[ltmquik]

Besides I have both machines sitting next to each other. It's a no brainer which machine is built better.

Same situation here.

[Edster]

What kind of machine is your "other" machine?

[ltmquik]

What kind of machine is your "other" machine?

HAAS. They run circles around our 'other' machines. We have not had a single hour of down time since the machines were installed over a year and a half ago. The older, pre 2004, Fadals work but are slooooowwww.

[ASIGuy]

Your the one that bashed every other manufacturer claiming Fadal is equal.

Maybe your promoting Fadal because you want more machines to fix......

Besides I have both machines sitting next to each other. It's a no brainer which machine is built better.

I do make my living offering support on both Haas and Fadal and enjoy helping other in tight situations. Much like an undertaker, however I don't get excited when I see a car crash. It's just life. Haas makes a good machine tool, as do many other manufacturers and I prefer Fadal. Simple as that. I prefer to keep my converstations with you and others in a positive light and will not respond to your negativity. You live that life, mine, my customers and family are of a positive nature and I prefer to keep it that way.

If the money is available, we can all buy Makino's or Mori Seiki's and have that fantistically build machine running parts 24/7 with little troubles. For the price range Fadal, Haas, Hardinge and others are in, I think Fadal does a pretty good job. You know, Ford/Chevy/Chrysler...they all have they up and down points and it's your job as a business owner to make that decision.

Haas and the rest, you are locked into the HFO for parts and service unless you do it yourself and you are still locked into the HFO for parts. The factory does a pretty good job having them in stock and I have many customers who appreciate that as do I when I'm fixing one for someone. But I have just as good of luck with Fadal parts, and if the factory doesn't have something in stock, you have other options....not with Haas. I like options, don't you?

That's about it. I don't surf the Haas or other catagories and down their equipment. That's just common curtesy. This forum is for help, support and to discuss solutions to problems and share ideas and fun stories. Why does it have to turning into a Fadal bashing contest. I don't want to play that game. Sorry.

Brian D.

[Edster]

I prefer to keep my converstations with you and others in a positive light and will not respond to your negativity. You live that life, mine, my customers and family are of a positive nature and I prefer to keep it that way.

For the price range Fadal, Haas, Hardinge and others are in, I think Fadal does a pretty good job.

I don't surf the Haas or other catagories and down their equipment. That's just common curtesy. This forum is for help, support and to discuss solutions to problems and share ideas and fun stories. Why does it have to turning into a Fadal bashing contest. I don't want to play that game. Sorry.

Brian D.

Unless you mistook rickyt's post for one of mine too, I did make a positive and light comment. Which you responded with your horror story of a broken down okuma and insisted I will have my day.

I don't read any forums to bash manufacturers, information gathering is mostly why I read the forums. I'm here because I own a Fadal. It was my first machine and I learned how to run cncs on that machine. I still learn things about the old girl and I'm not ready to retire her yet. I'm not here to bash Fadal, but otoh, I'm not going to sit back while you claim all machines are equal either.

About you're comment on price range. Before buying the Okuma, I got quotes from Fadal for one of their 40 x 20 FX machines. The price they quoted wasn't much lower than the Okuma I bought. This was soon after IMTS, so maybe their heads were a little swelled with how good their FX's were going to sell or something.

[rickyt]

You are right, this forum is a place to discuss machines and learn from each other. I'm sorry for my comments in the other post's. I was just telling him he had options, I hope I did not offend anyone. I have ran Fadal's for years and people make alot of money with them. I hope he can get the machine fixed and running like it should. Fadal is an American company and I just wish that they would offer a more trouble free and reliable machine. We need to really compete in the global market or the USA will be in a bad spot.

[ASIGuy]

Nevermind. I don't want to get sucked in. God bless we live in America to spite it's faults.

Best regards,

Brian D.

[ghyman]

Now that we've all calmed down...

We've had our spindle worked on twice in three months, all related to it being noisy.
We've had tensioners, belts, pulleys, and brackets replaced. We've been told that the noise is normal, and will go away as the machine wears in. We've had an entire assembly replaced... not sure what it did, as I don't feel the need to become mechanically involved with the machine while it is still not proven as 'reliable', but it was a two-day teardown and rebuild.
Lately, it sounds like someone has put a handful of gravel in a blender when it runs... but only randomly.
Today, it failed to execute a tool change... the spindle wouldn't finish orienting for the toolchanger. And now it no longer runs at all.
Combined with the other problems we've had with this machine literally since the day it was delivered, I cannot ever see a situation in which I would buy a Fadal over any other brand.
The local support and training has been minimal, and the quality of the machine has been completely unacceptable.

[carbidecraters]

Now that we've all calmed down...

We've had our spindle worked on twice in three months, all related to it being noisy.
We've had tensioners, belts, pulleys, and brackets replaced. We've been told that the noise is normal, and will go away as the machine wears in. We've had an entire assembly replaced... not sure what it did, as I don't feel the need to become mechanically involved with the machine while it is still not proven as 'reliable', but it was a two-day teardown and rebuild.
Lately, it sounds like someone has put a handful of gravel in a blender when it runs... but only randomly.
Today, it failed to execute a tool change... the spindle wouldn't finish orienting for the toolchanger. And now it no longer runs at all.
Combined with the other problems we've had with this machine literally since the day it was delivered, I cannot ever see a situation in which I would buy a Fadal over any other brand.
The local support and training has been minimal, and the quality of the machine has been completely unacceptable.

Hmmm Try spraying the belt with a little WD-40 and see if the noise goes away. We had the same issue with 2 of our Fadals...seems that the motor mounts were bad and the belt made the spindle sound like it was crunching bad. You can also take the tensioner cable loose and push and pull on the spindle motor to see if the sound changes.

