[SPGTech]

Hello All,

I am purchasing a 1999 Arrow 500 with Vickers drives and the A2100 control. Since I've read enough forum posts to be scared of losing some vital parameters, I'd like to back up what I can before the machine is unplugged from where it is currently running. Also, I expect that it will be a solid year before I have it back up and under power, in case this changes things.

Are there ways to document the bios settings and other important items without tearing the machine apart (prior to moving?) If not, would it make sense to pull the needed boards while the machine is in storage and power them up separately to do the backup then?

What about drive batteries or any other traps that I don't know enough to ask about?

Thank you for any assistance.
-Sean

[Kwirk]

I would probably remove the Harddrive during the moving.
Dont wanna shake that fragile thing more then necessary.

And even try make a clone of it.

Other then that i dont have knowledge of that era of cincinnatis.

[SPGTech]

What a great idea. I probably wouldn't have thought to pull the drive before loading it onto a trailer. Thanks!
-Sean

[Kwirk]

What a great idea. I probably wouldn't have thought to pull the drive before loading it onto a trailer. Thanks!
-Sean

Cloning it to a modern Hdd really boosted the boot time of the system too.
You might wanna block the axes during transport too..i was abit sloppy with that but the machine did not move far.

[SPGTech]

I was planning to block the Z axis, is there an easy way to lock X and Y or is that needed? Move will be close to 200 miles.
Thanks!
-Sean

[maver1ck]

I still have the factory brackets for when I'm involved in relocating these machines. There was a bracket that bolted the Y axis to the base and a cradle that bolted to the table to support the Z-axis and lock the X-axis in place. Since most shops don't still have these anymore, most people just lower the Z-axis onto wood blocks to support it but the X and Y will frequently move around during shipping and can damage the ballscrew bearings. Make sure you block all 3 axes to prevent them from moving.

The WS Bios settings can be documented by entering the BIOS at startup, but the RT Bios settings are not accessible from the machine control so the board would need to be removed from the machine and powered up on a bench with an external monitor for you to document them.

Hard drives rarely fail during transport because they lock themselves down when powered off (assuming they were shut down properly) but I have known several shops to remove the hard drive prior to shipping. At a minimum I would create a current backup of the machine dependent data. This will create a file that by default will be named "M1Y-xxxx.bck" (the xxxx will be the last 4 of the control serial number). If your hard drive ever does fail (or gets corrupted) having this will make it much easier to get the machine running properly again.

Cloning the hard drive isn't a bad idea, but only if you know what you are doing. Connecting the A2100 hard drive to virtually any modern computer will update the file structure and make it unusable when it is plugged back into the A2100 control so do not do this unless you are positive your system will not modify the original file structure.

Other notes:
Make sure you get the pads from under the levelling bolts (or you will be making new ones once it arrives) as these are often lost or misplaced when purchasing a used machine.

The Cincinnati's also came with a dual wound multi-tap transformer, make sure to get this with the machine as well. Many shops try to sell the machine without the transformer but based on many years of experience, you will have far fewer issues with your machine if you have the factory transformer than if you just hook up to a 230V supply.

[gwood]

I've added to Maverick's excellent suggestions:
Arrow, Saber, Lancer with A2100 CNC & Kollmorgen BSD5 Spindle Drive -Shipping and Storage Ideas

The factory used separate shipping brackets for X & Y Axes.
There was an “L” shaped bracket that bolted the Y axis to the Base mounted when Y-axis was around Mid-Travel. If the machine was properly installed a large set screw plugged the Base mounting holes to prevent coolant on the floor. There was a separate bracket to hold the X-Axis in place attached to the Y & X Axes castings. For Z-axis a heavy duty carboard tube with an ID larger and length longer than the spindle nose held the spindle up off of the table top. The Z-motor was removed and a cover plate was bolted over the Z-Thrust Bearing bracket. This was normally to protect damage from obstructions during transport from above. Make sure you block all 3 axes to prevent them from moving!

All ballscrews and linear ways and trucks should be lubricated and transited full travel prior to machine off and shipping brackets and Z-supports are put in place.
Way covers should be slid back and secured with banding or straps.
Machine non-painted surfaces should have a protectant sprayed or brush onto them to prevent rust!

The control cabinet has an L-shaped bracket that was bolted to the Y-axis column for shipping.
Larger machines had a Jack-screw under the outer base of the cabinet for support.
The cabinet bolts at the top should be tight for transit and the washers should be finger loose after installation to prevent vibration from the cutting forces affecting the control and electrical components. Control cabinet fan and air vents should be blocked from dust contamination and weather elements.

With the Hard Drive power unplugged, the WSCPU Bios settings can be documented by entering the BIOS at startup using a PS2-PC keyboard, but the RTCPU Bios settings are not accessible from the machine control so the board would need to be removed from the machine and powered up on a bench with an external monitor and PS2-PC keyboard for you to document them.
I would recommend changing both CR2032 batteries on the bench while powered on after documenting the BIOS Settings. Some of the very early motherboards used a Real-Time Clock Chip with an internal battery that holds the BIOS settings. The setting should still be documented; but when the battery fails a skilled electronic tech would need to replace the chip and restore the saved settings or they can be put in by the user on the bench (RTCPU), or in the control (WSCPU). It depends on the Motherboard and condition of the board capacitors on how long a battery will last with power removed. I’ve posted handouts for checking the batteries on the boards without removing them and how low they will go before corrupting the BIOS Settings on the CNC-Zone forum.

