[cliffy227]

My name is Cliff and I'm a newbie at the whole CNC thing. Over the past few months (more like 7 months) I've purchased a Syil X4 Plus from Syil Canada (Cost a little more with taxes and transport but well worth the customer service), SolidWorks and Visual Mill. After messing around with all of these new toys I was amazed at the things I could design and build on this machine.

Only one problem though: The machine losing its position once in a while and destroying my work. After much messing around and lots of research I decided this was happening primarily during machine repositions (rapids) and due mainly to lack of torque and associated stepper resonance. (Steppers can resonate at both low speed and high speed if they become stalled for any reason. Therefore I reasoned that higher torque motors would be part of the solution)

Being the compulsive and obsessive goat that I am, I ended up completely re-gutting my machine.

Here is a list and some pics of what I did:

1. Installed hinges and latches on the aft electronics cabinet to ease entry and maintenance on this much accessed part of the mill.

2. Soft mounted the electronics cabinet to the mill to help protect the electronics from some of the mill vibration.

3. Replaced all 4 stepper drives with Gecko G203V drivers. These are very good drivers allowing up to 7 amps per phase (more torque) and Gecko's proprietary "mid phase resonance dampening". Relatively small investment but seemingly large reassurance. These drives can also be trimmed to each specific motor to insure the smoothest running motor state possible. (This doesn't seem to be just hype; the trimming makes a noticeable difference in the motors operation). Also these are small drives that get hot. The instructions call for mounting them on a heat sink so I elected to mount all 4 of them to a 1"x3"x12" aluminum plate. See Pics.

4. Replaced all stepper motors on X, Y, Z, and A axis's with Nema 34 series motors with rear shaft for installation of encoders. The Nema 34 motors I chose (after experimenting with many) were the 34K108D-LW8 high torque motors from Anaheim Automation. These motors have some kind of high tech magnet technology in them that practically doubles the torque. (And quadruples the price, by the way)

I thought this may be just B.S. marketing emphasized with some fancy red paint but rest assured they make a huge difference. Reference the following: I've always had trouble with the a axis (rotary table) on this machine. After installing a 34Y series motor (rated at 467 oz/in of torque) I noticed very little difference in the amount of force it took to stall the rotary table operation compared to the originally installed Nema 23 motor (easily stalled with one hand regardless of speed). So then I pulled one of my $510.00 34K series motors (rated at 820 oz/in of torque) from the box, installed it on the rotary table to see if the extra $400 makes any difference. Well, it does! I absolutely could not stall the rotary table. Not with one hand, not with both. It would just simply twist my whole body around until it stopped where I told it to. Dead nuts on. These "K" series motors are the same size as any other 400 oz/in motors but man do they have some torque. Needless to say, I'm putting these motors on all four axes of my machine. (They only had two in stock when I moded my machine so until they come in I only have them installed on my Z and A Axis's.)

5. Replaced the two 350 watt power supplies with two Meanwell SE-600-48 600 watt power supplies. This was done to handle the additional amps of the Gecko's and the 34K motors. (I'm running 5 amps/phase parallel per motor. With two motors per power supply that should keep me well under the 12 amp rating of the power supply. Also these power supplies are slightly larger than the originals but with some modification they will fit in the original cabinet location. See Pics)

6. Replaced all machine power supply (110v) wiring all the way to the plug in the wall with larger more suitable wiring. (not to mention eliminating some of the suspect wire crimping standards seemingly set by someone in China)

7. Installed 4 US Digital E6 series encoders on all 4 axis's including their prefabricated shielded wiring.

8. Installed Sound Logic's Encoder Interface board and required parallel port plug.

9. Routed all motor and switch wiring (except Z axis) through 5/8" poly reinforced tubing (yellow air hose). These hoses were mounted at both ends with brass fittings and pinch clamps which makes for a strong rigid mount and easy removal while maintaining exceptional protection for the all-important motor and encoder wiring. This mod eliminated the cheap plastic wire looms and fittings that if you tried to clean would just fall out in your hand. I also clamped and routed the hoses properly to give the table the most uninhibited movement possible.

