[metalmayhem]

does anyone know of an online retailer who sells kyocera (sgs) end mills in or to Canada . Every so often I search and search but haven't found anyone here and very few in the US . What I need specifically is 4fl 3/32 ballnose . The reason I need these is for performance and my machining feeds are set for these tools . May sound strange but this is due to the flute length which is 9/32" . I basically have these set on average at 10% from snapping , though I do snap them here and there . They do a lot of surfacing which is why time is important . A 3/8 length will snap almost immediately and I'm not willing to a 1/3 more time to production because of 1 tool .

Anyhow . I have an order in with one company but 2 weeks in and not shipped has me looking at this as being my first and possibly last order with them . My only alternative is a guy on ebay I've been buying from for years now because his prices are good . Problem there is the ebay international shipping is falling apart and I'm pretty much done with it .
All my other tools are a mix of brands which is fine , but the 3/32 kyocera has proven itself superior over every brand I've tried , and I've tried many

An alternative may be a 5/16 flute length . I've seen some sold by a few companies but they either don't respond or ship to Canada

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I have bought Kyocera tools from:

https://www.ebay.com/str/carbideplus

Have done so for some years, especially small diameter endmils, engraving tools and drills for making PCBs.

I have had the same issue with Ebay international shipping, so I have the company ship to a freight agent (NZPost) in Oregon.
Cheap as chips to get stuff shipped around the US. Thereafter NZPost take over and handle the international shipping part and the inevitable
NZ local tax as an item enters the country. Very convenient....not cheap, but not expensive either....and more importantly reliable and consistent.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

Thats the guy I usually buy them from . Ebay was ok when they shipped with pitney bowes but now they've changed to asendia who is horrible . All my packages wait at the depot for over a week . They repackage and destroy stuff . I had a car stereo shipped up a couple weeks ago , it was loose in the box and all the bouncing smashed the screen . I'm pretty much done with it .

I go through 50-100 of those end mills a year , his prices are good but he often has limited amounts for a period of time , so I need a better source . I found one Canadian company who sells them and I could buy almost 3 for the price of one of theirs , I laughed when I saw my quote

It would be nice to use a stub length but a lot on my pockets won't allow for that

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
yes, Oliver does seem to have the best prices, although as you say sometimes the stock is patchy, but overall I've had good service.

I do use Harvey Tools, absolutely superb range of every imaginable shape and size, not cheap but just so many to choose from.
If you are into aluminum machining try the DiBoride coated tools, 'greasy as a butchers prick' in aluminum!.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

Harvey is good , pricey but good , unfortunately the distributor for this corner of my world are goofs .

I tend to use uncoated for the most part . My problem is tool pressure , a lot of the 3/32 cuts are light while some can get intermittently heavy in the tighter pockets the roughers can't get to . Guy's often say never use 4flt with aluminum but my process would at least triple for that one tool if I used 2 or 3 flt . All my other tools are 2 or 3 flute but the 3/32 and 1/16 must be 4 .

I've optimized to the point that I limited myself to that particular tool . It's funny how much of a difference of .08" can make on the strength of a tool but it's significant on small diameter cutters . I think a 5/16 length would do it but finding some that'll ship is a whole problem of it's own

[metalmayhem]

found some osg with 5/16 flt to try . I tend to like their tools so I'm a bit optimistic . They cost a few dollars more , but , they are within the province which is a lot less distance for them to travel .
I'm still hoping the current order for the kyocera doesn't flake out on me , it's been over 2 weeks with nothing happening so my patience is wearing thin .

[deadlykitten]

hy metalmayhem i also stand with kyocera for some tools

there are 'tools' and 'quality tools' ... a low tool may resist few hours, while a quality one can handle 2-3-4-etc shifts

i saw that difference years ago, during long term setups, like months ... since then, i tried to avoid nameless brands, or avoid door2door sellers that simply wanna make some money; even with kyocera, there are different grades, variations, so it take a while to find the best one

also, for the same insert, there are quality variations, like for example you get some inserts now and they work, next time they may be worse but still work, next time they are again ok .... thus fabrication variation during years

I've optimized to the point that I limited myself to that particular tool

i think i understand, not only the idea, but the amount of work

anyway, sorry, i can not recomand for canada ... don't you have a local tool crafting shop in your area ? like to replicate that tool for you, maybe even make it better ? if so, they could deliver fast, while such a requirement would be ignored from kyocera, as they require quantity

i mostly entered because i saw 'kyocera' in thread name : please, if you have time, will you develop more on your testings for this tool ? maybe show something ? thank you