Hard drives rarely fail during transport because they lock themselves down when powered off (assuming they were shut down properly) but I have known several shops to remove the hard drive prior to shipping. At a minimum I would create a current backup of the machine dependent data. This will create a file that by default will be named "M1Y-xxxx.bck" (the xxxx will be the last 4 of the control serial number). If your hard drive ever does fail (or gets corrupted) having this backed up to an external source will make it much easier to get the machine running properly again.

Cloning the hard drive is a good idea, but only if you are skilled know what you are doing. Connecting the A2100 hard drive to virtually any NT or newer PC computer will update the file structure and make it unusable when it is plugged back into the A2100 control so do not do this unless you are positive your system will not modify the original file structure.

The BDS5 Spindle drive uses a Real-Time Clock Chip with an internal battery that holds the User Parameters, and OEM factory program and Variables. Once this goes dead a qualified repair center (such as Kilroy in Ohio) would replace and restore the OEM program and variables (using the Code on the front of the Drive), replace old worn-out power capacitors and cooling fans etc.; but normally will not the User Parameters. These can be documented and restored by using Kollmorgen Motion-Link, a nine-pin RS-232 Serial Cable and a WIN95, 98, or XP PC to upload or manually document them.

Additional notes:
Make sure you get the pads from under the levelling bolts (or you will be making new ones once it arrives) as these are often lost or misplaced when purchasing a used machine.

The Cincinnati's also came with a dual wound multi-tap transformer, make sure to get this with the machine as well. Many shops try to sell the machine without the transformer but based on many years of experience, you will have far fewer issues with your machine if you have the factory transformer than if you just hook up to a 230V supply.
Later machines with Siemens 611 drives used a 400 Volt power transformer.

[SPGTech]

Thank you all for the excellent information. I am out of luck on the transformer; the PO said that they were running the machine on 480, the machine has a plate on the control cabinet that says 400v, and it looks like they have a step down transformer from 480 at the panel to 240. When I asked them to put a meter on the input wires at the machine, they confirmed 240v between all leads; the 400v plate on the cabinet remains a mystery.

I will have 240D available from dual rotary phase converters, or 208Y from a transformer which has been running my other machines. I suspect the 208Y would be a bit cleaner after passing through the transformer. Any suggestions for which to use or where to source a used oem transformer?

Thanks again. The willingness of everybody to share vital information for a 25 year old machine is absolutely fantastic!

-Sean

[SPGTech]

...Also, Maver1ck, do you have the ability to email me a quick sketched print of the brackets so I can make some in advance of picking up the machine?
Thanks either way!
-Sean

[maver1ck]

I'm on the road so can't really get you any actual dimensions right now. Attached is the drawimg that shows the brackets (items 8 and 10) for the table and spindle.

[gwood]

SPGTech, Please provide :
Machine Serial Number: 70xxA0xyyyy ?

Model Type: ie: ERO, EKK ???

Control Diagrams: 9120xxxxYxx

The 400V really bothers me on your plate; let find out what you really have?

[SPGTech]

Working on getting those numbers. That said, an electrician today confirmed that they are running on 240 Delta. I can probably get 220 Wye out of a phase converter and transformer. I am assuming that the machine runs on 3 wire 3 phase... Any reason the machine will care delta vs wye generation as long as the voltage is 220v from leg to leg?
Thanks.
-Sean

[gwood]

The Kollmorgen Drives were design to run on WYE power and do NOT like an unbalanced leg as found in DELTA.
That's why they were sold with DELTA to WYE transformers.
Still though get us that information off the serial plate, or have them send you a photo.

[SPGTech]

Ok, here is the info requested...
Serial 7042-AOB-98-1898
Model ERO
Control Diagrams 91203577

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
-Sean

[gwood]

SPGTech

Machine Model ERO-B with Linear Electric Tool Changer Slide (Must be phased properly to advance to the spindle with Z-Axis all the way up at Alignment point)

612632270003 Assy, Dual TX - 25 KVA (USA) Transformer Machine "Delta to WYE Transformer 25 KVA" with 63A output Circuit breaker and Thermal Sensors in the windings.
Thermal Sensor input to the Control I/O is addressed in the electrical schematics.
Do NOT run the Kollmorgen Drives on Delta, or you will Damage them!
912035270000 Drawing, Data Sheet 500 Linear-TC (Econ)
912035770000 Schematic, Elect.(A2100)(Econ)
912035780000 Schematic, Pneumatic

912035860001 Manual, Service(English)(Econ)
912036050001 Manual, Install(English)(Econ)
912036060001 Manual, Parts (English)(Econ)
912037390000 Manuals, Drives - Kollmorgen

Fives Hebron KY Tech Support can sell you Schematics.

[SPGTech]

Thanks for the info! Are all of those manuals available from Fives or are PDF's available somewhere?

As for the power, I plan to use Wye. I have a 45 KVA 240D to 208Y transformer. It has multiple taps to adjust the voltage about 10 percent and if memory serves I have about 250V at the meter, so I should be pretty close to 220 out of the transformer.

Planning to move the machine at the end of next week. Installing the wiring will probably be several months after, since I'm moving from one shop to another and the electrical bits are at the old shop.

Thanks again!
-Sean