[ghyman]

Hmmm Try spraying the belt with a little WD-40 and see if the noise goes away. We had the same issue with 2 of our Fadals...seems that the motor mounts were bad and the belt made the spindle sound like it was crunching bad. You can also take the tensioner cable loose and push and pull on the spindle motor to see if the sound changes.

This all has happened since October 15th when the (brand new) machine was delivered.
The service tech has worked on the spindle twice... the first time to replace a pulley that was "bad", a tensioner, as well as replacing a belt.
When the noise returned several days later, he told us that the noise was normal and would go away as the belt and pulley 'wore in'.
Shortly after that, it had become loud enough that conversation at the machine was impossible; they then replaced an entire assembly... seems to me there were belts and pulleys and a mounting bracket and a LOT of labor involved.
The most recent sound (before it died completely this morning) was most definitely not a belt... Ever run over a rock with a lawn mower and had it do a couple of laps before being ejected? It was kinda like that, but more like a whole handful of rocks.

I appreciate the WD-40 suggestion, but in this case I am going to hold the sales/service people responsible for fixing it, replacing it, or removing it from our shop.

[Paul_S]

. . . but in this case I am going to hold the sales/service people responsible for fixing it, replacing it, or removing it from our shop.

I hope it works out for you in your favor, one way or the other.

[ghyman]

Still down...
The through-spindle coolant has apparently been leaking into the spindle drive from a few places since day one, and has gummed up the entire works... Surprising they never noticed this the three times they've been in there replacing belts and pulleys and such!

"But with each day there is fresh hope." (Ellen Griswold, 1983.)

[ghyman]

Two days later...
They've replaced 2 different sets of seals and a piston that was cracked and also leaking.
The word from the serviceman was "well, you're always going to have problems with it leaking."
Fadal (finally) has promised to send a factory-trained serviceman in; he was supposed to be here half an hour ago, but has not shown up yet.
And of course, I can't call Fadal and find out where he is due to the 3-hour time difference.
In the 3 months we've had it, this (brand new) machine has not run for one week straight without having major problems requiring 2-3 days of down time.
And now, exactly 100 days after it was installed, the only thing they can say is "well, you're always going to have this kind of problems with this machine."

And now no sign of their serviceman.

Nice.

[GARY DAVIS]

how much is the air /oil spindle

[ghyman]

Not sure of the price of the air/oil option by itself (it's standard with the machine/spindle);
ours is a 15K spindle with through-spindle coolant, it was $17,500US

And last week, it started something new... it's now stalling out the spindle (in low range!) in the middle of a cut that it has taken numerous times over the past month (when it was actually working); and the machine's load/speed GUI display doesn't show any increase in load or decrease in speed until the machine alarms out!
Gotta love it!

[grweldon]

The spindle stalling out is, once again, due to the TSC seals leaking on the belts. Mine was doing the same thing before the seals were replaced the first time.

When the TSC seals were replaced for the second time, the service tech discovered that there was a check valve in the coolant supply line that was keeping coolant from being purged when the TSC was turned off. This also contributed to the oily coolant mess in the spindle area as well. I also got the line that the TSC seals will always be a problem. The tech told me that if you turn on the TSC with a tool that doesn't use TSC, this will ruin the seals after only one time, or so I was told. This is a problem, seeing as the regular coolant and the TSC switch are side-by-side on the controller. You never know when the operator may put a HSS drill in place of a coolant drill without thinking.

I have a third call in to Fadal (Cardinal Machinery...excellent sales and service by the way) as we speak for a problem most likely related to the tensioners. It makes an intermittent noise when starting up after a tool change that also requires a speed range change.

The machine (a 6030) was installed in 15 Aug 07. It's been very productive. All of the situations that required service have not been so severe that we couldn't still run the machine and total downtime has been about 20 hours. All of the service has been under warranty so far and has been done by factory technicians.

I've got a requisition in for another Fadal, a 4020FX. I think they are great machines for the money. I'm thinking you got a lemon, which really sucks, I know. It happens, but it always alters your perception of the manufacturer.

[ghyman]

Funny you would mention the check valve... during one of the many service calls we have had, the check valve was removed specifically because it is a 'known issue'!

We can run it now, but we've had to drop the feedrate on our rougher from 41IPM to 20 IPM to 12, and now the roughing must be done with the override at 50% and a 'feed hold' about 5 times during one pass.
(.150" dp in Stainless... I'm sure I could take lighter cuts, but ffs... the machine should work without having to program around all of the 'known issues'!)

It happens, but it always alters your perception of the manufacturer.

Actually, the local distributer/service center has done most of the perception altering all by themselves.
But, the manufacturer is not doing much better... If we ship a product that doesn't perform in the field (turret bearing rings), then we replace the malfunctioning unit immediately, and have the defective unit returned so we can see where the problem is. I know a CNC machine is not so easy to swap out, but it seems like we passed the point of 'easy vs functional' long ago!

Anyway... I'm starting to rant now.

I hope it is just a seal issue this time; they're getting good at replacing them; I'd hate to think there's a new problem that would require another 4 months to figure out!

[Edster]

17,500 for the spindle. Are you kidding? An okuma spindle is about that but it's integral motor/spindle assembley not just a belt driven spindle.

[ghyman]

Bad seals (different ones this time), damaged pressure plate, coolant all over the place.

This is getting old.

[rickyt]

It does sound like you may have gotten a lemon. Is there anyway they can get another mill in there. I'm afaid just the lost production time would almost run me out of business. I wish this would get resolved for you, I have ran some pretty nice Fadal's in the past, most with the Fadal control, and one with the Fanuc 18i MB5, the one with the Fanuc was one of my all time favorite machines.