[krazatchu]

Hi ya...

Got a new SX3...

As far as I know.. the procedure for removeing a chuck or tool... is to loosen the drawbar and then tap the drawbar from the top to pop out the tool/chuck ...

Doesn't seem to work for me... Is there another form of release?

I looked all thru the Syil forum and checked the manuels etc... couldn't find any 411...

Thanks,
Michael

[Greolt]

Yeah they can be a bit hard to loosen. Especially if it is MT3.

Just back the drawbar about half a turn and tap the top with a soft hammer.

I often use a punch that will fit inside the socket screw head to get a sharp rap.

Best is you can place a wood block between the shoulder of the quill and the table to support the quill.

If MT3 you will soon get into the habit of not over tightening the drawbar.

Greg

[tahlinc]

Another help is to Tap on the side of the chuck at the same time.

Jim

[tullsnr]

Hi Michael, had the same problem with mine when purchased about 2 months ago. When I rang the company I purchased it from they told me to use a piece of aluminium or brass between the head of the bolt and the hammer and give it a hard hit, they also told me it may need a couple of hits to let go. So I backed of the bolt 1/2 turn then placed a piece of 1/2" brass on the socket head and gave it a good hit with a hammer, on the third hit it let go. They told me that this was not an uncommon problem and as Greg said, don't overtighten the drawbar when replaced.

Ian

[handlewanker]

Hi all, if the taper is stuck, DO NOT USE a soft hammer on the end of the drawbar, back it off a turn, no more, and give it a firm knock with a HARD steel hammer.
This will SHOCK it loose.

The draw bar is made of tough steel and if you just use a soft hammer the taper won't release.
When you tighten it up DON'T use too much force, otherwise you'll "freeze" the taper, (if it's 3 MT) in the spindle.

The result of overtightening a 3MT is not only will it be difficult to remove, but the resulting pounding to shock it loose will also damage the bearings in time.
As has been stated by Greg, it would definately pay to support the spindle end if this occurence should happen.
As far as I'm concerned the 3MT has no place on milling machine spindles due to the removal problems, even if they are widely used, same goes for scanty panties on fat old ladies.

In one firm I worked for, back aways some, we had a Bridgeport with 3 MT spindle, and after having certain people overtightening the D/B, we replaced the D/B with a threaded rod having a knurled hand wheel on top.
Never had problems after that.

You don't have this problem with Int30/40/50 tapers or R8 collets with the fast nose taper, but you also should not OVERTIGHTEN the D/B.
There is a tendency for some people with R8 collets to overtighten the D/B, due to the down pull when using big cutters on roughing out work.

Bloody hell, the Bridgeport (and similar types) is a highly precision tool room mill and if you want to hack into rough work with R8 taper, use a holder with a side screw to hold the cutter in, or a chuck with ER collets, better than that a shell end mill and solid R8 shank, rather than tightening the living sh1ts out of the D/B to hold cutters in R8 collets.

Otherwise at the end of the day all you'll have is stripped threads on the D/B or worse in the collet.

This also applies to lathe tailstock spindles where 3MT is as common as dog poo.
The tendency to overtighten is much more predominant in a lathe doing heavy shaft work with revolving centres, due to the end thrust required to keep the work on the centre.

We solved this problem of 3MT removal when after having to remove the tailstock spindle to have the frozen in centre removed, the foreman had a washer fitted between the revolving centre back face and the spindle end face.

After fitting the centre to the spindle the gap was measured and a steel washer was surface ground to size to take up the gap.
Needless to say the washer was kept on that lathe and used for that revolving centre only.
Ian.

[krazatchu]

Wow~~ Alot of replies for one day...

Thanks everyone, I will certainly try it with a hard hammer and a support under the quill... And I will be carefull in the future to not over tighten it...

I see that MT3 must be the common Austrailian shaft type...

Thanks,
Michael

[Greolt]

Hi all, if the taper is stuck, DO NOT USE a soft hammer on the end of the drawbar, back it off a turn, no more, and give it a firm knock with a HARD steel hammer.
This will SHOCK it loose.

The draw bar is made of tough steel and if you just use a soft hammer the taper won't release.
..................

Just don't use a hard hammer straight onto the socket head. Very soon the allen key won't go in any more. That's why you want a punch or drift. I use a punch that will go into the socket.

I agree that MT3 is not a good taper to use with a drawbar. It's too shallow. Original design was with a tang or in a tailstock. R8 makes much more sense when used with a drawbar.

On that subject don't be tempted to get MT3 collets. See pic.

By the time they are tight enough to grip the tool they are pretty tightly siezed into the Morse Taper.

Much better to get a MT3 to ER collet adapter. I chose ER25 as a good size match to the X3

Greg

[krazatchu]

One more thing~~~

Just wondering how I should support the quill... since the chuck is almost the same size...

Should I support the head instead? Or am I confusing the terminology, head and quill???

Thanks so much,
Michael

[SyilAmerica]

I've never used a blunt instrument on a SX3. They have a built-in colllet ejection system by screwing it out all the way to the top, then it simply pushes the holder out. At least that is the way it is on all our R8 units. I've never heard of a stuck collet.

[Greolt]

I've never heard of a stuck collet.

That's because you don't have MT3

[handlewanker]

Hi Greg, by the "hard hammer" I was assuming that the drawbar was as per Bridgeport with solid end.
I actually use a solid alluminium hammer that was specially cast for the job of "knocking down" in vices and wacking out drawbars, among other things.

You just can't burr anything steel with alluminium, provided you have the mass to give it weight.
When the hammer is eventually spread over on the ends, you just melt it down and recast it.
Never wears out, and costs min.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

BTW, thanks for mentioning the MT3 collets.
I almost invested in a set for a mate who has a MAS mill with vertical head and 3MT spindle.
Since he aquired a Bridgeport,(mine), he doesn't use the Mas very much, and loves the R8 system.
Ian.

[thackman]

Krazatchu,

Are you sure that you have an MT3 spindle? I haven't seen any evidence either way. You mentioned that your X3 is new and I had thought that that R8 was more common on the new X3's but MT3 is certainly available. I'm cleaning up a brand new one now and my R8 chuck was also stuck. The chuck on mine isn't a straight shank that's held in with a collet but rather a real R8 shank. I had to unthread the drawbar a few turns, tap it lightly and the chuck dropped a bit, then fully unthreaded it. Many people were convinced you had an MT3 spindle and I wanted to put in my 2 cents incase you weren't sure what you had.

If your chuck is held in with a collet then make sure the chuck doesn't drop out and hit the table when you break it loose.

[Greolt]

..........Many people were convinced you had an MT3 spindle and I wanted to put in my 2 cents incase you weren't sure what you had.

I think the response was more like "If it's MT3 then this is a common problem"

I think (though don't know for sure) that all X3s shipped elsewhere than North America will be MT3

Greg

[krazatchu]

Hey all... Thanks for all the advice...

It took about 2 hits after I supported the quill and used a copper hammer...

Just to clear up any confusion... yes, it's an MT3... That's what I ordered... thats what I got... I'm in South Korea... The R8 is only common in USA as far as I know....

Michael