I had a car stereo shipped up a couple weeks ago , it was loose in the box and all the bouncing smashed the screen . I'm pretty much done with it

omg, what a lost i really enjoyed a nokia phone for years, and i swichted parts among the way, like speakers, screen, batery, etc, but when the anttena needed replacement 2 years ago, i could no longer find spare parts, and i got screwed from ebay or something ... so now, i have a smart phone; but is like a black box, all look the same; onestly, i don't like as much, but it made my life easier

[metalmayhem]

there is definitely a lot to be said for quality tools and they can save a lot of headaches and money in the long term . I have 5 mills that run the kyocera 3/32 bn and I can often run a month or so before losing a tool . Other times I easily can blow through 5 of them within no time at all . I have a few hundred programs and they all have that tool , most run smooth while a few are a bit hard on it and some of those are going to need a bit of tweaking to the roughing passes to give that tool some relief . Overall small tools suck

A problem we have here is a lack of Canadian manufactures and the ones we have sell through distributors who sell out of shops rather than online . Then there's the markup , everything costs a lot of money here for no reason other than gouging . Most of my online shopping is out of the US because even with shipping and brokerage it is usually much cheaper .
My direct problem for buying local is that there isn't local , I live in the bush on an island . Forestry is the bigger industry and not much in the way of manufacturing , though I do buy my materials and hour south island . When I lived on the mainland their where a number of distributors but once again I wasn't impressed with the pricing and the biggest one (thomas skinner) will never get another dollar from me again , they suck !

The osg that I came across is a Canadian manufacturer , but once again finding a Canadian distributor that will ship is a pita . The company I ordered from is just over on the mainland which is handy other than the week to 2 weeks lead time . The end mills cost a few dollars more than the kyocera but my past experiences with those tools have been good . It's been well over 10 yrs since I've used their end mills so hopefully the quality is the same or better .

yg-1 alu-power is a name that keeps getting mentioned to me when I'm asking for a tool comparable to the kyocera/sgs , it's beyond me why , those tools are sh$# . The distributors seem surprised when I say that because they say they have a lot of customers who love them . I've tried square end mills and various sized ballnose , both suck . The corners snap on the square while the tips snaps on the ballnose . They have a nice grind to them and they are very sharp but cheap brittle carbide . They'd never have survived in the production shops I used to work in , especially if they can't survive my shop

[deadlykitten]

you are not the 1st to mention that shiping from outside is cheaper than local stuff; in some regions, local busines are not suported, while outside/abroad agents that come in, have very favorable conditions

i am a metric guy, and just cheking, that is round tip kyocera, close to 25mm ... indeed, for such not small tools, prices varies more

if you are runing okuma machines, i can help you create the chart loads over the toolpath, and mapp the feeds automatically; call it how you like, autotune, adaptive, etc

when you are optimizing, 90% of result are reached with 10% effort, while last 10% require a high amounf of effort; i have software tools based on machine data, and others / kindly

[metalmayhem]

I'm only running tormachs in my shop which aren't ideal but they hold their own considering my competitors are running haas at the minimum . My only system for running optimal feed rates is either what I know works or if they consistently break then I back off 10% til they don't

large companies are better supported here , they get the better rates than smaller companies like mine and it's a 2-3 tier pricing system . For example - yrs ago I walked into one company looking into buying garr and the guy quoted me $36 for a 3/32 bn . When I laughed at him and said I'm not paying that for a stinkin garr he said oh I thought you said 3/16" then came at me with a different price , even still I walked out empty handed . I knew their prices when I walked in there because the company I worked for at the time bought from them and I could have got a 3/8 for 36 bux .

Yesterday I talked over the phone with one company who i forgot sent me a quote a couple weeks ago . He sent me his contact info for when I want to order . I looked back and saw the quote which is almost exactly double for the kyocera than what i normally pay . I sent an email asking if they have better prices since this is double what it should be , and no reply yet lol .
I'd like to support companies in my own country but it's not going to happen since most of them want to stick it to me

[ToolHIT]

The Kyocera Micro End Mills are excellent! Their Sub-Micron grade of Carbide is excellent and they grind their tools to a sharp edge with a polished finish while also having a 30 degree helix for strength. The YG ALU-Powers all have a dead sharp edge with a 45 degree helix, which makes it quite a bit weaker than the Kyocera (and explains why you were breaking tools).

We do carry the Kyocera End Mills but we are out of the US and ship from our warehouse there. We do ship to Canada often but can't find a carrier with an economical rate so a lot of customers ship freight collect to keep costs down. If you have shipping recommendations from the US to Canada please pass them on!

3/32" Diameter x .279" LOC 3XD 4 Flute Ball Nose Uncoated:
https://www.toolhit.com/products/00945sgs

3/32" Diameter x .279" LOC 3XD 4 Flute Ball Nose ALTIN Coated:
https://www.toolhit.com/products/02633sgs

Not sure if this helps or not, just giving you another option.

