[Elernaeh]

So to clarify we should test the following:

PULSE BOB pin O14 -> Servopack pin 7
Servopack pin 8 -> 300 Ohm resistor -> 5V

DIR pin O16 -> Servopack pin 11
Servopack pin 12 -> 300 Ohm resistor -> 5v

Servopack pin 6 -> GND

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Yes, that is correct.

Craig

[MikeTerasT]

From my side, Craig, man, your amazing.
When this is all finished and done, we have to send you some kind of package aswell from Estonia.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I have just been double checking and I'm wrong.

Pin 7 5V via 300Ohm
Pin 8 O14 BoB
Pin 11 5V via 300Ohm
pin 12 O16 BoB

So, the only difference is that the pins are swapped over from your first scheme. Provided you have that 300Ohm resistor between the 5V form the BoB to any pin
of the drive you will be safe....it may not work if you choose the wrong pin, but the resistor should prevent too much current flowing and damage the drive even if you do
make a mistake.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Yaskawa are far from unique, most if not all modern AC servos have instructions/procedures that are very similar to each other.
As I posted earlier I use Delta servos, and there are differences in terminology and in Deltas case the internal supply is 24V rather than Yaskawas 12V supply, but the same
general concerns apply.

The attached pics are how a Delta drive comes as new....note the sticker covering the input socket. It shows the correct way to signal the input optocouplers and the wrong way
to do so, with the explicit warning that failure to follow will result in damage to the optocouplers. This warning is repeated in the documentation, but Delta felt the need to make
a plainly evident warning in the form of a sticker. Delta, identically to Yaskawa, explicitly require a current limiting resistor IF you use an off-drive power supply.

You should spend some time studying the optocoupler input circuit so you understand the necessity of the current limit resistor. Provided you do so you'll have no trouble using these drives,
failure to do so will result in VERY costly drive failures.

Craig

[MikeTerasT]

WOOOOO!!!!
We got it working!!
We added 300 Ohm resistors, flipped the wires and now we can jog through UCCNC controller.

Craig you have been an amazing help and you brought us back from the brink of oblivion
If you can Direct message me your information. I would like to transfer you your prize. You have more than earned it with the effort you put in.

If you have any extra tips on how to setup these servos from the software side. What to look out for, what is most important and any general Ideas, that would be amazing.

If you can explain us in a clear way, what is the benefit of using the enable signal instead of keeping them always on.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
kool.

I have no particular need or desire for a reward. If you feel inclined I would be obliged if you were to make a donation to Ukraine instead.
Ukraine, in fact all the East European nations have been a hotbed of innovation and experimentation in the field of CNC. Any support or donation
that might foster that innovation in peacetime is worthy and any support or donation that supports protection of life in wartime is doubly worthy.

If you can explain us in a clear way, what is the benefit of using the enable signal instead of keeping them always on.

All servos monitor the actual position relative to the commanded position. If the difference becomes too large, called following error, then the servo will issue a fault, and usually stop.
In the context of a machine where three or four or more servos are operating in concert if any one servo stops then all the others must stop too, or a crash will result or a misshapen part
that happens with steppers from time to time when one stepper loses steps. For this reason it is all but required that each servo have at least one output as an ALARM.
It would signal any alarm condition including following error, over voltage, over current, over heat etc. The CNC control system should detect that ALARM and stop the machine.
One possibility is to have any one ALARM signal cause an Estop, and then the controller will stop issuing movement commands not only to the faulty servo but all the servos, and thereafter they
stop.

Another possibility is that any one ALARM signal causes either an Estop or a feedhold but also makes the ENABLE signal inactive.

This is what happens with my machine. When Mach4 (the controlling software application) is enabled it will make the ENABLE signal active. The one ENABLE signal is commoned to all my servos and
spindle. My Z axis servo has an electromagnetic brake. When the servo is enabled the brake is deactivated, and the rotation of the armature is under control of the servo drive which is in turn
under control of Mach4. If however the ENABLE signal is inactive as a result of an ALARM or me disabling Mach, or an Estop, then not only does the Z axis servo stop but the electromagnetic brake comes
on (its default status) and therefore the Z axis armature is prevented from rotating. This prevents the Z axis back driving the ballscrew/armature and descending into the work area, a dangerous phenomenon.

For the sake of one wire to each servo I deemed it correct to use ENABLE.

You require at least one ALARM output, but you can have more. For instance the over voltage, over current and over heat faults will immediately stop the servo, this is the drive trying to protect itself
and the servo, and usually there is no choice about that, its baked into the manufacturers firmware of the drive. Should such a fault occur the servo will stop and all the other servos must also stop,
so an Estop is appropriate. But what about a following error? This means that the servo is lagging a certain number of encoder counts from its commanded position, certainly causing an inaccuracy of a part,
but not a catastrophic fault. Rather than an Estop you might consider a Feed Hold, this would give the servo a chance to catch up. If you wanted to do some programming you might also call the machine to reduce
the feed rate by a certain percentage to allow the one servo more time to faithfully execute its position commands.

