[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I suspect that the USB is just a means of introducing a power supply. The diagram you posted at the start of the thread clearly shows that its a wired pendant, ie there is no communication
over USB, just a power supply. If CNCMAN172 is wrong then so am I, I'm of the opinion this is NOT a USB pendant in the manner that the VistaCNC P1A is, for example.

To clear the matter up why don't you open up the pendant and show us the insides. If it is a genuine USB pendant, however unlikely that seems, then there will be a circuit board inside
to concatenate all the switching info into serial data frames. A picture will reveal all.

Craig

Craig

[CNCMAN172]

I was talking about Rattm Motor photo of that pendant did not pick up the two pendants were different. Contact another eBay seller who sells same one and see if they will send pluggin via email

[mactec54]

With the greatest respect, I think I know what a device connected by USB looks like / is described as - refer to the attached photo!
Each of the varied outputs are selectable via the push button membrane switches, they cycle through each by one step every button press.
I've got no idea how all this data is transmitted through just 6 pins, two of which are power and ground, but must be achievable as others
can do it!

This would be the best USB type to get, it has all the functions you would ever need; switch select is better on a pendent like this than the membrane type switching.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
100% on that, it looks identical to the one I had....and I just plain wore it out after about eight years. If I'm not mistaken that is a VistaCNC P1A.

I had all the functions I required and more.

Craig

[kawazuki]

Hi,
I suspect that the USB is just a means of introducing a power supply. The diagram you posted at the start of the thread clearly shows that its a wired pendant, ie there is no communication
over USB, just a power supply. If CNCMAN172 is wrong then so am I, I'm of the opinion this is NOT a USB pendant in the manner that the VistaCNC P1A is, for example.

To clear the matter up why don't you open up the pendant and show us the insides. If it is a genuine USB pendant, however unlikely that seems, then there will be a circuit board inside
to concatenate all the switching info into serial data frames. A picture will reveal all.

Hi,
I made a wired pendant when my old P1A wore out. It needs five signal wires only, two for the MPG wheel itself, two for axis select and one for Velocity/Incremental jog mode. The cable
has seven wires, the five signals plus two for the power supply. It works, very simple, but it works.

Thank you all for the replies. There does seem to be some confusion though, although I thought it was clear in my 1st post - the first purchase the 'Mach3' pendant was / is supposedly a USB device and was supposed to use Mach3 Modbus? , the other is a wired device intended for a DB25 parallel connection and this one came with the 22 pin schematic and little else.

As requested i've taken the backs off to show the insides - the 'USB' unit clearly has +5v, 0v, A and B outputs to the USB connection. All components are in picture other than LEDs and two push button switches on reverse. The IC has no markings so cannot be identified but my limited electronics knowledge says there are two crystals on board - maybe to provide the pulse stream? The second unit is again clearly the wired for DB25 device. Other than the switch on the side, it is pretty much restricted to 6 pole encoder (the other unit has a 4 pole encoder) and two multi position switches that follow the wiring schematic.

@joeaverage - if you made a wired pendant from a USB P1A - a picture of the inside of that may prove enlightening and what PlugIn did you then use to operate it with Mach3.

What I find frustrating with YouTube videos showing many variations of pendant usage is they either use proprietary software / plugin's for some obscure CNC or if it is Mach3, its a case of plug it in to PC / Laptop and hey presto - it works ! ! ! with no details of how? This is the most enlightening webpage tutorial that explains a lot (at least to me anyway!) https://whyelectricshock.wordpress.c...s-milling-cnc/ The video on YT is good but I can't link two URL's in a single post!

[CNCMAN172]

Thank you all for the replies. There does seem to be some confusion though, although I thought it was clear in my 1st post - the first purchase the 'Mach3' pendant was / is supposedly a USB device and was supposed to use Mach3 Modbus? , the other is a wired device intended for a DB25 parallel connection and this one came with the 22 pin schematic and little else.

As requested i've taken the backs off to show the insides - the 'USB' unit clearly has +5v, 0v, A and B outputs to the USB connection. All components are in picture other than LEDs and two push button switches on reverse. The IC has no markings so cannot be identified but my limited electronics knowledge says there are two crystals on board - maybe to provide the pulse stream? The second unit is again clearly the wired for DB25 device. Other than the switch on the side, it is pretty much restricted to 6 pole encoder (the other unit has a 4 pole encoder) and two multi position switches that follow the wiring schematic.

@joeaverage - if you made a wired pendant from a USB P1A - a picture of the inside of that may prove enlightening and what PlugIn did you then use to operate it with Mach3.

What I find frustrating with YouTube videos showing many variations of pendant usage is they either use proprietary software / plugin's for some obscure CNC or if it is Mach3, its a case of plug it in to PC / Laptop and hey presto - it works ! ! ! with no details of how? This is the most enlightening webpage tutorial that explains a lot (at least to me anyway!) https://whyelectricshock.wordpress.c...s-milling-cnc/ The video on YT is good but I can't link two URL's in a single post!

