[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

Good morning everyone,

I'm not certain if this is the correct forum for this, but here it goes...

"I'm looking for a DNC program that works with a barcode scanner for an 8-machine shop. Can anyone help?" <--the short of it.

Here's the long of it:
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The company I work for has given me a task: Find a way to automate the 'loading' of programs into a shop of eight (8) CNC Lathes from Haas.

I've been looking online and I'm finding that DNC might be the way to go. However, they were explicit in asking me to look for something that would include a 'barcode scanner'.

I'm guessing they want to use the barcode scanner because our jobs here come not with a job sheet, but rather a job envelope with a barcode and they'd like the barcode to become a way for the operators to run jobs, rather than using the time-consuming typing in the control method (which is List Prog->Hard Drive ->Manufacturing ID->Oxxxxx.nc, select, Memory->ProgramLoad->Ready).

They've been running some studies here at work and we want to get into making small-order jobs. The problem is, since we are production-oriented (30 to 40 seconds per piece), the loading of a program can sometimes take longer than actually machining the thing because the manufacturing ID can be tough to find. I have arranged the files in the hard-drive in alphanumeric folders to minimize error and to maximize ease of finding the ID. Each ID has about 20 programs associated with it, so the Oxxxxx.nc files are easy to locate and use because the job envelope clearly says which one it is.

They find that running small jobs will not be worth the cost of the operator/machine because it would take longer to find/load a program than to make the piece, and they also noticed the obvious fall in productivity as a result.

Thus, they want to find a way to make the loading/unloading of programs easier. They want to use the barcode because the job envelopes already have one, being that the routing of jobs is done via an AS400-type database system, which they use for inventory control and B.O.M's (bills of materials) and pricing info, etc. The job envelope would have the manufacturingID and the part number (which becomes the Oxxxxx.nc number since I made them associated), so scanning that with a barcode scanner (to get the ID, and the part number) becomes 'the norm' for an operator.

My plan is to get a PC to become the 'server' and host all the code programs, and have it have a small database that would associate the manufacturingID with the folder containing the part numbers, and the part number with the NC file within. Then, the DNC would determine what file to pick, and send it to the CNC.

I do not know if I will need one barcode scanner or eight, or if the scanner would be located at the CNC or at the PC.

Anyway, that's the LONG of it.
-----------------------------

I've been looking into programs such as Predator DNC, Dostek DNC, etc. Does anyone have experience with them, such that they can tell me if such a feat is possible?

Regards,
Jorge

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

Jorge yes you can set up bar code scanners with a DNC system you will need to make sure you don't have any duplicate file names. This is a custom system you could do it with one scanner or 8 we have set up about 40 you could put one scanner at each machine this is the fastest way to get programs. But there are some other options available to you once you get a solid DNC system in place that don't have the cost of a bar code system i.e. remote request or file queuing.

[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

Thanks for the response.

It's good to know that such a method can be implemented. We have duplicate files, but I would imagine that it would ask me to overwrite by pressing Y or N like how it does now. Right now we load up the files and when the filenames are the same it asks us at the control to press Y or N to overwrite in memory.

I suppose doing it with a scanner would simplify the process in the same way only it would end up asking the question.

Remote Request won't be as efficient because the operators are going to have to know what file to request, which means that they will have to 1. know the file, and 2. have to type up a program in the control in order to fetch it, which would end up taking up about as much time as to load the program the current way (30-40 seconds or so).

Queueing would be nice to do, but we get random jobs spoonfed to us throughout the day, and sometimes one particular job might take priority over another so file queueing sounds like it might be more trouble than it's worth.

Where do you connect the scanner at the CNC? We have a LAN/Ethernet port, an RS-232 port, and a USB port on our Haas machines. Only the LAN/Ethernet port is being used, the other two are mostly free.

We don't mind having a scanner at each CNC. In fact, that's how I'd like it to be.

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

In order for the system to work you can not have duplicate file names on the sever unless you were to create separate machine directories and you still can't have duplicates within them. The reason is your are limited on the custom command string used by the scanners.

You could connect the scanners to the RS232 port if you do so you will need a DNC system. You may also connect the scanners to the LAN port with a hub and you would need FTP server software.

You can also connect the scanners to the LAN via Wireless systems.

In all the above cases you need programmable scanners.

Regards,
Jim
MFGNetworks

[WayneHill]

Barcode scanners work on a PC. They push the data into the keyboard buffer as if you were typing it in by hand. They connect to a serial/USB port or through the same keyboard cable with an adapter.

Added: Forgot about wireless scanners - Thanks Jim

[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

In order for the system to work you can not have duplicate file names on the sever unless you were to create separate machine directories and you still can't have duplicates within them.

We have deparate directories, yeah.
For example, say we have PartA

PartA has, say, 5 variations (by size/inches), so there's a folder/directory at work that is labelled

PARTA

and inside of it you will find:
O00010.txt
O00020.txt
O00030.txt
O00040.txt
O00050.txt

Now you will have another part, PartB. All our parts have the same variations (for example, five), so you'd have a folder/directory labelled

PARTB

and inside of it, like the other one, you will find:
O00010.txt
O00020.txt
O00030.txt
O00040.txt
O00050.txt

Does this kind of setup make it impossible to use scanners?

I know that there are DNC programs that use 'aliasing' which might be able to help in this case.

