[reeftoker75]

I am looking for help or ideas for a dust collector . I am using the K2 router mount for a porter cable 892 router. Anyone have any ideas ,pictures, or suggestions let me know.

[wcarrothers1]

try http://www.wynnenv.com/ for filters and he has links to
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm for build plans and stuff.

b .

[OzarkCNC]

I built a collector from bill Pentz's design using 2 garbage cans and some clear plastic.

See it in action here: http://www.youtube.com/v/5ar6-zpzeYE

The biggest hurdle will be the blower motor. But in my application, the pplaner had a strong enough one that I didn't need anything else. But I also have a 1HP mini-dust collector motor(no pic) that I can use as an intermediate. They are cheap enough for CNC since you wont be pulling big chunks through the squirrel cage.

On the other hand, if you aare going to the trouble, you might as well get a bigger motor/impeller drive and make it a whole shop collector and do it right.

OzarkCNC

[tahustvedt]

I made shoe for my K2 kress mount. It slips on and off in seconds for easy toolk changing and works well. Should be easy to make for your mount as well.

A little video of the dust shoe going on and off:
http://www.enrarot.net/videos/cnc/cnc01.wmv

[JerryFlyGuy]

I'm looking at setting up my own dust collector. I've got a 600cfm unit w/ a 3micron filter attached to it. I fired it up the other day and was suprised at how much pressure and flow in going through this thing!

My question is, how well does the dryer ducting work w/ a system like this? I'm having trouble getting my hands on the "real deal" dust collector hose.

I expect the dryer ducting will collapse and kink easier. But if I support it evenly will it do? I'd planned to zip tie it to the outside edge of my Echain and then mount the actual collector and bag on the back side of my gantry. It'd only have to suck through ~ 15-20 ft of hose then..


Curious..

Jerry

[JerryFlyGuy]

Ok.. so moving along.. I've got my dust collector up and working. I did end up finding some dust collector hose and have been using that.. it all works pretty well.. but I plan to improve it w/ a cyclone [Al-la Bill Pentz] but above that I'd like to improve on it by adding a second filteration unit for the super small particles that will get past the cyclone.. I've a 3mo old son and don't want him being affected by my hobbies in the garage..

Has anyone ever experimented w/ water/wet seperators in the dust collection world? Any experiances anyone would like to share? I've got a few idea's but would like to hear what others have to say on the matter..

Thnks

Jerry

[Geof]

...Has anyone ever experimented w/ water/wet seperators in the dust collection world?...

Go ahead and experiment; I want to know how well it works. A few years ago I bought a big woodworking router and had thought about building a water curtain dust collector. I never did build the collector, things did not work out and I sold the machine after less than a year. But I have often wondered if the wet collection was feasible. One little bit of information I do have that could be pertinent (if correct) is that paper fibers suspended in water at greater than a 2% fiber content is starting to get to viscous to pump. If this is correct you may need a very large flow of water.

Have you ever thought about electrostatic collection?

[JerryFlyGuy]

Hey Geof..
I've wondered about E-static but don't know all the in's and out's [well don't know that about water either but it's easier to understand ] so figured I'd try water.. I'm thinking some form of a cyclone w/ multiple nozzles [windshield washer type from the local wreckers-- 5gpm would be great] shooting perp. into the in coming stream.. Lots of pressure and volume and then some form of a fiber filter to pull any airborne water back out of the air before it's discharged back into the shop.. The problem w/ all this is the whole thing gets rather large and cumbersome.. but I don't want to have any dust floating around.. my current bag unit is great for getting 100% of the larger stuff and alot less of the finer stuff.. I seem to be a bit suseptable to the dust as I get migrain's after running it for a day..

Not fun.. I'd rather NOT expose my son to it if at ALL possible..

I know of a fella who made a canister and 1/2 filled it w/ water.. he then hooked a shop vac to the top/lid and put the dust hose in the side.. inside the canister, the hose connected to a down spout which was perforated below the water level.. he claimed it worked like a hot dam.. but I've never seen it in action.. I don't think I could get the pressure I'd need to put the air through the water.. hence the need for some form of a spray system..

Waddiya think..??

Jerry

[Geof]

...I seem to be a bit suseptable to the dust as I get migrain's after running it for a day.....

Um, this is distinctly not good. I think right now you should check into some activated charcoal filter systems to take organic vapors out of the air. Formaldehyde vapors and other nasty stuff can be released from MDF.

