[hobomachinist]

What's an interpreter? Is that software like a 3d printer slicer kind of? Or am I way off?

[Bubba]

in computer terms, all computers operate on 'machine language instructions' which are not friendly to reading by normal humans.
A compiler takes in the human readable form and outputs a file that is readable by the computer. This is done one time and can be re-read by the machine as many times as desired.
Whereas and interpreter takes the human readable code and converts it to machine code on fly line by line and feeds it to the computer. It has to do this each time you want to run that code/program. This of course takes more time to run the code as it has to be translated each time it is run.
Actually in your case of slicer to gcode, it is neither a compiler nor interpreter as it is changing the model to human readable code which is then fed into the compiled firmware on your printer controller to be converted to signals to the printer electronics to cause correct motions.
HTH

[hobomachinist]

in computer terms, all computers operate on 'machine language instructions' which are not friendly to reading by normal humans.
A compiler takes in the human readable form and outputs a file that is readable by the computer. This is done one time and can be re-read by the machine as many times as desired.
Whereas and interpreter takes the human readable code and converts it to machine code on fly line by line and feeds it to the computer. It has to do this each time you want to run that code/program. This of course takes more time to run the code as it has to be translated each time it is run.
Actually in your case of slicer to gcode, it is neither a compiler nor interpreter as it is changing the model to human readable code which is then fed into the compiled firmware on your printer controller to be converted to signals to the printer electronics to cause correct motions.
HTH

I see..I never thought about it like that it's pretty obvious now. I used 3d printing as the only example I have experienced that uses g code...but that's not why I'm here. I have a idea that I'm finally diving into which is making or converting a mill.dosent matter to me. I use prototrak daily but thats the extent of my CNC milling experience. Anyhow I had a conversation with a fella at work that configures all the drives of the machines..he said I should determine what interpreter I want firsti nodded and agreed (I had no idea what that meant)..did a quick Google search..and landed on mach 4? I printed the manual today..but I only skimmed it at work...is that like a user interface and a interpreter? I should also mention I use fusion 360 daily for solid modeling at work and then make 2d drawings..walk it over to the Bridgeport with prototrak...but I'd really like to know if I can do this in my garage on this fantasy CNC mill I haven't built yet...3d model in fusion....make tool paths in fusion..and send it to mach 4? Does mach send the translated info to drives then?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I have used Mach4 and an Ethernet SmoothStepper for eight years.

Mach4 is a CNC software program that accepts Gcode, either written by hand or from a CAM program like Fusion (I use Fusion also). Mach4 'interprets' the Gcode and posts numeric
trajectory data to a motion controller. So Mach4 decides and coordinates all the accelerations, decelerations, constant velocity moves that enact the Gcode. The motion control board, in my case an Ethernet SmoothStepper
then converts that numeric data into an accurately timed pulse streams which hook to the stepper drives/servo drives with the benefit of a breakout board. The breakout board does not really 'do' anything,
its just an amplifier/buffer and a convenient means to connect wires to. It could be as simple as a C10 for $23.00 up to an MB3 for $180 depending on the features you want.

Does mach send the translated info to drives then?

No, not quite, as I explained above Mach converts the Gcode into a string of numeric position commands in 1 millisecond intervals. Its the matching motion controller that completes the generation of pulse streams
required for the motor drivers.

That you already use Fusion daily, and have considerable experience on Prototrak you'll accommodate the differences in a breeze and you can run any machine you like with it. Attached a pic of my homebuilt mill, also
attached a pic of my home brew fourth axis, and an even later shot of my conversion of the fourth axis into a trunnion table and rotary fifth axis. This is all running on Mach4 on a 'cheap as chips' PC.

Craig

[hobomachinist]

Thanks Craig. Its becoming more clear I think. So my understanding now is that the flow would be like this. Fusion drawing or model ..send to fusion toolpath...send to mach...then mach sends info off to controller....then to drives..? Also when you say break out board is that another way of saying controller? or is breakout board in addition to the controller? Your machine looks very stout. slightly bigger than what im envisioning. The one im dreaming up is the same workable area as a tormach 440 just a hair bigger...7x12? What are you making with the 2 extra axis? That seems like a whole new level of brain hurt im not ready for.. and HOLY e stop!
Are you running steppers? Im thinking closed loop steppers..the fella i mentioned eailer gave me 4 moog servos but i cant find any info really on how to control them or hook them up...they are moog 304-131a....so thats why im thinking steppers ...just seems like i could get up and running faster and steppers seem to have way more info online when it comes to how to's.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

So my understanding now is that the flow would be like this. Fusion drawing or model ..send to fusion toolpath...send to mach...then mach sends info off to controller....then to drives..?

Yes, that is essentially correct.

Also when you say break out board is that another way of saying controller? or is breakout board in addition to the controller?

