[N4NV]

W. Smith, I sent you a pm with my address. Thanks again.

For some reason I was not able to log on to CNCZone for several hours today. Now that I'm on.....
Things got busy at work and I did not have much time to spend today. I did manage to get the coolant pump wired and running. I still have to support the flexible conduit that I used. I found the Boston Gear VFD that I purchase on eBay has several dead LEDs. I guess this thing was so old that they still used 7 segment LEDs for the display. Programming was a little difficult when you can't read some of the display, but I was able to get it up and running. I am not going to run it variable speed, just on an off, so once it's programmed, I don't need the display.

Vince

[N4NV]

Vince,

Have you given any thought to converting your spindle to something like an A2-5 taper? My HNC threaded spindle makes me nervous. Or is there a trick to make sure a chuck will stay put?

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

I don't know anything about actuall running this lathe yet, but I'm learning. It looks like you can only run it in one direction with a chuck. To cut on both the front and back side you would have to mount the tool in the back upside down. On the Taig lathe I converted to CNC, due to clearance problems, I had to mount the tool upside down and cut on the back side. If you are using a collet, that would be another story.

Vince

[kirk_wallace]

I was reminded of my concern about the chuck coming off when I watched this CHNC video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtas5hNyrfI"]YouTube - Hardinge CHNC 1 cutting 416HT[/ame]
(scroll close to the end of the video) Although, I guess I don't need to stop the spindle that fast. I am a little curious because the spindle in the video spins up incredibly fast too. The more I think about it, the video must not be playing in real time.

My HNC's original brake was completely worn out, so I have left it off. When I was looking for a replacement, the PLCCenter wanted several hundred dollars for one, but that was still cheaper than from Hardinge, so currently I am planning on making my own. The the VFD has pretty effective braking, so I'm in no hurry. I see PLCC now has an cheaper alternate:
http://www.plccenter.com/buy/Warner%...ric/5381170002
,but today, I found a similar brake on eBay, so I have some options.

When I wired up my coolant pump, I thought it was a waste of a good VFD, but cost wise it makes sense.

[kirk_wallace]

Ops, not that it matters, but I posted the wrong PLCC link above. Here is the right one:
http://www.plccenter.com/buy/WARNER+ELECTRIC/FB475
Just in case someone happens to be looking for an HNC brake.

Kirk, wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

[N4NV]

With a correctly sized braking resistor, you should be able to get the lathe to stop in under 2 seconds.

Vince

[kirk_wallace]

With a correctly sized braking resistor, you should be able to get the lathe to stop in under 2 seconds.

Vince

I have braking resistors setup on the back of the VFD. I can stop in under one second from mid speed. Although, it's not a real stop because it decelerates, then coasts for a quarter to half a turn. After the stop I can move the spindle freely by hand. It's really quite handy, but not good for e-stop. If the power fails, I believe the spindle will coast, although I should probably verify that. The original Warner brake is an electric release brake. If I put it in the e-stop loop, it will brake instantly on e-stop or power failure. I had a an oil leak trip an e-stop on a Mori Seiki lathe and it seemed to stop before I could blink. I was pretty green at the time and it made an impression.

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

[N4NV]

The thing you have to watch on a VFD is how it shuts off. Controlling the line side is out. If you turn off the line side, they will run for a few seconds.

I have one on my Southbend lathe that is wired into the lathe brake (hand operated). When you apply the break, the drive goes into stop mode, which is programmed for 2 second deceleration. I never thought about this much until one day I applied the break hard. With the drive not attached it would stop in a quarter second or so, but as I applied the brake, I could feel the VFD trying to keep the motor turning as it tried to decelerate over the 2 second period.

I have not figured out how to have the drive completely and instantly disconnect from the motor without damaging the drive.

Vince

[kirk_wallace]

That's a good point. If I try to externally drive/brake the spindle at a rate other that what the VFD's status thinks is proper, I'll be in for a surprise. I am going to have to research this more. I'm pretty sure there is an alarm input on the VFD that I could connect to the e-stop loop to shutdown the VFD. I spent allot more than I am used to on the VFD (
http://cgi.ebay.com/hitachi-inverter...mZ320227291271
http://www.hitachi.us/supportingdocs...239S_SJ200.pdf
), but I surely got a good one. I would need a master's degree in science to do justice to its features.

Which VFD do you have?

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

[N4NV]

Which VFD do you have?

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

I have 5 of them. On my Southbend there is a Teco FM100, on the Bridgeport a GE AF300, on the big mill a LG IS5, and on the CHNC a GE AF300 Mini and Boston Gear.