[Regnar]

Just some suggestions but you could always pump the dirty filtered air outside the garage, sorta like a dryer vent. You would need to enclose your filters into a box but that shoudnt be to hard and wouldnt take up much more room. Wind, Rain should do most of the clean up.


You will notice that even with all the filters and cyclone and pumping it outside you still get dust. This comes from what the dust collector cannot pick up or what gets away during cutting. So I would also suggest something like this http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...t=1,42401&ap=1

[ger21]

You will notice that even with all the filters and cyclone and pumping it outside you still get dust. This comes from what the dust collector cannot pick up or what gets away during cutting. So I would also suggest something like this http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...t=1,42401&ap=1

Once the dust is in the air it's too late. If that filter is sucking in dust, then you're breathing it at the same time. The best option is to collect the dust at the source, which imo requires more than the 600cfm being talked about here. At least 1100-1200cfm.

[randyf1965]

What about a water filter like the drywall sanding system? Basically a bucket with a lid, attach a shopvac to one fitting (above the water line) and the sanding pad and hose to the other fitting (end of the line below the water line.

Vacuum in the bucket pulls the air thru the pad (has holes) down the hose and filters the air and dust thru the water.

I use it when finishing drywall for those never ending household projects and the filter on my little 2 gallon shop vac stays pretty clean (though depending on the amount of dust some makes it thru the water still dry as it balls up in water). Was thinking of adding some layers of screening to the water to break up the blobs before they hit the surface. But saw dust should not act the same as drywall compound dust.:rainfro:

[JerryFlyGuy]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys..

Geof, this latest episode has happened while cutting pine.. so I don't think it's a MDF/chemical issue.. [however I don't know what all is in dried pin wood] I suspect it's just the dust but then who know's.. my mother has this same problem when it comes to dust.. so I think I may have inherited it..

Regnar, I've thought about that but there is one slight problem.. I live in Canada.. and from april till about now.. that would work find.. the rest of the year I wouldn't be able to run it as the heating cost would break me in short order.. I'm w/ Gerry on this one.. I've got to kill this at the source.. I'm sure that a higher cfm unit would be better.. to a point.. but for now it's what I've got to work with.. I do hope to expand on the system as I learn how to make it work.. I suspect that I'll end up w/ one of those Clear view systems eventually but I want to see what effect some form of a water seperator would have on the dust..

I like Randy's idea of pumping air in below water and letting it bubble out.. I'm just not sure I'd have the pressure from my unit to force air in below the water level.. I'm thinking that it'd need to be at least 10" below the surface.. and then like you say a [or several]perforated plate[s] to break up the bubbles a bit.. I don't expect any saw-dust at this point as that will be removed by the cyclone up stream... it will just be super fine dust at this point.. who know's.. maybe it would work.. and if I combine it all w/ my spraying system.. I may just get 99.99% of the dust..

I'm ok most of the time in dusty environment's but in the last couple weekends.. I've been running the machine w/out ANY dust collection stuff.. and I've really noticed the impact... When I was running it w/ the dust collector earlier.. it worked very well.. I didn't get too many headache's or anything but each time I changed a tool things didn't fit too well and it was alot of messing around just to get the dust collector shoe I'd cobbled together, to fit and work. I've designed a new one and am going to machine it here in a few minutes and hopefully I can make it work better for what I need..

In the mean time.. I've got to figure out what the heck to do for a final system.. I've built enough stuff which is WAY more complicated than a dust collection system.. you'd think a guy should able to make a dust collection system that actually worked.. Other than the impeller.. nothing has to be tooo precise.. and I've got a high speed balancer at work so.. even balancing the impeller shouldn't be a problem..

Anyway... we shall see..

Thanks guys!

Jerry

[ger21]

The problem you are going to have is getting the dust at the source. It's fairly easy on flat panels with a brush around the perimeter, but for 3d work, it's tough to get in the right spot where the dust is flying. That's why you need brute force - more cfm. If you can position the pickup close to the source, you can get most of the very fine, lightweight dust. The heavier stuff will fly right by, but that will settle right away.

But all the video I've seen of big gantrys and 5 axis machines usually shows poor to no dust collection, probably due to the difficulty.

[JerryFlyGuy]

Your right Gerry, Bill Pentz recommends that 1000+cfm w/ 6" piping.. this is a bit of a problem as all of the dust collection equipment [including piping] I've come across locally is all 4"..

Anyway, the system I had does work great for flat stuff.. I'm just doing my first 3D tool path right now and we'll see how it collects on that.. a nice stiff plastic [clear] skirt helps but it's not an end all solution.. I suspect I'll get to a 14-1500cfm unit here but for now I'm going to experiment w/ the unit I have.. I'd like to see how much pressure [inch's of water] it's currently delivering.. this will tell me if it's going to be a problem to create a submerged [water] filter canister or if I'm limited to some form of a spray system..

