[pmurdock]

I purchased a set of 1-2-3 gage blocks. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the purpose of these things are. :withstupi

So the screws that came with it are too short to do anything useful in my T-slots - why are there only 5 holes with threads and the rest of the holes don't look like precision holes.

What is the primary use for these things? Can anyone point me in the direction of some images of how these things are used?

cheers!
Paul

[ZipSnipe]

For set up. They are very useful for setting say a workpiece up off the table so that you can drill thru it, You can also screw two together to make an angle plate(as long as they have the corresponding threaded and through hole), they're square and can be used as a square. Many many uses, 4 or more is perfect. This also apply to 246 blocks.

P.S.
They're called blocks not gages.

[pmurdock]

The curious thing is how are these supposed to mount to the table?

So the Fowler set came with 6 3/8"-20 stainless steel screws.. do I just need to replace these screws with longer ones in order to get them to fit into a T-nut in the table? Why would they even send me such small screws in the first place? Also if I screw it into the table the socket head cap screws stick out from them basically limiting the amount of flat surface I can use - does that sound correct?

the other question is why all the holes without threads? How does one utilize those as they don't look like they are ground and precision holes (just a black paint covering on the inside). Are pin gauges the way to go on those - when I want to create a square for example?


thanks for indulging a dummy..

cheers!
Paul

[juliancrouch]

I really should probably not be tossing my 2cents in here, as I have thought about asking these questions.

However, this is what my 2+2=4 brain could come up with.

You can secure your work with a clamping kit directly into the threaded holes, if they happen to be where you need em. You can use your clamps to pass through the block, to secure your work, then toss it in a vise for odd shapes that would normally not line up with t slots. You can secure your work with the threaded holes, then pass though the non threaded holes to secure your work+block to the t slots for milling?

plus what snipe said, you can drill into the negative space, and since they are square, you can use em as squares. JOY

cheers.

[tauntdesigns]

I have never used the threaded holes.
I use mine as risers for putting under a part. In a vise or on the table.

Let's say I have a part that needs some thru features (holes, slots, etc.) and don't want to cut into my table and don't have a workpiece fixture for it, I'd put one under each end and put a clamp over each one on top of the part.

Or in a vise (if I don't have any soft jaws for my vise) I can put one in my vise and place a part on top of it, clamp the vise on the part, slide the block out and drill my holes, slots, etc.

Lets say I have a part that has pockets on both sides of the part. I cut the pocket on the first side and the walls around the outside of the pocket are difference heights and I need to locate my part with the pocket floor flat, I could place the blocks on the table and place the part's pocket on top of the block and clamp part down.

I have seen them bolted together as a square(small angle plate), but never in person.

Cheers,

[tauntdesigns]

You can also use them on a surface place for inspection set-ups.
OR
Lets say I've just finished cutting a part with a pocket on each side of the part. I need to measure the floor thickness, but can't get a mic or caliper in there to measure it. The pocket is 1.5 inch deep on both side, I could place the 1-2-3 blocks, one on each side standing on their 2 inch sides. measure over the blocks and subtract 4 inches from the reading, thus giving me the thickness of the floor..

Later,
Jack
P.S. I hope that made sense.

[5axisguy]

I have many sets of 1-2-3 blocks as well as some made 4-5-6- blocks, and I use them every day, I never have used the holes in them, I can assume the untapped holes are just to make them lighter, they were always useless to me. I mostly use them on the surface grinder to 'block' up smaller pieces to prevent them from flying off as your grinding. Also use them to block up pieces on my magnet on my milling chuck. they also come in handy on the surface grinder as something to depth mic to. For example if you have a 4 inch thick block on the grinder and your lazy or only have on depth mic, you just measure down to the 3 inch side of the 1-2-3- block with the shorter rod in the depth mic. just to prevent always changing depth mic rods.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

They're also handy for second operation blocking from existing steps etc. If there's a 1" step, support it with a 1" side of a 1 2 3 block.

A warning however. I've always bought the high priced Starrett tools. Then I bought a set of blocks from a cheapo supply house who supplied me with some Chinese or Indian made blocks. Opposite sides were parallel but not square to adjacent edges. Dimensions varied between sets but not between blocks within sets. Had problems with adjustable non-parallel and machinist un-square also.

My own fault, I got what I paid for (or less). caveot emptor

Dick Z

[ZipSnipe]

5axis guy hit on the head, the holes are really just to make 'em lighter. The threaded holes are really just giving you various options on using them. Its just like Lego's and Lincoln Logs....just play with them and you'll figure out some uses for them.

[fatal-exception]

While were talking about this, I have a question about them too. (Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread...)

I bought a set of Chinese ones, nicely finished, square and flat as far as I can measure, they will even wring together with a very small amount of oil film...but...the non threaded holes arent big enough for a 3/8-16 bolt to go through, the tapped holes are 3/8-16. Is this a screwup as far as manufacturing? If I wanted to use them on the mill table, I would have to buy smaller t-nuts and bolts, which dosen't seem right to me.

If I bore the non tapped holes out, will I destroy the blocks squareness and flatness?

