[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi all,

I've been fiddleing with this for a while now on and off, but it's kind of gone by the wayside the past few months. I suppose you could consider it a Beta...maybe a Beta of a Beta!

Anyway, I use this to price my jobs and despite its lack of devout attention lately, its coming along quite well if only about 40% finished. You basically fill in the number of each item your using on a job (Such as sanding belts), or the number of hours for each item (Such as cnc router, or router bits) and the program calculates all the costs using the purchase prices you've stored, then gives you all your total's at the end and does up quotations, invoices and receipts.

I have one question first:

I'm wondering would anyone be interested in this type of program. If anyone is it might help motivate me to finish it!

If people do seem interested and I get back to work on it, I'd like some feedback on ways to improve it as it goes along, as with any beta. I can post some more details if anyone's at all interested.

[thkoutsidthebox]

I've added in some more screenshots to give people a better idea of where this is at right now. The blurred areas are either where the photo's were cropped, or the names of my suppliers, or the purchase price I currently buy items at. These are real prices I currently use, so obviously I had to blur them out.

I'll do up a short video of it in use over the next few days and post that aswell. I'll remove the blurring and just change some details slightly so that its clearer in the vid.

The nature of such a program as this is such that it will always be only as good as the information you input to it yourself. i.e: I can put in lists of items (Nuts, bolts, wood, aluminium etc) with my local prices, but those prices won't help each individual get accurate costings. I have found that the best way to get usefulness and accuracy is to keep receipts and every few weeks add in any individual items and their prices. It only takes a few min's and in my case anyway, has built up a nice database of item prices from various suppliers I purchase from. If however, anyone wants to pay my flights, expenses, and accomodation to get their local prices for them, that'd be good too! :banana:

Some people might prefer something like this to be programmed 'correctly' in C or similar, but I like the freedom that a fairly open spreadsheet based design gives.

The program as it stands consists of 9 worksheets:

General Consumables
Prep Products
Finishing Products
Machine Consumables
Machinery Wear & Drill Bits
Wood
Metal
Labour & Misc
Itemised Quotation

Im planning to split Machinery Wear & Drill Bits into two seperate sheets, and add in the following:

General Quotation
Itemised Invoice
General Invoice
Itemised Receipt
General Receipt

The Quotation, Invoice, and Receipt sheets are able to be printed directly for each job to be given to a customer or what not.

Im also considering breaking down the General Consumables, Prep and Finishing Products, into other titles such as 'Abrasives' 'Paints' 'Fixings' etc. Do you think this is a good idea or no?

I'm also throwing around the idea of another printable records sheet with pertinent info on it such as useage rates for particular machinery and tools. And ideas on this are welcome.

At the moment theres no 'Fluff' such as logo's etc, also its a work in progress, theres a lot of relatively minor things like the general user-friendliness of the layout, and making the itemised qutation even 'more itemised' (Its not truely itemised at the moment), and a list on top of those.

Obviously if anyone's interested and I'm giving this to people when/as it progresses, I'll do up a .pdf with instructions in addition to the vid/vid's.

Right now I think its general enough to be used in any fabrication/manufacturing industry for keeping track of basic costs (Basic because its probably too general right now). To improve on it I'd need the assistance of knowledgeable people in specific area (Such as metalworking/machining etc)[ Wonder where I'll find them? !! ] who may have specific items which should be included, and which Im not aware of.

Of course any initial comments are welcome.....

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi all.

There seems to be at least some interest in this, so I've started working on major updates and improvements to the program. At this point its already pretty unrecognisable from the previous version.

So what I've decided to do is upload a video tut of the 'old' version to give a general rundown of the idea, then I'll upload a limited file (Limited because the old one is limited, I wont restrict much.) of the old one to this thread use as you wish. Its be a MS Excel format file, zipped.

I'll then post details of the New and Hugely Improved version as it comes along. Right now Im adding in VAT capabilities, markup capabilities and rearranging the overall layout to make it more organised (Much more time consuming than they sound :tired, but these features won't be in the version I load up at the weekend.

Hopefully when I post the old version and the vid I'll get more feedback.

L8rs.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi all, just an update.

