[broncosis]

I'm new here though before
I started posting I did do plenty of reading and I have question to ask
and I'm sure there will be more


first of all why all the aluminum ?
Steal is stronger cheaper and easier
to find or at least as easy to find

though steal is a litter bit harder to work with but not that much

it is far stronger.
yes it is heavier but the wieght to strenght differnce isn't that much

I'm sure some of the people here
that are rather prolific posters will have a sound answer for this I must be over looking something

[duluthboat]

Aluminum can be worked in most cases without machine tools, so it is a good choice for the DIY'er.

Gary

[broncosis]

but for the average DIY which includes me even with a entire welding shop that
I could use to build this thing granted that is a hours drive from here

I still don't have a acurate drill press
but I have a great deal of mdf experince

bah the dust what dust

what would the average DIY make that would need machining you can't bandsaw steal as easily this is true but a $40 grinder is a lot cheaper than a band saw
and it will cut and shape both steal and aluminum

ok wait a minute I have to be careful here I don't want to start a flame war with my 4th post on this board

I can drill steal just as easy
and tapping and gettinga good tread is much easier althogh the sprial tap
does make aluminum much easier to tap than with a plain tap

[yukonho]

Working steel would take much more effort than aluminum or mdf. I built my MDF machine (2 of them actually) in my dining room. I used a cordless drill and a jig saw. That's it, a cordless drill and a jig saw.
I got the MDF cut to size at home depot with their panel saw.
The aluminum was the worst part by far. Can you imagine working steel in your dining room? Granted, most people will have better facilities than me, but the bottom line is, it takes a lot more "everything" to build with steel.
co

[broncosis]

yukonho

I know excatly what you mean my bed room and the living room here
are basicly where the work gets done I have a smal wood shop
where I do the bigger stuff I build custom sub boxes lots

and my car port is where the truck get fixed but smallings like seats and such
and the finishing work on any sub box are typicly done on my coffee table in my basement/bed room

but if you can build a machine with a jig saw and a cordless drill then I feel I should be ok
with mine once I get my plan sorted out as I don't have a drill press but I'm seriously thinking about one

[CrazyRonny]

"Steel is stronger cheaper and easier to find" and the mass of steel make a good vibration damper. But the weight is a factor too, for the base and fix part no problem. But for steel moving part the weight of it will demand you bigger stepper to move all that weight, acceleration and deceleration will have to be slower. And bigger stepper mean more $$$$.

CrazyRonny

[broncosis]

I don't see the wieght to be that much greater

as you will use much less steal than aluminum

but I may have a scewed perspective
on this as the steal I use is generaly free
now if tools were just that easy


I don't plan on using much on this machine but after a couple of cheap machines so I know what works and what doesn't and I have the hang of running a machine I'll be building a plasma table with someone elses money sort of turning a hobby project into a job

[ynneb]

Broncosis, I agree. I love steel.
You can easily weld it and drill it, etc. There is something truthful about steel.
You can look at a structure made with steel and just know it will last for a life time. ( Disregarding the rust factor)
Not to mention its cheapness too.

[samualt]

broncosis:

My whole machine will be aluminum in the form of 80/20 T-slots. It is a 4'x8' machine. I can bolt stuff together in different ways, easily add or remove things. Heck, I could change the whole configuration in a day or two. I will be able to disassemble it and store it. I can move whole sides by myself with no help. You can't do most of that with a steel machine.

It's a trade off. With steel you get weight and stability which probably means better accuracy. But with aluminum you lightness, portability, and ease of construction/reconstruction. It depends on what your looking for.

:rainfro:

[broncosis]

80/20
doesn't realy count as far as I was talking you don't find steal extrusions
I was thinking for plate and raw stock type use

but the tinker toy meathod is a good one
and I was courius to see how well the 80/20 slides worked

and if I was going to build a machine I wanted to take apart it could be done with steal just as easy

but most of the uses I se for aluminum
could be done with steal in half the size where you might use a 1/2" aluminum plate 1/4" steal will still be stronger


but I think I have worked with steal so much I may be biosed that way

welding aside as that is out of a DIY's abillity or resource scope

it takes threads better than aluminum
it drills just as easy with a grinder it cuts plenty easy tools don't plug up cutting steal and I have even cut
1/4" with a cordless sawzall so a corded jig saw should be able to as well but a hacksaw works too

[balsaman]

Aluminum is shiney. Steel is not. It's a cool factor thing. We would use titanium or stainless if you could afford it or machine it, but we can't so aluminum it is.

Steel is a dinosaur.....