Thanks,
Paul

[pmurdock]

fatal-exception!

That's the exact next question I had! The tapped holes are no good for going through and then trying to go into a t-nut. What we need then are smaller t-nuts? doesn't make sense. I'm struggling to figure out how to secure this dang 1-2-3 block to the table.

Does everyone just use the teco clamps to hold them down?

cheers,
Paul

[fatal-exception]

yeah, the reason i bought them was to use them as stops on the mill table. Im certainly not going to buy separate t-nuts and studs to use them! That said, i dont want to destroy them trying to modify.

Paul

[tauntdesigns]

If your talking about locating a part on the table and you're not cutting thru anywhere....

A 3-point way of positioning a block/part on the table.
Turn some pins that fit the t-slots snug (a light tap with a mallet snug) put 2 pins in the slot for butting part against. That will locate the part in the Y direction, parallel to the X table.
Take a small piece of material and drill a hole you can put a bolt thru and bolt it to the table with the corner of the block sticking out towards the part to locate in the X direction.

Cheers,

[merl]

several years ago the shop I work at baught a large boring bar and all the goodeis that went with it for a very good price. It took three trips with the five ton flat bed truck to get it all and one entire load was nothing but crates full of 123, 234, 246 and 468 blocks and a wide veriaty of other risers, angle plates tomb stones ect...
All of the blocks were hardend, and match ground and set numberd and only the 468 blocks were drilled out for weight reduction!
We couldn't believe it when we opend those crates and saw all those beutiful precision blocks!
Get on a boring bar sometime and you will know exactlly what those blocks are for.
BTW most people consider the cheep made in china junk as "kits" that is you get them and take them right to the surface grinder and finish grind them.
If you consider the time you will spend truing the cheep blocks up you will relise you should have just got the better ones to begin with. Also if you get any Starrett stuff that says "globel series" on it you'll know it was made in china (or worse)
I have several thousand $ worth of stuff between what I have at work and at home, most of it Brown and Sharpe but if I were to buy any new B&S I couldn't be garrenteed it wasn't M.I.C. (or worse )
I have a few sets of B&S 123 blocks, they all have those same 3/8-16 theaded holes and too long bolts in the sets, I don't know what they're for either.
Someone should ask Geof or Widgit Master, they might know.

[HapSmo19]

several years ago the shop I work at baught a large boring bar and all the goodeis that went with it for a very good price. It took three trips with the five ton flat bed truck to get it all and one entire load was nothing but crates full of 123, 234, 246 and 468 blocks and a wide veriaty of other risers, angle plates tomb stones ect...
Get on a boring bar sometime and you will know exactlly what those blocks are for.

:withstupi

say wah...........

[MrWild]

Make your own. Sure, you may not have a grinder to get super precise, but most times you are using them as work horses not measuring. I made three sets of 1,2,3 blocks while iwas a T&D and all three sets have different hole patterns. The ones that seem to get used most often are the ones with five 17/32 counter bored holes for use in bridgeport size mills. Being able to bolt them solidly to a face plate can help with set ups and balancing for higher RPMS.

[tauntdesigns]

:withstupi

say wah...........

Jig bore machine

[ZipSnipe]

One more time, sorry I don't have a real pic of the set up. As for as reaming the holes bigger, I did mine on a Bridgeport with a very accurate DRO.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...1&d=1203005991
123.JPG

p.s. in this example the blocks are just laying on the table supporting the workpiece, they are not bolted to the table. You should really never need to bolt it to the table. They are really just simple helpers for setting up jobs. In fact if ya bolt it to the table and a seasoned machinist walks by and sees it, he'll probably grin to his self and shake his head.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

You guys just aren't old enough. lol The 1-2-3 blocks I used had 5/16" threaded holes. The non-threaded hole were clearance holes for 5/16" capscrews that were counterbored on one side for the heads. The accuracy for "shop" blocks was square, parallel and size within a +.0003",-.0000" envelope (lapping stock left on). Inspection grade blocks only had a few holes in them and were lapped square, parallel and size within .0001" I think Starrett still sells the inspection grade blocks.


Dick Z

[Andre' B]

You guys just aren't old enough. lol The 1-2-3 blocks I used had 5/16" threaded holes. The non-threaded hole were clearance holes for 5/16" capscrews that were counterbored on one side for the heads. The accuracy for "shop" blocks was square, parallel and size within a +.0003",-.0000" envelope (lapping stock left on). Inspection grade blocks only had a few holes in them and were lapped square, parallel and size within .0001" I think Starrett still sells the inspection grade blocks.


Dick Z

Yep, so you can bolt them together however you need to.
These guys need to think back to when they were crawling on the floor playing with wooden blocks. You use 1-2-3 blocks the same way, for whatever you need to do at the moment.

I think one of the problems with the cheap stuff like this, now days is the manufacture really has no idea how the stuff is intended to be used. They are just making copies.

I just looked at getting some Starrett 123s, a single block 64Rc, 0.0001" parallel and square is about $220.00 and a matched pair is close to $500.00