This does appear to be a USB pendant. You can see the microcontroller and crystal. This appears to be an older pendant, as the ICs used the main micro is like a 20pin dip. The PCBA is a single sided board which is less expensive to manufacture. They are using the 5V on the USB cable to power the device that is also evident. You only hope will be to find someone else who sells this exact pendant and see if they have the DLL or MACH3 plugin to get it to work.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

@joeaverage - if you made a wired pendant from a USB P1A - a picture of the inside of that may prove enlightening and what PlugIn did you then use to operate it with Mach3.

No, I didn't make a wired pendant from a P1A, I made my own. When I used the P1A I naturally used the plugin provided by VistaCNC, firstly for Mach3 and when I upgraded then I used
the Mach4 plugin. I still have it, and it still works, but only when it's cold. With high ambient temperatures it goes cranky.

Craig

[kawazuki]

You only hope will be to find someone else who sells this exact pendant and see if they have the DLL or MACH3 plugin to get it to work.

Yeah Right! LOL. I have tracked down two other sellers of the same device and their web adverts are virtually identical bar the odd spelling mistake. From my experience, the sellers do not make the stuff, just sell it, and as such don't really have a clue what it is, how it works and how to support the customer if there is an issue! This is evidenced by their reference to 'Mydrivers' for drivers / plugin / ModbuS updated - a completely Chinese orientated website which Google Translate struggles to negotiate and which has no reference to anything connected with this or suchlike devices! It is a real shame as it could be a good device for its cost but I guess it'll get added to the 'almost there' shelf of chinesium products!
I'll persist with the wired pendant - have expansion card, have self assembly, solder DB25 plug, have soldering iron, have tutorial YT videos - what could go wrong LOL!

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
this is quite common amongst Chinese suppliers.

No doubt at one time there was a clever engineer whom designed and built the first units of this type, and probably worked OK. Whomever it was has since
departed the scene so the only examples are one of the many clones.....made by people who have no idea how they work and cannot support customers.....they
just cannot.

You may have thought it was cheap, but given that it does not go and in all probability you'll not be able to get it to go, then it works out as a waste ie expensive.

Craig

[kawazuki]

One quick Q before I start gluing wires - referring back to my 1st post, Pictures #3 & #4 - why does +5v and ground need to be applied to pins 1 & 2 ?
Is this not putting 5v into the PC from an unpowered port?
I realise that the encoder mpg needs 5v and in my case will be brought in via a USB connection, so i'm puzzled why the Pin 1 connection.
If its to do with pulling pins high or low - i'm completely stumped as a switch eith has or does not have a voltage / ground one side and when
operated the other side sees that same potential voltage or ground - as said i'm an electronics logic numpty !

[mactec54]

One quick Q before I start gluing wires - referring back to my 1st post, Pictures #3 & #4 - why does +5v and ground need to be applied to pins 1 & 2 ?
Is this not putting 5v into the PC from an unpowered port?
I realise that the encoder mpg needs 5v and in my case will be brought in via a USB connection, so i'm puzzled why the Pin 1 connection.
If its to do with pulling pins high or low - i'm completely stumped as a switch eith has or does not have a voltage / ground one side and when
operated the other side sees that same potential voltage or ground - as said i'm an electronics logic numpty !

Normally that 5v +/- would come from the computer or Breakout Board that you are connecting to.

[CNCMAN172]

One quick Q before I start gluing wires - referring back to my 1st post, Pictures #3 & #4 - why does +5v and ground need to be applied to pins 1 & 2 ?
Is this not putting 5v into the PC from an unpowered port?
I realise that the encoder mpg needs 5v and in my case will be brought in via a USB connection, so i'm puzzled why the Pin 1 connection.
If its to do with pulling pins high or low - i'm completely stumped as a switch eith has or does not have a voltage / ground one side and when
operated the other side sees that same potential voltage or ground - as said i'm an electronics logic numpty !

Not sure I followed your quest, but photos 3&4 are the wired pendant not the usb pendant. The 5v and ground are needed for the mpg and the logic on the board. The wired pendant has a db25 connector and you need to provide the power to that connector. Some of these pendants are designed to plug into an old PC parallel port others do not have direct mapping

[kawazuki]

Not sure I followed your quest, but photos 3&4 are the wired pendant not the usb pendant. The 5v and ground are needed for the mpg and the logic on the board. The wired pendant has a db25 connector and you need to provide the power to that connector. Some of these pendants are designed to plug into an old PC parallel port others do not have direct mapping

Some misunderstanding here - Forget the USB pendant, that is beyond redemption! I'm adding a DB25 plug to the wired pendant as it came bare wires. I always thought that parallel ports were 'dumb' ie. unpowered?
I know the mpg needs power and will provide this from a separate USB connection UNLESS someone can confirm that the PC will output 5v & ground to pins 1 and 2 of the expansion card i've added. I suppose I can probe the port pins with a multimeter but would prefer confirmation that nothing can be harmed by putting 5v onto this pin even though it 'only' feeds the mpg? or is it required for anything else / switches in the pendant ?

