[jjlee32]

Hi friends,

I recently purchased and assembled QueenBee pro from Bulkman and I have it all working properly per their instructions . The queen bee has 1 x motor, 2 y motors, and one z. The videos they uploaded the A axis for the second Y motor. I want to use this machine as a tangential cutter and from what i gather Mach3 can only support tangential on the A axis output. So in my head i need to:

- Move the Y2 motor from the A axis in Mach3 to B or C (here is where i am struggling)
-Use A for my knife stepper

I cannot seem to figure out how what the correct input for Step Pin and Dir Pin for these auxiliary axis.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
do yourself a favour and ditch Mach3. All development ceased on it eight years ago and notwithstanding it still works its obsolete.
Mach4 is the new version and is light years ahead.

One area in particular where its better is it does not have any of the 're-imagining the A axis as a second gantry motor'. Every axis in Mach4 has one master and up to four slaves.
Thus with Mach4 you can retain both the gantry motors AND have A, B and C axes without clash.

Craig

[jjlee32]

Thanks Craig,

Ill have to give it a try. I got so pigeonhole focused on making mach3 work since that's what they prescribed that I totally forgot about mach4.

I just did some googlin' (pretty sure i am reading your answers on a different forum regarding a similar issue in mach4, not sure if im allowed to link to it) and i might be putting the horse before the carriage here as this might be a non issue but it seems like the pin mapping in mach 4 is much easier than it is in mach3? Any other general recommendations? Ethernet instead of the usb i am currently using?

i really appreciate your reply, i have been scowering the internet for weeks, but it all makes sense why I couldn't find any information.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Mach4 looks and behaves very similarly to Mach3 but its a totally new product sharing no code what so ever.

Mach4 occasioned a lot of bad press by people whom were upgrading from Mach3 to Mach4, and from personal experience I can tell you that it is justified, its a hell of a learning curve.
This was made worse because I was so familiar with Mach3 and I was mistakenly conflating the two. I did however get to upgrade my Mach3 machine and I've been using Mach4 for eight years
and its light years ahead. Once upon a time you'd seem to have to reload Mach3 every few months because it had gotten corrupted. I've had the just the one build of Mach4 on my machine
for about 18 months, and before that I used a build that was over four years old when I swapped it out. Mach4 is vastly more stable and reliable.

I run my machine on a dual core Atom single board PC with 3G RAM and no graphics card, so a chunk of memory is used for video. This little Windows 7 PC has been running my machine for ten years
and yet it 'wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding'. In runs Mach4 just fine. Its slow to load and do the toolpath draw with large files, say 5M or bigger taking a minute or so....but thereafter its fine. Mach4 is not a power hungry
application, one of the kids cast off school laptops would be ample for it.

There is a good thread on the Mach4 forum that describes the many advantages of Mach4 over Mach3, when I find it I will post it. To my knowledge its not against any forum rules to post a link to another
forum, provided its genuine and does not disrespect any forum principles on this forum.

Warp9TD make the Ethernet SmoothStepper, which is a good value and good quality Mach4 ready motion controller. More recently they had a hand in designing and developing the Warprunner
breakout/THC board....and this has put them ahead of all other manufacturers of Mach4 ready motion controllers. High bandwidth THC and good Anti-Dive...whats not to like?. They are in the $400 to $450
range, but for anyone looking to get good plasma performance that is money well spent.

Ethernet instead of the usb i am currently using?

I doubt you'll find many Mach4 ready motion controllers that are USB, and certainly not for plasma. Plasma is just too electrically noisy for USB to be reliable.

Just to be clear if you have a USB Mach3 controller then its highly probable that that controller will not work with Mach4. The manufacturers whom have taken the effort to write a Mach4
plugin for their device/devices will often operate Mach3 OR Mach4 but many Chinese Mach3 controllers do not have a Mach4 plugin and will not therefore work.

Craig

[jjlee32]

Thanks Craig,

Well i feel lucky that I didnt get much deeper than the setting up axis limit, home directions, and other general stuff in the demo version and didn't really have time to get used to mach3.

I have been running it from my super powerful work computer but with the plan of gong to SBC like a Pi or some crappy Chromebook once i got all the kinks worked out so I am glad to hear that mach4 isnt as resource intensive as i'd imagine.