Vince

[N4NV]

I spent an hour and a half this morning on the lathe and it does not look like much. I cleaned up the air regulator and mounted it. I then installed some Molex connectors on the Clippard valves and the turret sensor. That was about it. The Molex connectors are to big to be of much use in removing the sensor, or Clippard, but at least I can unplug them for testing.

After giving it some thought, I am going to have to unmount my Z drive so I can have it next to the Gecko drive to tune the Gecko. I should be able to tune both the X and Z drive from the same Z motor (they have the same encoder model). I tuned the Gecko drives on my Bridgeport with the motors off and it made it a lot easier. With the limited travel, it would be a little scary to tune them connected to the lathe.

Vince

[kirk_wallace]

Is that an air oiler or filter after the regulator? Just in case you didn't know, on my machine there are two air bleeds. I am guessing they draw air/oil to the ends of each circuit. One is under the right side plate that spans the carriage. The other I can't recall its location. If the shop is really quiet, I can hear them venting. I have a 2 hp medium sized or home shop compressor and it runs fairly often when the HNC air is on. I am building a larger compressor, hoping that will not run as often. Or (and) I am thinking about building a shed and moving the compressor outside.

In reference to tuning, I hope someday you consider EMC and PWM servo drives. It will set you free.

I found I can assign functions to my VFD digital inputs. One is FRS or Free-Run Stop. For a fail-safe I am thinking I could pull the input high. Then for normal operation, connect an inverted e-stop signal to it. At the moment, it doesn't sound very fail-safe though. When tripped, FRS coasts the spindle to a stop until the VFD is reset which I think is what I want.

Did you get the sliding covers or upper structure for your CHNC?

[N4NV]

Is that an air oiler or filter after the regulator?
Just in case you didn't know, on my machine there are two air bleeds. I am guessing they draw air/oil to the ends of each circuit. One is under the right side plate that spans the carriage. The other I can't recall its location
Did you get the sliding covers or upper structure for your CHNC?

That is an air oiler after the regulator. I noticed some holes in the cross slide that I could not figure out, your air bleeds make sense.

I did not get any enclosure for the lathe. I am going to have to build a custom enclosure. Next door to our shop is a sheet metal shop. Over the Christmas vacation, I worked for the shop owner for 5 days. In exchange, he is going to cut and bend the sheet metal for me. When I move the lathe into my garage, I will have to remove the enclosure and re-assemble it once the lathe is in place.

Vince

[kirk_wallace]

I wonder if W. Smith (CNCfun&games) has a lead on covers (or other parts)?
http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.p...7&postcount=80

There is an eBay ad for an AHC with a cover (but not shown) here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=200207432074
This might make a good base for a CNC conversion.

It was a bit of a challenge to replace three of the polycarbonate panels on my HNC because the frames are riveted. I stressed out trying to avoid drilling into the base material. People who repair aircraft skins must be allot more mellow than me. It turned out okay and I really like the unique Jetsons look. I'd like to make one for my Feeler, but I am not sure how well this cover would work for a manual lathe, although it may not stay manual for long.

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

[N4NV]

I forgot my camera at home so no pictures today. I installed and wired my 5V-15V-24V power supply (I had it left over from another project, which is why it has a 15V output). I wired the power to the Cubloc and CNC4PC breakout board, then wired the step and direction signals to the Gecko 320's. I removed my Z drive motor and relocated it next to the Gecko for tuning. I should be able to get the Gecko's up and running this weekend.

For the turret encoder, I was thinking of 8 of these:
http://www.optekinc.com/pdf/OPB355-3...0-860to890.pdf
The OPB355 version.
I would machine 8 pockets in a piece of stock and place the sensors in the pockets on their sides, so the slots are horizontal facing in toward the center of the circle. I would then make a "paddle" that would attach to the center of the turret gear. This paddle would be attached with a set screw so I could adjust the paddle to sync with the turret location. At $3 each, I could make up a complete encoder for about $35.

With this set up, each of the 8 positions would have a unique signal and I would not have to decode anything. I could just use 8 inputs on the Cubloc. The ladder logic of the PLC should be easy enough to write to control the turret position (I hope).

Does this sound doable?

Vince

This post did not look right without a picture, so I uploaded a self portrait. That is Mount Shasta (California) in the background.

[kirk_wallace]

I believe the encoders just save you from running four wires to the controller. A PIC might save two or three more. My guess is that Hardinge went to Hall sensors for the turret because they were expecting an oily environment. I believe they made the X (and Z) axis limit and home switches Halls for that reason. The optical sensors may have a problem with oil.