A breakout board does not usually perform any logic function but is just and intermediate board. Some motion controllers do the motion control job, ie generate pulse streams but in addition have amplifiers and/or buffers and
present those signals to the real world in plugs/sockets or screw terminations. Other motion controllers like my Ethernet SmoothStepper just present it signals at computer levels, ie 5V and without any buffers or other amplifiers.
Such motion controllers benefit from a breakout board. The buffers/amplifiers offer some protection to the motion controller should something bad happen in one of your drives. You don't want some external fault from rifling
back to your motion controller and wrecking it.

I have posted a pic of my breakout board. Electronics is my thing, so I made my own. In fact, I've made about three of them, each one better and more complete than the last. Note that each servo has its own plug. The motor output
signals are differential for max speed and noise immunity. In addition there is an Enable, a Reset and an Alarm signal in each servo socket. There is a spindle ON/OFF relay, a spindle PWM circuit, an electromagnetic brake output for the Z axis,
all the inputs, about 20 of them and four sourcing and sinking 24V outputs spare. The ESS is the small green board (seen upside down), and that plugs into the LED board below it. That means that every input and output has an LED to indicate
its status, really helpful for diagnostics. The bottom board has the buffers and level translators, power supplies , spindle circuits and brake circuit.. All the inputs and outputs are 24V excepting the differential motor outputs.

The ESS has a total of 51 inputs and outputs. My breakout board makes use of all of them, and suit my machine.

I have the satisfaction of designing my own breakout board to suit my machine, but many others are not electronically inclined. Those people often end up choosing an MB3 breakout board from CNCRoom in Malaysia ($180).
It also use all 51 inputs and outputs, has differential motor outputs, relays and spindle PWM. In general, a well thought out, fully developed board at a very fair price.

Are you running steppers? Im thinking closed loop steppers..the fella i mentioned eailer gave me 4 moog servos but i cant find any info really on how to control them or hook them up...they are moog 304-131a....so thats why im thinking steppers ...just seems like i could get up and running faster and steppers seem to have way more info online when it comes to how to's.

I used steppers on my previous min-mill but this machine is all 750W Delta B2 series servos. Servos are quite a premium over steppers but then a servo eats any stepper ever made. They are blazing fast, have high resolution with
great positional accuracy and three to fourfold torque overload.

https://www.fasttobuy.com/flange-80m...er_p28084.html

I now have five of these servo kits on my machine, X, Y, Z, A, B axes...and the Z axis servo has a built-in electromagnetic brake. If the machine Estops or the power fails the electromagnetic brake comes on, its natural status,
and prevents the Z axis from falling into the work zone.

I am not a fan of closed loop steppers. The manufacturers claim more power, faster, never miss a step....all BS. A stepper loses torque the faster it goes, and closed loop steppers are no exception. If a closed loop stepper is marginally overloaded
it will miss a step....and the drive will insert an extra step to catch up, but the extra step is just as likely to be missed as an ordinary one. Closed loop does give you better resolution with feedback interpolation and the stepper
can determine if it's losing too many steps and fault out rather than carry on making a misshapen part, but overall, those small advantages don't justify the extra cost. Good low inductance open loop steppers with high voltage drivers
and supply will be nearly as good and for less money. If you really want closed loop performance buy AC servos and be done with it.

I would not recommend secondhand servos, as you point out it can be difficult and expensive to find the right drivers. If you want servos buy the servo and driver as a matched pair. Trying to mix and match servo and drives is for
servo experts. Also, there are plenty of cheap Chinese servos, and while they all seem to work, the documentation is anywhere from fair to bad, the support fair to bad, and no setup and tuning software. If you've never fiddled
with servos before you'll want, even need, that setup and tuning software.

I use Delta, a Taiwanese brand made in China. Another good choice is DMM, a Canadian brand made in China. Both are good performance, quality, support and documentation and free set up and tuning software at fair prices,
not cheap but fair. A lot less than Japanese, US or European made servos anyway.

It would be a reasonable plan to build your machine with steppers, but at a later date when the budget has recovered upgrade to servos. If you give some though to the initial design, then such an upgrade
is easy.

My machine has travels of 350mm x 350mm x 350mm. It as cast-iron axis beds with 32mm diameter by 5mm pitch C5 ground double nut ballscrews by THK, new old stock 20mm heavy duty THK linear rails and cars.
The frame is made from two 'L' shaped pieces of 32mm steel. I'd like to think my machine is better than a Tormach 440 and even a match for an 1100. Whether Tormach owners agree or not is another matter! One thing about my machine
is that it's all my own design and build, and good or bad, no one can take away the satisfaction that I've gotten from that.