Sorry i wasn't more clear with the usb versus ethernet question. The queenbee kit came with the Digital dream uc300 that did come with a vga type adapter (not sure if its actually vga, it just resembles it). So I am assuming that i can interface with the UC300 via that connection I was just using usb because that's what they had in their assembly/configuration videos. Or are you suggesting that with the switch to mach4 ill need a different control system?

I don't plan on doing any plasma work with this system but it would be cool to utilize the torch down/up functions for a pneumatic solenoid i designed into my cuter head rather than use Z to retract and extend but this is a nice-to-have and lower priority than getting everything functional.

Really appreciate the information thus far.

James

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Ok I was confusing two threads where one thread is about a guy trying to decide whether to replace his control system, and his is a plasma machine.

Would you post a couple of shots of your motion controller. The UC300 is a model name of a motion board made by CNCDrive in Hungary. To my knowledge,
the UC300 has always been Ethernet, that is to say Ethernet to the PC. The UC300 itself has five ports wired similarly to a parallel port but with 26 pin IDC headers.
If indeed you have a UC300 then there is no need to change it. In fact, you have a choice to run it with Mach4 or with UCCNC, the software by CNCDrive. Both are good.

I use an Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9TD in the US. Its broadly equivalent to the UC300 but will run with Mach3 or Mach4 but not UCCNC. I can certainly recommend it but
I don't think there is any huge advantage in changing to it. Let's see what your pics tell us.

Craig

[jjlee32]

Hi,

No worries at all. Attached are some photos, its currently installed in my electrical box but i can take it out if needed. There are three connectors other than the green terminals, "USB", "MPG", and "OUTPUT".

Also pictured are two different connectors that it came with that seem to tie into the ports labeled MPG and output and allow you to build your own harness. I am thinking this is what i will have to do? I am guessing the these pins will be the ones i map using one of the pulgins for mach 4? I think I'm starting to turn corner here lol .

Thanks again
James

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
well, that was not what I was expecting, they are not UC300's from CNCDrive.

Going to have to do some more research.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Ok that Digital Dream board is made by the Chinese company Novosun. It runs Mac3 alone, that is to say it cannot run Mach4 because it has no Mach4 plugin,
nor will it ever.

You'll get no support from the Mach3 forum because Novosun pirates copies of Mach3 and they are excluded from the forum.

It may not be appealing to hear this but I would say that board is junk. Your CNC experience and progress would be better facilitated by a motion controller other than that you have.
My preference is Mach4 and an Ethernet SmoothStepper, but of course I'm biased to the solutions I know, but there are other choices, many of them very good indeed.

My guess is that you could get Mach3 and your Digital Dream UC300 to work, but I cannot really help as I cant be bothered with Novosun and I haven't used Mach3 for eight going on nine years.

Craig

[jjlee32]

Hi Craig,

Welp, not the news i was hoping to hear, but i appreciate you giving it to me straight. Brutal that i could've bought the kit with just the mechanical components and not the control system but decided to try and make it easy.. lol. Gotta love cheap CNC kits, i guess what i got what i was expecting.

I am assuming that ESS and any other decent control system will have a main brain then separate BoBs for each individual stepper? I really dont want to have to scrap everything, power supplies, electrical cabinet, ughhh.

Thanks again.
James

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
no, its not the end of the world. The motion controller you have is I believe problematic, but all the rest is OK.

I'd recommend an Ethernet SmoothStepper but there are other choices, some a little cheaper. The ESS ($225) really needs a breakout board. A C10 board ($23.00) has 17 inputs and outputs.
A C25 ($30.00) has 34 inputs and outputs. An MB3 ($180) has 51 inputs and outputs. It a very well made and thought out breakout board with all the features you are likely to require. Despite the extra cost
I'd have to recommend it.

The two (ESS and MB3) will cost about $405USD....so not cheap exactly....but relative to the complete cost of the machine not too bad. Remember also if you buy good components like these you'll have them
for ten years or more. I can promise you that while I though an ESS expensive when I bought it nine years ago its paid for itself countless times since. The best $200 I ever spent on CNC.

Hopefully you'll be able to retain the existing drivers and steppers and power supplies. Post some more shots of those bits.