You can see that having different alarm conditions for different situations allows you to tailor your machines response to each condition. This is a marked increase in capability that you might expect from a
stepper. Many machine manufacturers exploit these features to give their machines marketable advantages.

I should point out that my own machine has only one alarm output programmed despite there being quite a range to choose from. I had thought that at some later date I would have more than one alarm output and
program various machine responses. In the two years I've been running my machine I've had zero genuine alarm conditions, excepting if I do something stupid like crashing it or some other nonsense.
In truth there are many improvements I'd like to make to my machine, and this one is way WAY down the list.

If you have any extra tips on how to setup these servos from the software side. What to look out for, what is most important and any general Ideas, that would be amazing.

I presume that you have gotten the servos to work you have negotiated the electronic gearing problem? Electronic gearing is another feature that distinguishes servos from steppers and can and should be used to your advantage.
If you elect to have a very fine resolution, say 25000 counts per rev, then at 3000rpm you would be required to signal the servo drive at 1.25MHz, which is not very practical. If you chose a resolution of 2500 counts per rev
then at 3000rpm the signal rate would be 125kHz which is in the range of single ended signaling such as you are using.

I have set the resolution of my servos to 5000 counts per rev and can send the servos to 5000rpm so the required signaling rate is 416.667 kHz. This requires differential signaling. Thus the choice of resolution
determines the signal rate which determines the electronic hardware you need to do it. It is something that you might revisit down the track.

I presume also that you have some auto-tune facility and you have used it. Alternately the manufacturer will set the tuning defaults to some reasonable values that will probably result in fair tuning from the factory.
Tuning servos is a very in depth study, and not something that is usefully discussed in this thread at this time, but the bottom line is that if your machine is in the 'sweet spot', that is to say the inertia ratio
is anywhere from 2:1 to 10:1 then Yaskawa's auto-tune feature is likely as good as you'll need and unlikely that you could improve on. Beyond 10:1 inertia ratios there is increasing scope for
manually improving the tuning, at the same time there is equal scope for decreasing tuning response if you don't know how to go about it! I would assume your machine is in the sweet spot and get it doing solid work
before you consider manual tuning.

I think the best use of your time is just to get the machine going and doing useful work. Its that experience that will illuminate any deficiencies in tuning and/or control. Because servos are so tunable and have so many features
its very easy to fall into the trap of fiddling with the tuning etc at the expense of doing the work.

Craig

[Elernaeh]

Hi wanted to report on some successes on our part.
We got the control signals worked out. The axis are moving. We ordered the breakout board you suggested from cncroom. It was a bit of a challenge to get things sorted out, but we almost managed it. The last thing we have issues, is how should we connect the ALARM output from the servopacks to the BoB.

The relevant section from the manual is attached.

The relevant pins are 31 and 32 on the servopack.

Tried:
BoB 0V -> Servopack pin 31 ALARM+
BoB NPN Input -> Servopack pin32 ALARM-

When measuring resistance in ALARM output, then when the alarm was triggered the ALARM pins had a resistance of 12 Kohms and when no alarm, then 14 Kohms.

Greetings,
Gert

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
like almost all modern AC servos the digital output is an isolated phototransistor. When the phototransistor is excited by the photodiode the collector-emitter
path will conduct and when the photodiode is not excited then the collector-emitter path is open circuit, or near to it.

Measuring resistance is a poor way to establish the conductive state of the phototransistor.

The phototransistor is isolated so could be used to source current (also called PNP output) or sink current (also called NPN output).
I prefer sinking outputs, but there is not much in it.

In the attached pic when the phototransistor is conducting it sinks current from the BoB via the current limit resistance. You would choose the resistance so that the current is about 10mA.
For a 5V excitation about 500Ohm
For a 12V excitation about 1.2kOhm
For a 24V excitation about 2.4kOhm

The output to the UC300 would be low, say 0.5v or less.

When phototransistor is not conducting the output to the UC300 is held high by the excitation voltage, whatever that happens to be, via the current limit resistance and clipped to 4.7V by the Zener diode.
The Zener is just to ensure that at no time an excess of 5V is applied to the UC300, it will NOT tolerate it.

Craig

[MikeTerasT]

Hello!

I have been quiet for a while, but only because life got out of hand, we were busy with a lot of stuff and did not have the time for anything. Now is a more quiet moment and I wanted to say.

Thankyou Joe from all our heart. We still have to figure out the alarm system (time constraints again). But everything else we got working and reliably as well. These servos are amazing, so fast, its scary. Our cut quality went much higher, time savings are 3-4 Fold and finally we feel that all these years are finally starting to pay off. So thankyou! If you ever come visit Estonia, you are welcome to visit our shop.

Adventures we had along the road:

BOB blew up. Somehow we sent 24 volts through the servo back to the BOB. Wrongly wired alarm system was the cause. But it gave us a chance to upgrade without a doubt to the new type. Which is much better and a more clear design. Luckily the main brain was not fried, so we could install it directly on the new bob. 200 Euro fix.