I'm nearly ready to load up the old (Beta ?) version of the program that I've been using for a while. I've just been tidying it up a bit. I have to do up the video intro/tut then I'll upload it here as an attachment before Sunday at the latest. You can all try it out if you want and use it as you wish, it'll be fully free and perfectly functional, if limited in its capabilities. I suppose Im kinda giving something back to cnczone!

Regarding the next version of it, obviously that won't be finished until I get some feedback on the free one, but I've been doing a lot of work on it, and its going to take a while because some of the functions I've had to use are incredibly complex , but we'll get there! I'll post info about it when I load up the 'Beta' version.

L8rs.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi all,
I have a tax question about the USA for Version 1 of the program which Im working on at the moment.

Is VAT in the USA a federal or a state tax?

i.e: If you buy something from outside your own state, is it the same VAT everywhere, or do you pay a different VAT rate depending on which state you buy from?

If you do pay a different rate, do you then have to pay some type of equivalent to Import Duty to bring it into your own state?

Thanks.

[Jason Marsha]

Wow looks really impressive. I think they call it sales tax and its different for each state. Not really sure about the import duty bit.

Jason

[thkoutsidthebox]

Thanks Jason, I have to admit that the old version is not that impressive, but it has worked fine for me for a few months.

The older program doesn't automatically account for tax, but the one I'm working on now does. I'm trying to make it appropriate to the USA as much as possible aswell, hence the above questions.

I'm wondering if I should include some capacilities for import duties, or leave that out for now?

I'll have the new one available in US$, €, and £ format so it suits anyone using the major currencies. It also incidentially will incorporate conversion's for some of the primary information (Like total price) in case your customers are abroad (Selling online or whatever).

If anyone uses a currency other than US$, €, and £, and would like it included in the available conversions please tell me now.

Im working on the vid's for the old version tonight, so I should have it up on time, then I can really get cracking on the new one.
Thanks.

PS: The new program wont just be a price calculator, its also a detailed database of who your suppliers are, what they sell to you, and who's cheaper/more expensive than anyone else. I'm looking at including a supplier information sheet.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi naytep,

I saw in the poll you mentioned that you already use an alternative for job pricing. I'd be interested to know what it is if possible?

Thanks.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Please Note: I am not offering any support for this completely free early Beta, but will answer any basic questions as necessary. Also, this Beta was very limited in its functionality and use, so dont expect too much from it. ( Thats why it was called an early beta! )

Info: The program is based around a number of worksheets. The first video I uploaded to Google Video shows the general overview of the beta. The second one shows the concept of data entry into these worksheets. They don't seem to be working correctly at the moment but they might sort themselves out so here's the links:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34940038&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...48545988&hl=en


My second video showing an example job entry failed upload after nearly 2 hours, so only one video it is!

Once the data is entered and saved as per the video (Updated as necessary) you simply open the file and type in your number of items/hours for each specific item your using on that job.

Actual Job Pricing:
1) Open your saved file with all your consumables and prices saved.
2) Begin at the 'General Consumables' sheet and work down along the list of items you've saved. Add in a number or amount this job value for each item.
Note: The values are decimel based, so if for example you use half a tin of paint that cost €10, enter a value of ".5" to get a cost of €5.
3)Move on one worksheet at a time until you reach 'Labour & Misc' where you can enter some of your hourly charges, then you can see a summary of the prices in the different sections.
4)The quotation sheet will insert all the data automatically. However, you have to fill in the details at the top to describe the job, its size, and type of material used. Just click on the cell and type.

Wood Worksheet NOTE: If for example your making a 24"x12"x1" sign from Maple, use the inch cubed calculator by entering the length, width and thickness to get a total in^3 for that job. You can then enter this value into the appropriate amount above under the 'Hardwoods' section to get a price to charge for that Maple.

Also, the price to charge is calculated from the 'Charge per inch^3' column, not the 'Price per inch^3". If you don't want a markup (Differance between price and charge), and want to charge the same per inch as you buy your wood for, enter the same value in the charge column.