Craig

[jjlee32]

Hi,

Thanks for the information, Here is the exact kit that came with my CNC: https://bulkman3d.com/product/mach3-...roller-bundle/.

I was under the impression that i needed an BoB for each motor, at least that is the case with this current setup (pics attached) So i have the UC300 and 5 of these drivers. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HHS14VQ...roduct_details

Just so I'm clear with the solution you recommend ill need the ESS and the AC25, assuming the power supplies are enough? Or are you saying that these two boards would only replace the UC300 and would interface with my already existing drivers (linked above)

James

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

Just so I'm clear with the solution you recommend ill need the ESS and the AC25, assuming the power supplies are enough? Or are you saying that these two boards would only replace the UC300 and would interface with my already existing drivers (linked above)

Yes, although its called a C25 breakout board. The ESS and breakout board replace the UC300 and you cane reuse the steppers/drivers/power supplies and cabinet. The ESS needs a 5V 0.5A supply, and you need to be a little careful with it....
any voltage over 5V is likely to destroy it, so make sure its good one.

https://www.cnc4pc.com/smooth-steppe...nal-board.html

These aren't bad but this is better especially over a longer term:

https://cncroom.com/en/product/mb3/

Craig

[jjlee32]

Hi,

thanks for the info, looks like both of those boards are 5V, but the MB3 has a step down buck on board that is 24v tolerance. So i think i could just get a separate buck converter to power the ESS and be good to go?

Or could i do it in the pictured diagram and let the MB3 handle the 5v for the ESS? and the "drive" blocks in that diagram be the stepper drivers that i already have installed?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
yes the MB3 requires a 24V supply, but on board it has a 5V buck converter to power the ESS. The ESS plugs in directly to the MB3. In fact the same company sell both the MB3 and ESS as a pair.
As I say the MB3 is convenient and well thought out. For instance it has a spindle ON/OFF relay and a spindle PWM circuit that the C25 lacks, so you'd have to add those extra components, not a huge deal, but
it does involve soldering. Second thing to recommend the MB3 is that it has differential motor outputs, which are high speed with much increased noise immunity. Should you ever upgrade to servo then you'll
love the differential motor outputs.

Craig

[jjlee32]

Hi,

thanks for all your help. I think I'm on the right track now. I am going to do some more investigating but i think ill end up going that route. I do like the servo functionality, I am thinking about swapping out my tangential round knife cutter stepper motor for a servo to eliminate the need to home it.

thanks again.

James

[jjlee32]

Hi Craig,

Sorry to revisit this one, but i have been doing some digging and had a maybe dumb question. Other than the obvious reliability concerns could a Pi and a 5 axis BoB work with my existing setup, assuming i get the correct 5 axis breakout board?

If my goal was to just get up and running to prove a concept could this be a fine solution for me? Here is one i found, with a Pi or equivalent i could get it all done for less than 150, or am I missing something?

-https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Breakout-Board-Stepper-Driver/dp/B0093Y897A/ref=asc_df_B0093Y897A/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=228763672776&hvpos=&hvnetw= g&hvrand=11906053475218912834&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqm t=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030132&hv targid=pla-456416811797&psc=1

Thanks,
James

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
yes the PI can make reasonable CNC/motion controller. You need to load it with a realtime Linux distro, not sure what distro that is, the current favorite distro
changes over time, then load and run LinuxCNC. The you could use an el-cheapo parallel port breakout board like you have linked to, or you could go for one
of the many Mesa boards, there are a swag to choose from, with some feature rich ones around $250.

Craig

[jjlee32]

I appreciate the insight! ill definitely evaluate the many many options.

[jjlee32]

Okay I am currently down the rabbit hole, but i think I am converging on a viable option and would like a sanity check.

I am trending towards a dedicated computer setup running linux and Linux CNC then using this the 7I76E mesa card. I don't have the need for 5 axis encoders, only one right now. but as you mentioned maybe down the road i could upgrade to all servo.


My question is/are, will what i describe work? For the computer setup i was thinking about a RP4 or an Orange Pi or even one of those NUC machines. How does one determine how powerful this machine should be, is it all processor speed ? For the time being in wont be doing CAD/CAM on that machine but would still like to have a browser. Or is this not a concern because its a 'real-time' machine?

I think I am still a little confused but have hope that what I describe above will work.

Thanks,
James