Thanks!

Mike

[metalmayhem]

Thanks Mike . I ordered 15 from you 3 weeks ago and still waiting on word of when they will ship

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
whoops! Embarrassing.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

Hi,
whoops! Embarrassing.

Craig

well , to be fair I can understand a reasonable delay in getting in stock , except we're pretty much past that point of reason and I need tools now

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I've become accustomed to seeing whether the parts are in stock, or have to be ordered in, and that will influence my choices.

My experience is that US suppliers seem to be very shy about international shipping. You NEED a freight agent in the US.

I've just bought some parts from a company in Michigan. My freight agent is in Oregon. Got from Michigan to Oregon is 36 hours and cost about $10USD.
So if the US supplier does not have to mess around with international shipping then they are fine.

My freight agent is NZPost. They contacted me to tell me that the parts had arrived at Oregon, Saturday morning NZ time. I supplied the details, like the US invoice and NZPost calculated
the NZ tax and the freight, I paid online, and the parts are already in flight to NZ, Tuesday afternoon NZ time.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

I have friends in the US who will help when I need it , usually something from ebay or whatnot that won't ship here . For my business I don't like going through third parties . I used a ship forward company once , cost me huge in damaged carbides . They repackaged the box , they took every tool out of the tube and threw everything into the box unprotected , after all the bouncing around they were pretty much all chipped . These were anywhere from 1/4 - 3/4" end mills , I ruled out ever doing that again

I have plenty of tool companies I deal with without problems with shipping , stock or whatnot . I'm good with shipping costs and it's just the cost of doing business . The problem that I have is this one specific tool and finding a reliable source . I've got a possible alternative brand on the way and i hope it works because it'll save me a headache .

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

They repackaged the box , they took every tool out of the tube and threw everything into the box unprotected , after all the bouncing around they were pretty much all chipped . These were anywhere from 1/4 - 3/4" end mills , I ruled out ever doing that again

Why would they even open the box? NZPost don't open anything or repackage or anything like that, they don't have the authority to do so to my knowledge. Perhaps if they had reason
to believe that there was something in the parcel that could risk an aircraft maybe? The only time I've ever had a parcel opened is NZ Customs....and they always put a sticker on it to indicate
that the parcel was inspected. I've had two parcels in 15 years where it was opened for inspection.

The service I use has a minimum freight charge of $39NZD. That's for anything up to 500g, thereafter it starts going up. The parts I've just gotten must weigh very little because the freight was
only $39NZD, but they are over $500NZD in value so I pay a High-Value surcharge of $6NZD. I have to pay GST, an NZ local tax of 15%....so the GST costs more than the freight. The good news
is that Customs know that all the paperwork is OK and that GST has been paid so I don't think customs even bothers looking at my parcels via NZPost.

Not a really cheap service, but fair value, but easy, reliable, all above board, proper taxes paid and all that with receipts and invoices to give to the office....too easy.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

Hi,



Why would they even open the box? NZPost don't open anything or repackage or anything like that, they don't have the authority to do so to my knowledge. Perhaps if they had reason
to believe that there was something in the parcel that could risk an aircraft maybe?
Craig

No idea why they did it but they did it which is why I won't use a ship forward company again . That time I bought from a company that only sold in the US and the ship forward seemed like a decent option at the time , it wasn't . Bongo international if I recall correctly . I think fedex eventually bought them out .



I never really have a problem with postal services , ups , fedex etc and I buy a ridiculous amount of stuff from the US for business or personal use . Shipping costs can be high but I'm used to it , and it's even expensive shipping within my own country

The biggest problem is a lot of the sellers think that filling in the customs form is a huge deal , but the reality is that they only need to state what it is and how much . I do it all the time because I ship international . Not rocket science but they miss out on the opportunity of a wider audience

[deadlykitten]

Not sure if this helps or not, just giving you another option.

Thanks!

Mike

Thanks Mike . I ordered 15 from you 3 weeks ago and still waiting on word of when they will ship

world is so small

Why would they even open the box? NZPost don't open anything or repackage or anything like that, they don't have the authority to do so to my knowledge. Perhaps if they had reason

arround here, some international shipments, are opened in front your eyes by local authorities, so not to complain about damaging your stuff; thus i mean international border agencies, not some private agents

but in other places, where is a lot of trafic, maybe they do this repack in a rush, for whatever reason, and they speed up, so losses happen; i am sorry for your lost

[ToolHIT]

Well, I feel dumb. I'm sorry Metalmayhem, I had no idea. We will make sure they ship right away and will email you an update this morning! So sorry again!

Mike