[jshumer1]

Hello all, this is my first post in the zone. I have found tons and tons of info on this retrofit. (Thanks to all of you) This is my first retro to servo motors. Kind of a slow process for me. My dad started a small tool and die shop about 15 years ago outside our house in a barn he built. This boss 5 was the first cnc he bought, about 10 years ago. It’s always been a pain to keep it running. I spend more time trying to fix it then I do cutting on it. So I decided to bite the bullet, gut the sucker and start anew. Of course the servo motor will not fit with the same motor mounts. And I don’t want to mount the motor off the front of the machine. I want to mount the motor off to the side on a 45 degree angle or so. I was wondering if anyone already had prints to make up this mounting case. Any help would be much appreciated. I am very excited about finding the cnczone. A wealth of information at my fingertips.

[jshumer1]

Ok ok. Maybe I was asking a little much. My goodies from Camsoft should be here on Wednesday so I’ve started to design up the bracket to get this money maker back in business ASAP. I will post my pics as it develops.

[mactec54]

Hi jshumer1

What motors are you using AC or DC I did my Boss 5 with AC servos and has been
great for 8 years now but I would mount the motors as they were mounted and
keep the 1 to 1 drive setup unless your motor is to long to go under the knee were
the old stepper motor was mounted

[colin1544]

Hello log onto AJAX CNC site they give you a full info for a retrofit on a Boss 5 machine dead easy. Cheers Colin

[jshumer1]

..

[jshumer1]

I have been on ajacks, camsoft, you name it. I just wish I knew about this site earlier. My amplifiers, drivers and cables should be in today. (very excited) Anyways, I have designed my x and y axis cover and bracket. I cut the x-axis bracket last night. I am posting some pics, and some .pdf’s of the design. The pics are taken with my cell phone so I apologize for the poor quality. I will take better pics another time.

[jshumer1]

Hi jshumer1

What motors are you using AC or DC I did my Boss 5 with AC servos and has been
great for 8 years now but I would mount the motors as they were mounted and
keep the 1 to 1 drive setup unless your motor is to long to go under the knee were
the old stepper motor was mounted

They are DC motors. I have a Shizuoka mill with a Bandit control that has never run. My dad bought it about 8-10 years ago, dumped a lot of money into it trying to get the control to work and renovating the machine. In the process had the servo motors rebuilt. I also have a Boss 3 Bridgeport with an Ah-ha control box. (Out of business) This one has worked great for years after I got rid of the control. I bought a package from Camsoft for everything but the motors. Should arrive today. After I’m through with the Boss 5, I plan to just break down and buy one of the bolt on controls for the Shizuoka. I just wanted to take the cheaper way first. Right now I’ve got all my eggs in one basket as the Boss 3 is my only mill running. The Shizuoka will be great to have running because the table travel is about double what I can do on the two series 1’s.

[jshumer1]

Ok, the z and x axis are mounted. I had to order some aluminum in order to cut my y axis bracket\housing. I also had to order a larger belt for the y axis in order to increase the center to center distance from 7.5 inches – 11.5 inches. This will allow me enough clearance to mount the motor back and off to the side, instead of out the front. A bit more work, but I think it will be worth it in the end. I have a few more pictures just because.

[Barry_ward]

Take a look at a few of the photos of my Shiz. IMHO the belt drive mount is the only way to go. I've seen a lot Shizoukas with the direct drive (motors in the way of your body) and I highly recommend spending the time and money to add the belt drives and get (at least the Y axis) motor out of your way.

With the motors sticking out, you ar bound to end up getting brused..

[jshumer1]

Finally finished the y-axis mount. Would have been done a day or so earlier except I did notice the bearing center was above the mount’s bolt pattern. DUMB screw up…. So I had to pocket it out, and machine up an insert with the bearing center in the right spot. I admit the mount and cover is a little elaborate, but I figured if I was going to do it, do it all the way. I think the lid is a nice touch.

[Barry_ward]

I assume that you have another CNC machine that you made these parts on.

Did you solid model them? If yes, what software? If no, how did you rough in the design?

Please detail the steps, tools, and feeds that you used to make one of the larger parts from solid. It would be very helpful to a uneducated, low experience hack such as myself.

Very cool. You really must have a good feel for shapes and how to turn them into reality.

best regards,

Barry

[jshumer1]

I assume that you have another CNC machine that you made these parts on.

Did you solid model them? If yes, what software? If no, how did you rough in the design?

Please detail the steps, tools, and feeds that you used to make one of the larger parts from solid. It would be very helpful to a uneducated, low experience hack such as myself.