For weeks we were struggling with Encoder wiring fault which said to check connections, cables, rust, moisture etc. Sometimes it would work for hours, and then only seconds. No pattern to it. We checked everything, Re soldered everything, Bypassed plugs with direct soldering. Doubted everything in life. Opened up Servo motors to resolder new wires(some cables on a Few of the motors were damaged from shipping) Depression was setting in. And then as a last hail Mary. We looked at the cabling inside the switchboard it self. Since I work as a sailor. I am used to bringing outside Cables into the cabinet, and then switching over to normal cables through terminals. And those normal wires were the culprit. F*cking cross talk between cables. After bypassing the terminals and continuing shielded cables straight to the servos and BOB etc. All of those problems were fixed. We thought this cross talk only exists in Physics books. Money spent 0€,Time spent ~15 hours. 2 persons.

Spindel was not starting anymore, Low voltage alarm. Servos were giving the same error. But voltage on all 3 phases was good. No problems. No sparking.... So we started testing phases under load. During this procedure X axis servo pack blew up. Holy S*it. HUGE cloud of smoke. Depression. By some miracle we managed to fix the servo pack since the only thing that blew up was a huge capacitor. Whew. Looks like the culprit was an AliExpress Main switch for the cabinet which was creating a voltage drop under load. And this created unstable voltage during testing and possibly some overcurrent in the system which blew the servo capacitor. Installed a new proper switch together with a Under/over voltage protection module. The switch was ordered many many years ago when money was tight. Fixing the servo pack 8€, New switch + under/over protection module 200€

What a journey.
Thank you Joe for taking the time to focus on our problem and not just telling us that we ordered everything wrong, that the machine will never work, we have wrong servos and everything else is also wrong. You are the type of person why people come to these forums. To actually get help and share their experience.

Mike out!

[joeavaerage]

Hi Mike,

These servos are amazing, so fast, its scary. Our cut quality went much higher, time savings are 3-4 Fold and finally we feel that all these years are finally starting to pay off. So thankyou!

I use Delta servos, but I too find them scary fast, so much that most times I deliberately slow them down.

I haven't had quite the problems that you have encountered. I did however have quite a battle using differential signaling. It was really just a matter of experimenting until you came to the right arrangement,
analyze what makes that particular arrangement work so you can replicate it throughout the machine. I too recall times where I was very discouraged. Once you get over that hump though the results are
very satisfying and the lessons learned last a lifetime.

Both your machine and mine are fairly basic and straight forward, very much using the servos, controller and BoB as they were intended....and yet it was still not easy. You can imagine then when
a newcomer proposes some nonstandard arrangement, or some other complication, I try to steer them away from that, at least initially. I had entirely enough problems with a near standard
installation without taking on some other more complex arrangement!!

I made my own breakout board. Firstly electronics is my thing, and in truth a breakout board is far from complex as electronic projects go. This in particular allowed me to design for
impedance levels of the input circuits that make my circuitry relatively immune from noise. If I'm silly enough to lie a Limit Switch cable right next to the VFD output cable....then yes, I get noise.
But unless I do something silly, I do not have noise issues, none of my cables are screened for instance, yet no noise.

The idea is that each circuit be 'loaded' with a resistance to earth such that it takes a very substantial noise impulse to cause a voltage disturbance big enough to cause a fault.

Since we last corresponded, I have finished my trunnion fifth axis. It was quite a long and expensive build, and especially saving up the money for the two servos, the low lash gearboxes and so on
takes time. I'll post a pic when I get into work, I don't have one on my home PC. I was not really intending on replacing my little 800W 24000rpm spindle, but I saw this spindle advertised a few days before Christmas.
A few emails with the seller who has turned out to be a very generous person and I hit the <Buy Now> button. It's on its way from Ho Chi Mihn City, and is already passed through Guangzhou and Singapore on the way
to New Zealand. It is 3.5kW continuous, 6kW peak, 10,000rpm rated and 40,000rpm max, 400V (ie three phase required) with an HSK32 ATC tool interface. The price includes ten HSK32 to ER20 tool holders and free shipping to New Zealand.
As I say the seller is very generous. Looking forward to it arrival. I now have to save up for a VFD big enough to drive.....there is always something!!!

Craig

[MikeTerasT]

ATC is on my dream list as well, slowly preparing towards it. Looking forward to your pictures and adventures.
Could you post the link here to which equipment you purchased?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I just used the engine hoist to get the trunnion table into the mill, it weighs about 80kg so is not so easy. I got the A axis going nicely, that it to say the trunnion,
but have yet to properly program the C axis (platter). Still need to make limit and home switches and covers, especially for the belt to the C axis reducer.....
but its coming along.

The spindle is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186219659270

The guy I bought it off is a DIY CNCer, rather than a business. Well impressed with his generosity. He seems to have some interesting spindle etc for sale. Definitely worth checking out his listings.

Craig