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

Yes this directory structure will work as long as you put the parent directory in the bar-code like so
/PARTA/O00010.txt some of that depends on the root of your FTP server if using LAN or Wireless LAN.

[WayneHill]

You have 255 characters to use for a filename length. Why limit it two six characters?

PartA.1stOp.0010.txt
PartA.2ndOp.0020.txt
PartA.3rdOp.0030.txt
PartA.4thOp.0040.txt

PartB.1stOp.0010.txt
PartB.2ndOp.0020.txt
PartB.3rdOp.0030.txt
PartB.4thOp.0040.txt

The machine does not care what you name the filename. The CNC control reads the program number (O1234) from inside the file.

[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

I set the limit to eight actually... though yes I only use six.
The reason is, the Haas control window limits the view since it seems to have the same limits that DOS has.

Thus, part 6 should be:
O00600.txt

because if I used:
part1set0006.txt

then in the Haas control it would only show:
part1s~1.txt

which the operators cannot easily decipher (it's a DOS-like limitation).

Currently, the Haas CNCs hold all the files in their hard drives, which I update via a small router/network I set up. I do this because 1. the main computer is not on all the time, and 2. I need the power to run the SolidEdge models, etc. and 3. I use the PC's only LAN port for connecting to the company network at times, so I cannot be on the company network AND connected to the little CNC network.

So which software should I go with?
Multicam DNC
Predator DNC
Dostek DNC

?

It looks like the first one might be the easiest for the shop floor to use...

EDIT- I don't mind getting another computer and using it as the server/database/DNC Workstation, btw.

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

If your doing it LAN based you don't need DNC software

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

Based on what you told me you are using LAN all you need is A FTP server software and install it on your server if you don't have a server you can install it on any PC. You should be able to connect the networks together it may require some IP changes.

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

Most DNC software is designed to be used with serial communications RS232. You will need a custom setup not a off the shelf DNC software.

[WayneHill]

Now I understand. It is the HAAS control that uses the 8.3 file formatting. We use the HAAS controls from the serial I/O port and not the LAN system. Our HAAS controls only holds the current program and subroutines.

You can use a LAN switch and connect the whole network together. A networked PC dedicated to fileserving would be one solution.

[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

Well, I already do that, guys...
I can use the 'net share' option on the CNCs and connect to a central PC that has the files.

I don't think I posed my question correctly.

My question is not on 'how to network the CNCs together' or 'how to transfer data', but rather

"How do I optimize the process of receiving Data or Loading programs using a Barcode Scanner or other such device, possibly with DNC?"

We want to minimize the program-loading time. Since there are so many styles (Parts) and each one has so many variations of it (at least 20), and they're separated via division (there are three divisions), it just takes longer to find the files in the control (Haas doesn't have a 'find directory' option, or a searcher, unfortunately).

With each piece taking 30 to 40 seconds to manufacture, it basically means the operator is possibly spending more than half the day just finding/loading programs, which brings down productivity if doing single-piece jobs or small-quantity jobs (which is what the company is planning on doing).

If there was a quick way to load, say, using a Scanner, that would cut down the setup time to maybe... 10 seconds? It would be *BEEP* *wait* *done!* I'm guessing. I wouldn't know because I don't have a scanner or software yet.

I read that Multicam DNC uses the LAN port and the scanner option.

-Jorge-

[WayneHill]

We had to lay down the ground work of where you are, and where you are going.

%
(Main program )
(Call each program as subroutine)
O0001
M98 P0010
M98 P0020
M98 P0030
M98 P0040
M30
%

Barcode scan on PC *BEEP* =
1. Delete current programs O0010, O0020, O0030, O0040 in HAAS directory.
2. Change the network file server to next job directory designated by the barcode text.
3 Copy files from network directory to HAAS directory.

Am I close?

[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

Yeah pretty much that.

Most jobs only have one variation anyway (1" piece instead of 0.75" piece) and the Oxxxxx.nc is usually the entire program, the file is less than 5K in size.

So yeah that sounds about right, yes.

We're always overwriting programs in memory so yeah having them being 'cleared' before copying would do it.

[WayneHill]

Multi-DNC does not do that. Check > http://www.multi-dnc.com/

It will look for an individual files in a directory.

You need a custom software program. A custom software program will cost much less than Multi-DNC I bet. All the program needs to do is some file maintenance in network directories.

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

All you need to do is program the scanner with the commands needed to get the file and a simple FTP server or maybe a FTP client depending on which way you will be going i.e. pushing or pulling the files.

[Jim-MFGNetworks]

Let me ask you this do you send files to the machines using Windows networking or a FTP client?

[Jorge-D-Fuentes]

Hmm... alright...

I can probably get ahold of a programmable Barcode scanner, and I used to use Bulletproof FTP server a while back...

I had an interesting phone call with someone from this Forum regarding the barcode scanners. It seems they can be routed to match the IP address of the corresponding CNCs, thus further facilitating the task.

Now I gotta get ahold of the IT department and finding a way to extract the right data from the barcode, if possible. Then I'd have to have a small database to correlate the 'style' part of the scan with the appropriate folder unless the FTP program or the barcode scanner can do so.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for the help, guys, though I'm certain I am far from done.

EDIT- I just use the regular Network. I have the IP addresses all set up so I just use the Windows File & Printer Sharing method. I just gotta authenticate once and then I have access to the hard-drives of the CNC's.

I've never transferred directly to memory, though.