the laptop is an old dell I had laying around from work...so it was free).

Mach3 was about 160, and I was able to get a student discount for Solidworks and mastercam, but they still were NOT cheap!

so figure another 1500 for those (got from here:
http://www.academicsuperstore.com/mf...FQILPwodzGauCg)

Grand total 2500 or so, give or take.

When compared to JUST purchasing a CNC which usually start at like 5-10K, NOT BAD I would say!

The learning experience, like I said, has been amazing.

Here is a (no so good) pic of the finished product...will get some better photos and post.

:-)

[rlrhett]

And who said I was going to go and make money with it? Do you think I was going to go into building guitars for a living like the Gibson Factory?

:-)

The guitars which I build with this machine so far have turned out incredible. I have learned CNC on my own, and build a machine on MY OWN with common hardware store items. The learning experience has been absolutely great, and when I want to get serious, I might consider a 50K investment in a machine that will do 400 IPM...

There are many here who are just that "hobby-ists" and a machine like this, with the learning experience that comes along with it, in MY HUMBLE opinion, is great.

Until then my friend, I am quite happy!

:-)

Boy this seems to come up a lot. For all you starry eyed dreamers out there, once again please understand that it is HIGHLY unlikely that you will make money on guitars. Gibson has a CNC bandsaw, for heaven's sake, that cuts 15 blanks at a time! Warmoth, MightyMite, and endless eBayers with blanks from China have flooded the market for just bodies. And you had better have something pretty spectacular to compete with Guitar Centers' perpetual sale on "real" Gibson Les Pauls.

Don't get me started talking about the cost of wood for the small producer, either.

Some people make custom guitars to supplement their guitar repair shop, or the music store, or to sell to a small group of local customers because they are retired, receive disability, etc. Someone reading this will probably insist that they make $200,000 a year making their custom guitars, but I seriously doubt it. The number of people making a real living (not supplemented by an inheritance, retirement or disability) is VERY small. Most of them are building acoustic guitars precisely because their complexity makes them much harder to successfully mass produce. It takes a true craftsman's touch to make a quality acoustic guitar, and therefore can command $10,000 or more if made by a master.

Lutherie is an incredible and rewarding hobby. I consider it the pinnacle of woodworking. Let's face it, you can carve an eagle, make a table or make a guitar. Which one is going to get the most oohs and aahs? CNC for hobbyist is also an amazing pastime. Combine the two, what is not to like!!! But for 99.99% of us, this is not going to be a business. Sorry.

[CyborgCNC]

You Hit the nail ON THE HEAD on that one RlrHett!!!

I could not agree with you more!

The reward of first building my own machine, learning all the software to model and machine a guitar, and then "actually" making the guitar, is worth far more than me going to a guitar center and buying an instrument.

I could have bought 5-6 instruments with the money I invested in wood, stepper motors, software etc (and not to mention my time).

There is nothing like looking at the guitar I build, and then playing it, and saying "I made it, with a CNC machine I build..." In addition, I now understand guitars at a whole different level...

I have people astounded that I actually did that, and their jaw drops when I show them my solidworks model, and say "See? My computer told that router how to create this guitar body..."

You sir, are SPOT ON!

[mvaughn]

Thanks!

I was quite amazed at how well it actually carved the Chamfers! They are a flowline tool-path in Mastercam (my instructional video will show these).

I'm impressed with your machine cyborg. True, there are some guys out there with machines that can cut at 400ipm but they didn't build them with hand tools. My machine is one that only cuts at 30ipm and I'm ecstatic that it works at all. Congrats on your achievment!

Can you explain your method for indexing your guitar body when you flip it or will that be covered in your instructional video.

[CyborgCNC]

Yes, I do cover that in my video, in quite an extensive detail.

Basically, I create geometry in Solidworks BEFORE going into mastercam, which helps me to orient my stock "exactly" where I want it. I then move my construction and tools planes to THIS geometry, and it is usually spot on.

The process involves indexing the body with holes. I drill a hole on the stock, and use the guitar volume/tone holes for the rest. once you index this hole, and your tool is right over it, I have found the positioning to be VERY precise.

When you flip over, I just re-orient my tool planes in mastercam, and it is again spot on.