Eric

[duluthboat]

broncosis,

First before I forget, welcome to the forum. Doing it yourself, is using your individual knowledge and skills. In most cases there are better ways of doing it but for one reason or another they may not be practical. It is always good to see different approaches to the same problem. Keep posting here; I’m sure we will learn something from each other.

As for using steel, I say, go for it.

Gary

[traveler]

When a person designs a project, one of the considerations is to determine the right material for the job at hand. My plasma table uses a variety of materials depending on what that part need to do. For example the bed, supports, guides are all of steel. The gantry is aluminum because of weight reduction. Weight being an important factor to reduce power needs and momentum reduction. It needs to change direction FAST and aluminum is about 1/3 the weight of steel. There is no one right material for most jobs, just use what is appropriate for the part.

[musicmkr]

I say use what you've got, and what you're good at. As a mechanical engineer I always have the tendancy to over calculate, and just make too much work for myself.

For a pro machine I would use steel, and lots of it. The machine I'm building is aluminum extrusion, only because I get it free at work. I think aluminum is a lot easier for the DIY'r since it is easier to machine, and it arrives already within acceptable tolerances.

A big portion of my project will be built with one inch thick High Density Polyethylene. I am suprised that more people don't us plastics since it's cheaper than aluminum, easier to machine, and given the correct thickness it is just as strong. Plus you don't get the problems with getting it wet like with MDF.

[samualt]

broncosis:
Have you seen the Cadcut Router Plans ? His machine is all steel. Very accurate. High precision. I started to build one but chickened out because I was looking for something more light and portable for the time being. But, I still plan on building a Cadcut sometime. It just seems like the ultimate steel machine.

musicmkr:
High Density Polyethylene? Got some URLs? Thats interesting!

[broncosis]

yes I have seen them

My all steal machine is a ways off yet and it will be built with the help of a welder/fabricator
in the shop it will be used in I haven't even thought about the design for that one yet
there is to much to learn on a smaller scale first but that machine will be far off yet
my first machine is to be built here at home I thought of plastics too but
the only reliable source for them is a in Langley and I'm in Mission that a hour away via car
for thoose of you that don't know BC and MDF and hard ware are plentiful every where
I'm making a trip to langley for some steal odds and ends today
like angles to mount my bearings on some square stock ot mess with and the round stock
for my rails

while I'm at it as this seems to be a topic of interest I am yet to see roller chain on a machine for power transmision to the lead screw I have seen lots of belt drive but not any roller chain the stuff is cheap and easy
to use basicly the same as a belt

anyways just another thought
my motors will all be direct drive
but I figure I hqave have everyoone talking already why not

[musicmkr]

Samualt:

As for plastics you can get them anywhere online. You have to shop for the right product though, some plastics are more expensive than titanium.


As for using rollerchain on a drive system. I'm not sure about the exact efficiency of roller chain. But remembering from college, I think that a good belt can be about 98% efficient, while the best you'll ever get with a rollerchain is around 70% efficiency.

[broncosis]

ok that makes sence to me
I knew there had to be a reason
for it becuse roller chain is simple enough to get at princess auto and many other surplus
places oh for thoose of you in canada go into you local Princess Auto and ask for a stepper motor
maybe if we keep nagging them they will start stocking them again they used to have tones of them for cheap

but I knew there had to be some simple reason why belts were the only think ever used

I will say this mail order is just great for you guys in the states but I'm sure there is another canadian or two that has had ups knock on the door and ask you to pay again for that item you thought you got a great deal on

[Hobbiest]

Just machined some pillow blocks to hold my Igus sleave bearings today. Used 3/4" pipe, which is about .833, reamed to .875, cut a groove inside for the strange contours on the bearings, weld a piece of channel to it, BOOM, pillow block. Took about 10min a piece...why? Because it is steel and simple. If it were aluminum, you could easily add another 20 to 30 min to each piece, after milling a flat for mounting. I am finally going to throw a machine together out of steel. Just to show the doubters if nothing else. With a space frame, multiple tube design, it should be plenty light as well as strong.

[broncosis]

well

I'd through my hands in and help but I'm little far away

well steal if used right is plenty light
next time you in a building with open trusses take a good look becasue only on some of the longest trusses I have worked with ( they had to be shipped via train to the job site ) have I seen thicker steal that 3/16 th's a 45 foot long 2 foot high truss can be carried by 2 people
working at my fathers steel fab shop
has kinda made me pre disposed to steel
I meen we use aluminum when it will be in the wether ot under water some times but a good coating will protect steal almost as well if not better

but just the paint alone would cost more than the aluminum them crazy chemists

but because I know my forst machine will be a toss when I am done with it
I'm going wood I'll build a small crazy stupid one when I know what I want for sure