10. Because of the length of the 34K series motors and encoders on the X and Y axis I had to lengthen the motor covers approximately 1/4 inch which I did with straps of aluminum and flush rivets. Also, because of the added rigidity of the wire routing hoses and the associated forces put on these covers I drilled and tapped the Nema 34 motor mounts on the top to accept additional screws through the covers. This makes the covers more rigid to better accommodate the increased moment from the wire routing hoses.

11. Routed the 4th axis (rotary table) wiring into the X axis motor cover and terminated both the motor wires and encoder wires with appropriate size Molex plugs. This allows easy removal of the 4th axis, then you can just tuck the plugs up under the X axis cover to protect them from metal debris.

12. Replaced the gibb screws on both X and Y axis's with hardened cap screws and nuts. I also filled the gap in the Y axis gibb with a layer of silicone to keep metal chips from packing into the gibb. I don't know why they left this gibb un-protected but by its design with the table at one or the other limit it leaves the exposed end of the gibb plate slightly loose. When metal chips pack into this gap then you lose the consistency of your gibb settings.

13. Installed two 48Volt fans. One in upper vented access plate of the cabinet and one just under the motor in the spindle head.

14. Installed FogBuster coolant system with interfaced electric valve.

After moding the entire machine, I turned it on and started fiddling with the encoders until they started working in Mach 3. Now this is cool. It is very hard to stall any axis on this machine now but if you do the whole machine shuts down with the "reset" button blinking. When you press the reset once, it re-aligns the bad axis with the encoder reading, then if you're happy with its position readings, hit reset again and you're off and running without ruining your part. This is VERY cool and I now have a huge amount of confidence with this machine!

Only one thing thought after all of that: I haven't made a single part on it since the mod. So as good as it sounds, it still needs to be tried. I will advise though

[syil canada]

cliff that looks great, i love it to see when customers "Hotrod" their machines. I have always been one that the base always needs to be customized. I look at it the same way as cars, i love to upgrade and customize my cars.

keep me posted on the progress, keep up the good work!!!

keith

[heilcnc]

it is to bad you have to update those Chinese machines to make them work able
(QUAILITY?)

[syil canada]

Ha Ha, thats funny. Would be the same reasons that people like to customize their cars? Cause there crap, i am sure that is the reason. Some folk on this forum are brilliant, ya think with most with engineering or machining background we would actually get some intuitive questions.

thank you for you comment.

[heilcnc]

no i was serious people that buy the mills from china have to rebuild them to make them
a quility machine period! the guys that customize cars do it to make them one of a kind

[ihavenofish]

it is to bad you have to update those Chinese machines to make them work able
(QUAILITY?)

PRICE?

dude, its a $4500 machine - the cheapest of the x3 based turnkeys.

you can get a machine thats got some of these issues solved.. for about $1000 more. you could have them solve more of these quirks... for even more money.

or you could do it yourself any way you like and potentially save some cash.

i think you worry too much about our friends in china for someone who seems to want solutions handed to him with no effort.

[saltytri]

So, ihavenofish, what would you get for $1000 more? This is a serious question - I'm not just needling ya!

[ihavenofish]

So, ihavenofish, what would you get for $1000 more? This is a serious question - I'm not just needling ya!

$1000 more is the novakon nm135. it has tapered gibs, stainless Y axis covers, gecko 203 control, 6000rpm spindle. also includes the stand and mach3. thats probably the main differences. so, your basically "better", for more money.

theres no magic here, if the market wasnt there for all these machine price points, they wouldnt exist.

[youngjim]

Regarding the OP - Nice looking work. Syil is close enough to me that buying one of theirs could save me quite a bit of money on shipping, not to mention I'd be able to see what I'm getting firsthand.

Jim

[saltytri]

$1000 more is the novakon nm135. it has tapered gibs, stainless Y axis covers, gecko 203 control, 6000rpm spindle. also includes the stand and mach3. thats probably the main differences. so, your basically "better", for more money.

theres no magic here, if the market wasnt there for all these machine price points, they wouldnt exist.

Whew! I was hoping you would say that since I already spent the money.

As a newbie, I'm glad to have that opinion from someone who is more knowledgeable.

[austin.mn]

Enough Jabbering.... how does it cut? Lets see some wicked 3D parts!