Machinery Consumables and Machinery Wear Worksheets NOTE: Because this was a very early basic version it uses a fixed value per hour on your machine consumables of 15hours. If you think you'll get more or less life than 15 hours out of a particular tool, then you have to change the purchase price of that tool to achieve the charge you want.
On Machinery Wear the fixed value is 500 hours. Drill bits its 15hours.

AGAIN, this version is very basic, but hey, its Free!!

[Klox]

Could you add NZ$ as well? Thanx, Klox

[thkoutsidthebox]

• Seperate $, €, and £ versions with appropriate wording.
• Exchange rate capabilities for pricing jobs abroad.
• Re-organised Worksheets with extra subheadings.
• 60 individual item slots in every sub section.
• Fully functional record database which is unaffected by individual job pricing.
• Wood price in metric and imperial.
• Wood price charging capability per mm, cm, m, inch, & ft cubed.
• Easy setting of VAT rates.
• Easy markup percentage setting for each section, shown for each item incl and ex VAT (Sales TAX).
• Easy use of scale factors to allow choice of any individual suppliers price to use without changing record of consumable buy prices.
• Full Breakdown of individual jobs including Profit Margin (Gross & Net), Overheads, Prices Incl&Excl VAT, markup's, scale factors etc. Relevant Graphs & Charts.
• Easily available calculators for Reverse VAT calculation, Scale factor calculation, Time calculations.
• Supplier Information Sheet
• Ability to charge for Labour, Employees, Delivery, Overheads etc
• Automatic date/time entry on relevant sheets from computer clock.
• Colour coded for ease of use.
• Truely itemised sheets with automatic numeric and text data grabbing from relevant areas.
• Invoice, Quotation, and Receipt sheets with ability to enter your own details and items such as personal logos.
• Option to print above sheets with or without VAT and other info.
• VAT display for individual consumable prices and ability to automatically use seperate VAT rates for items bought from foreign suppliers (Such as other countries within the EU)
• Automatic averaging for item prices containing more than one item such as packets of screws etc
• Automatic display of number of available suppliers for each item.
• Automatic display of cheapest available supplier for each item.
• Easy entry of individual tool life and automatic accounting of this.

If anyone has anything extra in mind please let me know.

One question: Im considering allowing for a 'Long Tool Life' and 'Short Tool Life' calculation so that tool life does not have to be re-entered depending on material hardness. (Does that make sense?). Can I have a ya or nay on this please? because its not as simple as it sounds and Im just not sure if its worth the trouble at this point....

Below are some early screen captures of Version 1. Remember that most of the info is pulled automatically, so its not as ominous as it looks!

Thanks......comments anyone?

[thkoutsidthebox]

No problem Klox, I haven't got that far yet so its still relatively uncomplicated to include other currencies.
In New Zealand is VAT called 'GST' ? And if so what does GST stand for?
Thanks.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Also I forgot to mention, I'll probably be looking for someone to test Version 1 of the program for me and to write an impartial review.....but dont bombard my inbox just yet, I'll let u know when!! lol.

[thkoutsidthebox]

I just noticed that the videos recorded at a horrible quality, I dont know why that is......I'll answer any questions I can about the Beta. Sorry about the video problems. I don't intend to write up a .pdf tut for the Beta.

[MonoNeuron]

Thats some good work you're doing matey. Could you also include Australian dollars. GST (Goods and Services tax) is 10% here in Aus.
What spreadSheet program will it work on. I don't have MS Office but could it work on another variant of it? Keep up the good work as I have always wanted a program of this type because I have never had to cost a job and wouldn't know the first place to start. Your program could do all that for me.
regards
Richard.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Thats some good work you're doing matey. Could you also include Australian dollars. GST (Goods and Services tax) is 10% here in Aus.
What spreadSheet program will it work on. I don't have MS Office but could it work on another variant of it? Keep up the good work as I have always wanted a program of this type because I have never had to cost a job and wouldn't know the first place to start. Your program could do all that for me.
regards
Richard.

Thanks for the encouragement Richard.

I'll include Australian$ also.

In relation to the spreadsheet program, I don't want it to be limited to MS. At the moment I am writing it in MS Excel 2002, so it will work with any versions of Excel released after that. But I'm expecting it to also work with some of the free alternatives to MS Office such as OpenOffice ( http://www.openoffice.org/ ), however I'll have to test these when its finished. If necessary I'll do my best to adapt the finished article to make these compatible, but I don't forsee any problems. Hope this is good news!