Four and five axis adds a whole new range of possible parts that can be made. The hardware I've made to date has cost about $5500NZD (3300USD), and the Fusion Machining Extensions that give you simultaneous four and five
axis toolpaths, collision avoidance etc. costs another $2200NZD ($1320USD) per year....so it's been an expensive exercise. I have yet to come up with a five axis Fusion post....so that's another battle in my future.
The Fusion Mach4 post is four axis capable and I've been using that for nearly a year, and that's very capable. Adding a fifth axis is another step up. This hobby (obsession) sure has plenty to keep you engaged!

Craig

[hobomachinist]

This hobby (obsession) sure has plenty to keep you engaged!

Very true. Okay. Let's say going with the stepper first and servo later idea. What's a fair control and breakout that could do both steppers now and servos later..that works well with mach 4 and fusion we have been talking about? Been looking online but the options are endless.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I think perhaps the first question you might ask is 'what software I want to use?.' Mach4 is what I use and can assure you that it works well, but it is far from the only choice.
Of the most common and well supported CNC software out there I think its worthwhile for you to do a little research rather than rely on my own opinion. Its not that I'm trying to lead you astray
but I am biased to the solutions that I know.

I presume you are familiar with Mach, my recommendation is Mach4. Mach4 all but requires an external motion controller. There are six manufacturers of Mach4 motion controllers, all with
advantages and disadvantages. Of them I use the Ethernet SmoothStepper. Its good quality, good support and very capable at fair prices. But others like PoKeys 57CNC are likewise capable
and good value. If you decide that 'yes, Mach4 is for me' then come back and do some more research on which particular manufacturer has the best features and cost for your purposes.

UCCNC is CNC software developed by CNCDrive in Hungary. They have a number of external motion controllers that match the software, of which the UC300 or the AXBB-E are the flagship models.
UCCNC is a software that runs on a Windows PC. It is broadly very similar to Mach4 and has a large and loyal user base, and CNCDrive support their customers well. Interestingly the same motion controllers
can also be used for Mach4.

Another choice is LinuxCNC. As the name implies it runs on a specialist distro of Linux. The software is free, which is very appealing. Unlike the two Windows solutions above LinuxCNC is a realtime system and can
and does use a parallel port to very VERY good advantage. Most use one of the moderately priced Mesa boards rather than a parallel port. All-in-all LinunuxCNC is very capable and has a very strong and supportive user base.
For simple machines very little programming is required, but for more complex machines or analog servos for example then programming becomes very important. If you are a 'C' capable programmer then LinuxCNC is very
attractive. If however you are not a computer geek then it is less appealing.

Just as an example of how LinuxCNC has permeated the market, the current Haas controller is their own version of LinuxCNC, as is PathPilot, the Tormach control system.

As I said if you are computer savvy then LinuxCNC is a very good choice.

Yet another solution is Centroid Acorn. This is software than runs on a PC and is matched to their own motion control/breakout board combination. It is all supplied by one vendor, and consequently is somewhat less
flexible than Mach, UCCNC or LinuxCNC, but is as near to a turn key solution there is. Many users report great results. I believe the solution is about $450USD, which makes it price competitive with the other solutions
I've mentioned.

There are even more solutions, but I have only second and third hand information on, but are worth looking at. Edging CNC is one. Another one is Masso. Its a complete solution is a box for about $1400USD.

As I posted earlier I've used servos on my new machine. They are $438USD each and another $150USD for three day Fedex to New Zealand , so they cost in effect $588USD each, and I've got five of them. My ESS costs $225USD.
What I'm trying to get at is that often the value of the machine is quite high and the proportion spent on a motion control and software is a very modest fraction of the whole. Don't get too carried away trying to save
money on a controller and matching software, its more important that you find a controller and software that suits your needs and has the flexibility to accommodate expansion that you might consider in the years to come.
Research is free.

By the way, I forgot in the last post to attach the pic of my breakout board, I'll attach it to this post.

Craig

[hobomachinist]

Thanks for introducing me to acorn. That seems more like what im looking for perhaps. I will do some of that free research into it. Thank you for all of your awesome advice and boosting the confidence levels. Its very cool you can make your own control...you're a mad man! (in a good way) I think ill leave this here for now. you really cleared some stuff up for me that i can come back and read..this is much better than trying to retain info some one is explaining to you in person and it goes in one ear and out the other. I'm postive we will "see" eachother around on here. *highfive and emojis*

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

That seems more like what im looking for perhaps.

Yes, Acorn has garnered a good reputation amongst CNCers whom are not strong in electronics and control, its still not easy but very doable.
I see the basic kit is $329 with the free version of the software. The upgrade of the software to the Pro version adds another $159, I think its worth it.
In particular I think you'll like conversational programming, its very much like Prototrak.

.you're a mad man! (in a good way)

Just a madman anyway! I have a reputation to live down to!

Craig