[luthier]

Having been building guitars for about 25 years on a part time basis, it now seems that every small town has somebody that " builds" guitars. The guy who bolts a few parts together "builds" them and the guy who makes one from scratch " builds" them. This massive increase is due to primarily to the information that is now available and the coolness of the skill.
I think your best bet is to find a niche market that nobody else is really involved in. I use my CNC to do repetitive routing tasks that I used to do by hand with patterns. I cut solid body construction time in half. I use my CNC to do things that I normally wouldn't have even attempted on my own. I still incorporate handwork to make each item unique. I totally agree with what's been said about making big bucks making guitars. A couple of guys have people on waiting lists for a year or more. The others have to do repair work to help pay the bills. It sure it fun though.

[Alnico]

CyborgCNC, Great work! 2 more questions if you dont mind....

1. Did you also build a neck to go with this? (the website sorta mentions it) and did you also build, radius, and slot a fretboard with your machine?

2. Any plans to do any kind of Les Paul/PRS-style carved top? (for me its been the most difficult thing to do WELL, because it requires thinking it terms of 3D surfaces.. its no wonder that most folks only do "slab" bodies.. a carved top is not easy to model) It looks like you were at least thinking about doing some kind contouring from this gif on your website, but none of those ended up on the final result?

[CyborgCNC]

Yes, I know what you mean. Look at these pictures, do they match what you want?

-The neck model is included with my videos, and I also have a 15 minute video on how to build it (and modify it off course)

-BOTH of these models are included, as well as the one from the image you mention, and my warlock. ALL of these guitar are BUILD already, and I will have more pics soon.

-I show you 2 carve methods, and obvisouly you can easily modify them. So these models are both shown in their OWN videos on how they can be carved. I use a method which included solids, and surfaces, and also cutting with surfaces.

(click on the images to see the rotation....sorry about the neck one..should have slowed it down a bit)

How is that?

[Alnico]

Excellent work! It'll be interesting to see the pics.... and you started this whole project, what, at the beginning of the summer?

The guitar in the third pic looks like you did a big chamfer around the edge. OK.

But I'm curious about the one in the first pic... is that more like a LP, where it curves down all the way around, or is it more like A Fender Aerodyne where the top is "radiused" but still (pretty much) retains the same height down the center?

[CyborgCNC]

Yes, that is the look I was going for in the look of the guitar. I always wanted to create one which had the WHOLE body carved, not just around the edges.

That also is NOT a big chamfer...you can not really achieve looks like this by just chamfering. it is basically a whole bunch of surfaces, or surfaces created to carve the body that way. Again, all this, and all 3 guitar models are in my videos, and explained step by step.

thanks!

[PhillyCyberJoe]

Hey CyborgCNC,
Thanks for putting these posts up on the zone and also for your website. I just found this thread. I too am very interested in guitarbuilding using CNC. I have one DIY machine now, but currently working on another for greater capacity and speed.

I really want to get into solid body, carved top electric guitars and to date I have built two acoustics which I am thrilled with. I'm sure that the debate will rage on with purist regarding the use of CNC and luthiery, but for me it's just fun to consolidate all of the things that I like to do as a hobby. I make 'um and my son (who is an excellent guitarist) takes 'um.

I'll be watching closely how your site evolves and hopefully I'll be able to pick up on some tips on how to do solid bodies.

Again, thanks for the effort.

Joe

[CyborgCNC]

THanks Joe!

Yes, I have read many debates on using cnc, but people think that a CNC machine will just product a guitar are dead wrong! :-)

It will "cut" a guitar, but that is only 25% of the work! Then the "real" work begins with sanding, finishing, electronics, set-up need I go on? :-)

The beauty of CNC is that it allows one to achieve precision NOT possible with using templates and a hand router. It is this precision in my mind that will make the instrument sound better, but I understant the arguments about "uniqueness" to sound.

For me, it was a VERY satisfying experience to watch a machine which I build, produce something which only a few hours back, was just on my computer screen! Once I saw this, I was hooked, and have been hooked! it is awesome!

Well, thanks again, and all the details are on my videos. I am sorry I am not making these available for free, but I have a huge amount of time vested in them, and they are very detailed.

peace....