I didn't know what Cubloc was, so I check it out. You could put it right there with the turret sensors... cool.

For my Bridgeport, I tested these sensors ($2 ea.). They worked fine on the bench so they should work in the long run:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...e=US5881LUA-ND
For limit switches, I plan on milling a pocket in an aluminum block so that there is .020" between the inside and the outer surface, then glue and pot the sensor and wires to the bottom of the pocket. Honeywell charges $19 to do it for you:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=480-2014-ND
I got some .125" dia x .093" neodymium magnets to trip the Hall sensors. I had to get 100, so if you need any I can send some over.

What was your altitude for the glider shot? You must have been pretty high. Flying can do that.

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

[N4NV]

What was your altitude for the glider shot? You must have been pretty high. Flying can do that.

If I remember correctly, we were not very high, maybe 6,500'. It may look higer because I am turning in a thermal.

You will have to describe more how you plan to mount the sensors. With a sensor like you show, I would be worried about them shorting.

To help fund this project, I sold my Southbend lathe. The guy gave me the money a couple months ago. I told him to give me several days notice before he came to pick it up because it is in the back of my garage and I have to move a lot of stuff to get it out. Well, he called today and wants to pick it up tomorrow. Now I have to spend the rest of today and tomorrow getting the lathe out. The bottom line is I won't be able to work on the CHNC until Sunday.

I did manage to take a picture of the wiring I did yesterday.

Vince

[kirk_wallace]

In case anyone needs an e-brake, these are on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Warner-Electric-...mZ120136383793
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-WARNER-FB-37...mZ270000146272
http://cgi.ebay.com/WARNER-ELECTRIC-...mZ250074666528

The FB brakes are electric release, so if the power goes out, the brake activates. The HNC uses the FB-475, but I got an FB-650 so cheap I am going to use it instead. It's a bigger brake with twice the torque, but that might be okay. The FB-375 above, would be good for a smaller CNC lathe. These are _very_ expense normally. Also it is not serviceable (and I have tried), when the pads wear out, you have to replace the whole thing. (Check the Warner website to confirm the specifications.)

Kirk, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

[N4NV]

I spend Friday and Saturday getting the Southbend lathe out of my garage and loaded on a truck. That lathe is paying for about half of this lathe project. I spent Sunday working on a different project.

Today I started to clean things up a little buy finishing up the wiring and plumbing in the caterpillar track. That's when I realized the three oil lines to the cross slide were 3/4" too short. I had to remove them and make new ones, this time they are 5" longer. I can hide the extra length in the cover.

Once I get the caterpillar track installed, I will go back to tuning the Gecko drives.

Vince

[N4NV]

I only had an hour today so I finished up terminating the lubrication lines in the caterpillar track and bolting up the track. I also finished the air line to the air motor that turns the turret. In the first picture you can see the plug I made to cover the hole from the coolant pump's previous location.

I plan on having a screen and keyboard attached to the lathe cover. Since the cover is not made yet, I attached a temporary bracket that will hold the screen and keyboard. I bought a cheap LCD mount on eBay. The computer will go in the enclosure with the drives and breakout board.

Vince

[N4NV]

Last night my wife's dog was sick and I did not get more than an hours sleep. Finally at 3:00am I gave up, got up, and went to work. I got off work at 12:00pm and spent some time on the lathe.

I mounted the monitor and keyboard/mouse tray. Once I get the Gecko's tuned, I will paint the keyboard tray. I hooked up the Z axis motor to the Gecko, bypassing most of the steps in the startup procedure for the Gecko, just to see if I would get lucky. I was not. The motor spun up and would not answer any commands from the computer. The Gecko was putting out a steady 63V. Tomorrow I will bring in my oscilloscope and go through all the test properly. I think the main problem is the encoder wiring. I used a Cat 6 cable and wrote down what wires I used, but lost the paper. I thought I remember correctly, but probably not. Between the scope and my DVM, I will get it figured out. I would have stayed longer and worked it out, but I was really tired.

The first picture shows the monitor/keyboard. You can also see where I am going to put the computer. It is a Dell SX270. I have 4 of them for different machines. I like them because they are not much larger than a laptop, they still have parallel ports, and you can find them on eBay for $120 to $180 if you watch long enough. You can see the Z axis motor lying on the stand above the cabinet. I will use that motor to tune both Geckos. The monitor/keyboard looks crooked in the picture, but it is almost level. It is just turned at an angle to the picture.

The second picture shows the back of the monitor/keyboard and the attachment arm.

Vince