Jerry

[Regnar]

Ger I agree with you too the he would need a larger dust collector and that collection at the source is key.

Without a dought if dont contain dust its going to spread. I was just offering an alternative because if your like me you dont just have a cnc router. I have a tablesaw, mitersaw, handheld router, random orbatial all that are hooked up to the dust collector but dust still floats around the garage. I made my own out a central air blower and pretty much the same filters. Does it elimanate all the dust in the garage. No but it does elimanate all the dust from getting into the house. Where your 3mnth old is. If you are worried about you own health here is another alternative http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx...e=details#tabs

[James Marshall]

Hi guys! I have some thoughts and input for you. Water filtration is just going to fill you'er shop with humidity. I live in Alaska and can not afford to exhaust my air outside. I have built the cyclone from Bill's site and it does an incredible job. It is a 22" diamater unit and I am using a Sheldon's airfoil impeller with a 2 hp motor. With the galv trash can it is 9' tall!!!! A small price to pay for clean air. All piping and flex is 6". Pipe is 6" sewer and drain pipe from the plumbing supply shops or Lowes. I have not installed my filter bank yet, but amazingly there is a minute amount of dust that is expelled from the exhaust. I know that even this small amount of dust is important but is better than nothing. I can not stress enough how amazingly well this unit sepparates the chips and dust from the air. I have noticed that MDF gives off the most dust, were as with real wood the exhaust is almost 100% clean.(table saw) My plan for my cnc is to down draft, or side draft the dust into the base of the cabinet that the cnc will be on top of.

Good luck!!!!!!!

[sploo]

This was my solution to the problem: http://spikyfish.com/DustExtraction/

Since those pics were taken, I've improved the exhaust, so it doesn't make as much mess.

I know you aren't in favour of ejecting the air, but one of the points that Pentz makes is that many large workshops have taken the decision that it's easier to warm/cool more air than to try to filter the air for returning.

Using smooth ducting with a large cross sectional area makes a huge difference over using a similar length run of 4" hose BTW.

I also made a dust hood for my K2, which works pretty well at collecting dust at source - though I don't do any 3D work.

[JerryFlyGuy]

Wow.. lot's of suggestions..

Regnar.. I have basically committed to a complete solution.. I expect that in the next year or so.. my boy will want to be w/ dad out in the shop from time to time.. and mom would love it if I could look after him while I work.. so it's important to me to find a solution where there is ZERO airborn dust.. I know it's a tall order but that is my goal..

James, humidity is a issue w/ a water type system. I expect that I may need a de-humidifier in the shop at some point also, but if thats the requirments.. then I guess thats what it will have to be. Currently my dust collection system has no problems picking up 99.9% of the dust, but I know it's spitting out the super fine particles as well.. you can't see them.. and I've tried some simple test's w/ laser pointers to see if I could see them in the beam but no dice.. so I know it's getting most of the dust and all of the chip's.. but it's still not good enough. Like your cyclone, I expect mine will get the majority [although I don't have room for a 9ft unit] but it's that last little bit that I'm focusing on.. it HAS to be elliminated.. I do expect to get some form of an air quality check done to make sure I am getting all of it.. once my system is in place.. Is your piping the type w/ the rib's on it? It would seem that some of that ribbed stuff might cause alot of turbulance issues w/ the flow of air.. or maybe sewer pipe is smooth inside?? If so.. that may very well be a great source of piping.. it'd save having to pay $4/ft for "actual" dust piping!

Sploo, I'm currently building basically the very same thing, mine has a stiff clear plastic skirt on it, but otherwise it's the same deal.. I think this will pic up alot of the dust but it's more the cfm going through it which will be the deciding factor..

Thanks guys..

Jerry

[sploo]

Jerry - I didn't go for a cyclone for the same reasons - lack of space.

I tried a plastic dust hood skirt and didn't get great results, though I believe others have had more success.

If you're mainly going to be doing CNC (i.e. not trying to collect from table saws, routers etc.) then you might consider some form of enclosure for your machine.

I always wear an MDF certified canister mask when I cut, even though I use the extractor.

Unless you've basically got a sealed room with the CNC gear (and you are in another) I wouldn't recommend spending time in there without a mask - and certainly not letting a kid breath that air. I am very much on the cautious end of the spectrum though (and mainly cut MDF)!