Hopefully the program will be helpful to you. I started this originally because I wanted an easy way to cost and price out my jobs. The most significant part is gathering your local prices and saving them in the program, but that only takes a few minutes at a time. If you do intend using this program in a few weeks you might want to start keeping those receipts now!
Pricing and costing each individual job is relatively painless once you've done it the first time.

__________________________________________________ ______________________

I started thinking today about vehicle costings incl maintenance, vehicle overheads etc....I keep thinking of extra's to add in, but at this point its turning into a complete business management solution, and I'm starting to feel I need to draw the line somewhere or it'll take forever!!

Whatever I add into it, I'll make sure that it remains easy to use for the small shop, and anything extra on top of that can be ignored if you want to.

I think I'll make two copies of Vers.1 available, both with all the same features. The standard one will have cells locked but this will be a benefit for the basic user who doesn't want to mess up any functions by accident, and the Unconditional Version which will be completely unlocked and anyone familiar with compiling spreadsheet functions can have the ability to edit it or add to it if they wish at some point. I'll wait and see how people feel about this later.

L8rs.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi all, below is another screenshot.

I've added in an 'Alternative Tool Life' column, in which you can save a shorter or longer tool life for those irregular jobs. For instance if you usually cut sign foam then your standard tool life might be 50hrs for a router bit, but sometimes you make hardwood signs. This allows you to easily use an alternative tool life in relevant jobs, of maybe 15 hours, for when your using that different material. Like most items, you only have to ever enter these values once, then they're saved for future jobs. This is also available for equipment, so if you have for instance a drill that you bring out on jobs with you, and its getting knocked around on site a lot, then it wouldn't be expected to last as long as if it never left the workshop. This feature allows you to charge more for that tool on the particular jobs that its coming with you, and the lower price when its not leaving the workshop.

Also, I've added in a number of manual calculators which you can use to do all the work for you when your converting factors from your carving program and putting them into the job pricing. Originally I intended to put the calculators together on a seperate sheet, but I found that its much quicker to have them available on every sheet....so I went one better, and I put them directly above every subsection just in case you need them! These are 'Nice to Have' and dont take away from the general automation of the calculations overall.

I've also introduced an 'Individual Markup Rate' in addition to the subsection markup rate so that you can perfectly set the markup on each individual item.

Currently I'm working on the Wood section which is a huge improvement, but we'll cover that later.

Bye for now.

[MonoNeuron]

I can only see this getting better with age.......just like the rest of us :-)
I will follow this with great interest. I have wondered how you could cost for a laser cut job and would you factor in the cost for the length of time to cut the job or that plus material because some jobs take seconds and others take 20 mins or more. How can you factor in programming for the job when people aren't interested in how you did it but by how cheap it is. It's a hard thing to do.
I will lurk in the background for a while and keep tabs on you. :-)
Rich.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hmmm....a laser would be interesting, but I'd have to ask lots of questions since I never used one....do you have one?
For example:
You have to charge for materials anyway, no problem there....but charging for the laser itself, you'd charge for wear on the machinery per hour just like any other equipment, this encompasses parts replacement and what not.....but then you have to figure out the running costs which I imagine would be basically electricity.....and or water if you have water charges and the water is not recirculated....
For instance....With a 200W laser, does it use 200W per hour or what is the strength a factor of? You'd have to calculate it as a factor of your electricity charges per kilowatt hour. No big deal, you just need the numbers.

For programming and design, I usually (and I think most people) just charge a set fee per hour, just like machine setup and the manual labour involved in any job.

Anyone here have a laser to give me more info on the costs involved...if there's a lot of differances lasers might have to wait for Version 2!! lol

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi again,

Here are some initial screenshots of the worksheet for recording your wood prices and calculating the costs for any job.

There's a lot in this page, but for actually pricing a job its very easy.

I'll make the written instructions and any video tuts available to people as soon as its finished so they can use them to decide if the program would be useful to them or not.

L8rs.