[cliffy227]

Well, the machine out of the box cut great to begin with. Now it should cut even better for because of a tighter table and gibbs and faster cutting speeds due to not having to worry about the machine loosing positon.

Keep in mind gentlemen, that I could obviously get a better machine for the bucks I put into this one. But I did this because I enjoyed it and I now know the machine inside and out. For a newbie I feel pretty good.

Anyway, I'm about two or three days form cutting another part for my radio controlled F-18 landing gear. These seem to be pretty detailed and complicated 3D parts so I'll post the results here and let you judge for yourselves.

Good luck to me!!

Cliff

[cliffy227]

Here's some pics of the upper strut trunions I made from 7075 T651 aluminum before the machine mod. These were cut from 3" cylinder stock.

They look beautiful to my untrained eye. Especially for a first attempt.

Cliff

[austin.mn]

For a first attempt they are gorgeous! Can't wait to see what your parts look like a few years from now when you have had plenty of practice.

Keep up the good work.

[john_t_h]

Wow, Nice work Cliff! Let us know how it all goes when you make some chips.

[ataxy]

nice job

[sharpshooter90]

My name is Cliff and I'm a newbie at the whole CNC thing. Over the past few months (more like 7 months) I've purchased a Syil X4 Plus from Syil Canada (Cost a little more with taxes and transport but well worth the customer service), SolidWorks and Visual Mill. After messing around with all of these new toys I was amazed at the things I could design and build on this machine.

Only one problem though: The machine losing its position once in a while and destroying my work. After much messing around and lots of research I decided this was happening primarily during machine repositions (rapids) and due mainly to lack of torque and associated stepper resonance. (Steppers can resonate at both low speed and high speed if they become stalled for any reason. Therefore I reasoned that higher torque motors would be part of the solution)

Being the compulsive and obsessive goat that I am, I ended up completely re-gutting my machine.

Here is a list and some pics of what I did:

1. Installed hinges and latches on the aft electronics cabinet to ease entry and maintenance on this much accessed part of the mill.

2. Soft mounted the electronics cabinet to the mill to help protect the electronics from some of the mill vibration.

3. Replaced all 4 stepper drives with Gecko G203V drivers. These are very good drivers allowing up to 7 amps per phase (more torque) and Gecko's proprietary "mid phase resonance dampening". Relatively small investment but seemingly large reassurance. These drives can also be trimmed to each specific motor to insure the smoothest running motor state possible. (This doesn't seem to be just hype; the trimming makes a noticeable difference in the motors operation). Also these are small drives that get hot. The instructions call for mounting them on a heat sink so I elected to mount all 4 of them to a 1"x3"x12" aluminum plate. See Pics.

4. Replaced all stepper motors on X, Y, Z, and A axis's with Nema 34 series motors with rear shaft for installation of encoders. The Nema 34 motors I chose (after experimenting with many) were the 34K108D-LW8 high torque motors from Anaheim Automation. These motors have some kind of high tech magnet technology in them that practically doubles the torque. (And quadruples the price, by the way)

I thought this may be just B.S. marketing emphasized with some fancy red paint but rest assured they make a huge difference. Reference the following: I've always had trouble with the a axis (rotary table) on this machine. After installing a 34Y series motor (rated at 467 oz/in of torque) I noticed very little difference in the amount of force it took to stall the rotary table operation compared to the originally installed Nema 23 motor (easily stalled with one hand regardless of speed). So then I pulled one of my $510.00 34K series motors (rated at 820 oz/in of torque) from the box, installed it on the rotary table to see if the extra $400 makes any difference. Well, it does! I absolutely could not stall the rotary table. Not with one hand, not with both. It would just simply twist my whole body around until it stopped where I told it to. Dead nuts on. These "K" series motors are the same size as any other 400 oz/in motors but man do they have some torque. Needless to say, I'm putting these motors on all four axes of my machine. (They only had two in stock when I moded my machine so until they come in I only have them installed on my Z and A Axis's.)