[kawazuki]

Follow up from last post above - I probed the two parallel ports on the CNC PC - 1st on the motherboard and 2nd a new PP expansion card. The 1st PP shows 4.18v on pin1 to pin2 or pin9 (both grounds?) and the 2nd PP shows 3.24v between same pins!
So I'm mighty confused ! ! ! I know that 3.3v was used in some PC circuits, usually RAM so 3.24v is in the realms of possibility but 4.18v to too high for that and pish poor for a 5v rail which normally run between 4.8 - 5.15v ! Anyway that sort of confirms that
PP's aren't 'dumb' and are powered but (in my case) not at 5v required by the MPG ! Any additional thoughts?

[mactec54]

Follow up from last post above - I probed the two parallel ports on the CNC PC - 1st on the motherboard and 2nd a new PP expansion card. The 1st PP shows 4.18v on pin1 to pin2 or pin9 (both grounds?) and the 2nd PP shows 3.24v between same pins!
So I'm mighty confused ! ! ! I know that 3.3v was used in some PC circuits, usually RAM so 3.24v is in the realms of possibility but 4.18v to too high for that and pish poor for a 5v rail which normally run between 4.8 - 5.15v ! Anyway that sort of confirms that
PP's aren't 'dumb' and are powered but (in my case) not at 5v required by the MPG ! Any additional thoughts?

The 4.18v may work fine just connect it and see, you may need to use a Breakout Board that uses 5v which most do you can then connect the PP to the Breakout Board

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...gs/breakout-c2

[kawazuki]

Thanks for the reply but 'Suck it and see' doesn't work for me! And adding a Breakout Board in line (that also requires 5V !) doesn't make any sense whatsoever. My set-up of PC to 25 core cable to Gecko 540 works fine without additional 'stuff' added inline.
The fact that that particular one requires a 5v PSU plus 2No. $4 DB25 cable adaptors to achieve what i'm proposing ie. Pendant with DB25 plug + a USB (for 5v) and using the 2nd parallel expansion card in the PC - its adding stuff to achieve nothing extra!
Very helpfully, their manual has a pinout schedule that mirrors that which came with the pendant so i'll follow that.

[mactec54]

Thanks for the reply but 'Suck it and see' doesn't work for me! And adding a Breakout Board in line (that also requires 5V !) doesn't make any sense whatsoever. My set-up of PC to 25 core cable to Gecko 540 works fine without additional 'stuff' added inline.
The fact that that particular one requires a 5v PSU plus 2No. $4 DB25 cable adaptors to achieve what i'm proposing ie. Pendant with DB25 plug + a USB (for 5v) and using the 2nd parallel expansion card in the PC - its adding stuff to achieve nothing extra!
Very helpfully, their manual has a pinout schedule that mirrors that which came with the pendant so i'll follow that.

You were talking about the parallel expansion card, this Breakout Board is a perfect fit for that to connect / wire the Pendent you have.

[CNCMAN172]

Mactec is correct you just need a parallel expansion port and then a breakout card. The breakout cards have connection for 5v power supply. Look at cnc4pc.com they have everything you need. The 4.8v you measured was a TTL high level and not good to power the pendant

[kawazuki]

Mactec is correct you just need a parallel expansion port and then a breakout card. The breakout cards have connection for 5v power supply. Look at cnc4pc.com they have everything you need. The 4.8v you measured was a TTL high level and not good to power the pendant

Why is everyone trying to get me to buy a breakout board! The one indicated just sits in-line between pendant and the PC expansion card and apart from adding 5v, it does nothing else! I can achieve exactly that by including a flying USB lead when I add the parallel port plug to the pendant wiring - so thats what i'm going to do! The other thing is that, I don't live in the US so buying this stuff costs a fortune ie. getting that plus the adapter cables is going to be about $60 delivered . . . . . . . . cutting up a spare USB cable JUST for a source of 5v costs nothing and gets the same result! And that avoids finding an extra wall plug PSU to feed the B/O board - the PC has sufficient onboard 5v available for free!

[mactec54]

Why is everyone trying to get me to buy a breakout board! The one indicated just sits in-line between pendant and the PC expansion card and apart from adding 5v, it does nothing else! I can achieve exactly that by including a flying USB lead when I add the parallel port plug to the pendant wiring - so thats what i'm going to do! The other thing is that, I don't live in the US so buying this stuff costs a fortune ie. getting that plus the adapter cables is going to be about $60 delivered . . . . . . . . cutting up a spare USB cable JUST for a source of 5v costs nothing and gets the same result! And that avoids finding an extra wall plug PSU to feed the B/O board - the PC has sufficient onboard 5v available for free!

Opto-isolation is doing what is needed, you always want to isolate the computer from and outside devices. as for any cable needs you can get that in the UK