Very cool. You really must have a good feel for shapes and how to turn them into reality.

best regards,

Barry

Yes, solid model. I have used OneCNC for the past 4-5 years. Before that it was an out-dated SmartCam. (Not very smart) One CNC isn’t the best system out there, but you can’t beat the price. I machined all these parts on my Bridgeport Boss 3 with an Ah-ha control. As for speeds, and feeds, I roughed out with a ½” carbide end mill at about 15-20 ipm, and about 1600-1800 rpms. My spindle is manually controlled, so I typically write the code with the feed rate close to what I think I want. Then just manually override them to tweak the program. I am twenty-six years old and have been a Tool and Die Maker for about eight or so years. I was homeschooled most of my life and trained as a machinist/tool maker by my father growing up. Designing and machining parts is the easy part for me, but wiring this control and servo motors is a real pain. It’s coming along ok, but it has been a learning experience. Not sure if this helps Barry, or answers your question, but thanks for the compliment.

[Barry_ward]

J,

Thanks for the pointers. How much depth of cut? I normally cheat on this since I have a knee. I'll start at something that I think will work (like 0.020) and crank on the knee to find a tolerable chip or machine load.

For Al, I'll try to set the RPM to damn fast and slide the feed rate up to match.

(I have my own VFD implementation (which is now set to overdrive the spindle motor to 90HZ) With a high belt ratio I can theoritically run the spindle at about 7500 RPM)

I can likely help with the Electronics - any electronics. I too am self educated, but for a while longer than you - I'm 51.

Send me a PM and we'll figure out how to communicate. I searched for Whitehous Engineering (in Ohio) but did not find a website. Do you have one?



Best regards,

Barry

[jshumer1]

Barry, for this 2 flute ½” carbide end mill I set my plunge rate at 5 ipm, (.125-.150 deep) and my feed rate at about 15-20. This way I can turn on my coolant and just let it cut. Then you’re free to create your next program or polish up the last die you cut. I give the cutter enough to be productive, but not so much that it could load and break when I’m not babysitting the machine.

As for the wiring of the motors, I can’t figure out which encoder wires are the A+, A- ect.
They are glentek motors, but are discontinued. The motors are off of my shizuoka. I think they are original cables. If I could find out the color code I would be in good shape.

[Barry_ward]

J,

You might have resolvers, not "encoders" Resolvers output an analog signal that varies with the proximity to the lines of the encoder wheel. While possibly more accurate (due to the ability to "resolve" the space between the lines), resolvers are (typically) not used on digital servo machines (like ones with geckos or other popular home-ish CNC machines)

I had resolvers when I got my shiz - I threw them out due to incompatability.

I have some spare new encoders that press fit to 1/2 inch shafts and am willing to trade...... These are the same ones shown on the bottom 3 photos of my "the Shiz Servos" section of barryfish.com

B

[Barry_ward]

NEVER MIND this - skip to the end >>>

Find the red and black wires from the encoder.

(if you are using old servo drivers and need the resolvers..)

apply 5.0 volts, red to + and black to -
(if you dont have a 5V supply use 3 1.5V batteries in series ~4.5 will work)

Use a regular analog meter and check between ground and any one of the wires. Turn the shaft (with a long lever) so you can get 1/1000 of a turn or so.

Use a meter to check the remaining wires that come from the encoder

possible wires could be:

red + 5Volt supply to the encoder
black - (or ground)
4 or 5 more wires that are:
1. A channel true (or "positive") output
2. A channel complement (or negative output) sometimes calle A' (A prime)
3. B channel true (or "positive") output
4. B channel complement (or negative output) sometimes calle B' (B prime)
5. A home output

the A, A', B and B' should all "wiggle" between 0 and 5 volts when the shaft is sloooooly turned.

when stopped the prime output will always be opposite of the non-prime output for that channel. A very slight advance of the motor will cause the other channels outputs to flip. By fiddling with this you should be able to find the pairs of channels.

You could use 4 leds and watch all of the outputs at once.

It will likely be hard to see the home output pulse as it may only be on for 1/1000 or so of a revolution (depending on the encoders resolution of course)

If you get this far. write again and we can continue.

If you don't get any voltage out of the encoder, don't dispair the outputs may be "open-collector"

FOUND THE MOTOR PINOUT ON THE GLENTEC SITE...

[9 1/2]

My hats off to you. This is some very nice work, impressive. How about some shots of the machine used to cut this stuff out? Also, I notice the cover, with the pimp logo work I may add, has some sort of integral cap. Is it one piece or is it an add on a cap? Just curious is all.

Job well done.

[jshumer1]

I found that also. the problem is the plug is 11 pins, not 14 or 16.

[jshumer1]

Barry, there are two wires going to one pin on the cable. (Jumpered together) Everything I have tells me they would be S2 and S3, but this would make A- and B+ the same wire. Does this make any sense, or sound possible??

[Barry_ward]

J,

I'd pull it apart, trace out, and subtract the obvious:

Likely that it does not have a brake.

so you should be left with :

Motor Wires (2) fat red and black
Tach wires (if it has a generator section) (2) slightly skinnier red and black
Power to the encoder (2) skinny red and black

that leaves 4 signals and maybe a shield.

Barry