5. Replaced the two 350 watt power supplies with two Meanwell SE-600-48 600 watt power supplies. This was done to handle the additional amps of the Gecko's and the 34K motors. (I'm running 5 amps/phase parallel per motor. With two motors per power supply that should keep me well under the 12 amp rating of the power supply. Also these power supplies are slightly larger than the originals but with some modification they will fit in the original cabinet location. See Pics)

6. Replaced all machine power supply (110v) wiring all the way to the plug in the wall with larger more suitable wiring. (not to mention eliminating some of the suspect wire crimping standards seemingly set by someone in China)

7. Installed 4 US Digital E6 series encoders on all 4 axis's including their prefabricated shielded wiring.

8. Installed Sound Logic's Encoder Interface board and required parallel port plug.

9. Routed all motor and switch wiring (except Z axis) through 5/8" poly reinforced tubing (yellow air hose). These hoses were mounted at both ends with brass fittings and pinch clamps which makes for a strong rigid mount and easy removal while maintaining exceptional protection for the all-important motor and encoder wiring. This mod eliminated the cheap plastic wire looms and fittings that if you tried to clean would just fall out in your hand. I also clamped and routed the hoses properly to give the table the most uninhibited movement possible.

10. Because of the length of the 34K series motors and encoders on the X and Y axis I had to lengthen the motor covers approximately 1/4 inch which I did with straps of aluminum and flush rivets. Also, because of the added rigidity of the wire routing hoses and the associated forces put on these covers I drilled and tapped the Nema 34 motor mounts on the top to accept additional screws through the covers. This makes the covers more rigid to better accommodate the increased moment from the wire routing hoses.

11. Routed the 4th axis (rotary table) wiring into the X axis motor cover and terminated both the motor wires and encoder wires with appropriate size Molex plugs. This allows easy removal of the 4th axis, then you can just tuck the plugs up under the X axis cover to protect them from metal debris.

12. Replaced the gibb screws on both X and Y axis's with hardened cap screws and nuts. I also filled the gap in the Y axis gibb with a layer of silicone to keep metal chips from packing into the gibb. I don't know why they left this gibb un-protected but by its design with the table at one or the other limit it leaves the exposed end of the gibb plate slightly loose. When metal chips pack into this gap then you lose the consistency of your gibb settings.

13. Installed two 48Volt fans. One in upper vented access plate of the cabinet and one just under the motor in the spindle head.

14. Installed FogBuster coolant system with interfaced electric valve.

After moding the entire machine, I turned it on and started fiddling with the encoders until they started working in Mach 3. Now this is cool. It is very hard to stall any axis on this machine now but if you do the whole machine shuts down with the "reset" button blinking. When you press the reset once, it re-aligns the bad axis with the encoder reading, then if you're happy with its position readings, hit reset again and you're off and running without ruining your part. This is VERY cool and I now have a huge amount of confidence with this machine!

Only one thing thought after all of that: I haven't made a single part on it since the mod. So as good as it sounds, it still needs to be tried. I will advise though

Cliffy-
Looking forward to seeing some pics of your work. You have done what I have advised all along- buy a basic machine- fix the mechanical stuff then put your own electronics package on and you will have a top notch unit. Even though you will take more time and spend more money, in the long run you will be far ahead in function with way less headaches than those guys fixing the Chinese electronics over and over.

[ataxy]

i think one of the option that could be interresting for any of those small mill company would be to offer barebone machine or machine without any of the electronic

[ihavenofish]

i think one of the option that could be interresting for any of those small mill company would be to offer barebone machine or machine without any of the electronic

novakon was offering the nm135 and nm070 as machines with no controller. they came with motors and spindle electronics however. smithy was offering the same as well. both seem to have dropped the option for the moment, i think the price wasnt that much lower to be a big seller.

a furthur stripped machine, with no motors, no control, no spindle motor or drive might be interesting.

my own machines will be offered as a bare frame, but ive been talking with suppliers of various parts, and doing a complete mechanically operational frame might be an option. they of course are aimed at a slightly higher price bracket than the x3 variant machines which are about $3500 controllerless.

[youngjim]

Here's some pics of the upper strut trunions I made from 7075 T651 aluminum before the machine mod. These were cut from 3" cylinder stock.

They look beautiful to my untrained eye. Especially for a first attempt.

Cliff

Nice! I'd like to meet the guys who figured that whole mechanism out. I've watched it go up and down a million times and is still a bit of a mystery.

Jim