[theshooter]

Hi Folks,

I would like to publicly thank zephyr9900 for sharing his personal shop with me today. He was very kind to allow me to come see his Tormach in action and pepper him with questions. I even got to touch it!

zephyr9900 ran a piece of work through and I got to get a sense of the machines abilities, how easy it is to operate and all of the basic controls.

It was a great visit that I enjoyed thoroughly - it also confirmed my thought that the Tormach is exactly the machine I need for the work I plan to do.

Thanks zephyr9900 !!! :wave:

~ TheShooter

PS - if you haven't seen some of the tiny, itty-bitty railroad model parts he makes with it, you should - truly amazing.

[zephyr9900]

You're far too kind! I'm just thankful I didn't hit you with any endmill shrapnel...

It was a pleasure meeting you and being able to show off my Tormach. As I probably more than amply demonstrated, any limitation on what can be done with the Tormach lies in the user and not the machine!

Randy

[Glenn1]

I too also got to see a tormach yesterday, up here in Minnesota. Ken the owner of the machine was great, we basicly went through the whole process of making a part. I cant wait for my machine.

[Turismo]

Randy,

I live in MN too and am seriously considering the Tormach.

How much was your shipping and delivery costs?

This may be a little forward, but I would like to see a Tormach in person before I purchase.

Dale

[zephyr9900]

Dale, you'll need to get hold of Ken in MN (who I don't know personally.) I'm in CA.

You are still welcome to see my Tormach though if you want to make the drive.

Randy

[highspeedmazak]

I am also looking at a tormach but want to make 100% sure it is a good choice?

[ATV]

I also live in Minnesota and have been looking for a mill. The tormach plant is only 4 1/2 hours away from where I live.

I've watched all the videos on the Tormach site. It looks like a great mill. But I do have a question. It looks awesome for CNC work but what about when you maybe just want to cut a slot in something and don't want to hassle with a program? There are no cranks or anything on the mill.

Also, would the limited table travel be a problem? At this point, I don't really know what I may want to mill but the last thing I would want to have happen is to find out the mill is too small. All of the videos showed milling with the head perfectly vertical. While it doesn't appear that the Tormach head rotates, how frequently do you find that you need to mill something at an angle rather than perpendicular?

[apeman88]

ATV,

You have full control over the mill in manual mode through the keyboard or the optional pendant. i.e.... use arrow keys to move the X&Y and pageup/down to move the Z. To jog axis... hold down the Shift key and it will jog at max speed of 65ipm. Hold down the CTRL key and it will move one step at a time. The step and the other fuctions can be defined on the Mach3 screen. So... overall... no need for cranks and etc. I had a smaller Taig Mill before this and although I installed crank wheels... I NEVER used them becuase using the keyboard is so much easier.

As for the table... The only thing I wish it had is longer Y travel. I have never maxed out the table yet but have jogged too much and tripped the limit switch. Personally.... the size is more than enough. When will you be machining a piece of metal larger than 18" X 9.5" X 16"?

Tormach head DOES NOT rotate. And I for one perfers this... no alignment problems like my old Taig or other mills. If you need to mill something at an angle... get an angle vise and hold the part at any angle you want.

Good luck!

Ken

[philbur]

I agree with everything Ken says.

A CNC mill operated manually effectively has a 3 axis DRO, power feed on all three axis and the two systems talk to and work together with each other. What could be better on a manual system?

However one convenience missing when using the keyboard is continuously variable feed, but this is easily solved with a pendant (of the right type).

Another convenience lost is the physical feedback through the handle wheels when feeding a cut. Unfortunately you have to learn to live without this and rely more on looking and listening for your feedback.

Phil

PS: You can't normally mill with hand-wheels on a CNC machine equipped with ballscrews in any case. The "gearing" is wrong. The force on the cutter will drive the handle wheels.

ATV,

You have full control over the mill in manual mode through the keyboard or the optional pendant. i.e.... use arrow keys to move the X&Y and pageup/down to move the Z. To jog axis... hold down the Shift key and it will jog at max speed of 65ipm. Hold down the CTRL key and it will move one step at a time. The step and the other fuctions can be defined on the Mach3 screen. So... overall... no need for cranks and etc. I had a smaller Taig Mill before this and although I installed crank wheels... I NEVER used them becuase using the keyboard is so much easier.

As for the table... The only thing I wish it had is longer Y travel. I have never maxed out the table yet but have jogged too much and tripped the limit switch. Personally.... the size is more than enough. When will you be machining a piece of metal larger than 18" X 9.5" X 16"?

Tormach head DOES NOT rotate. And I for one perfers this... no alignment problems like my old Taig or other mills. If you need to mill something at an angle... get an angle vise and hold the part at any angle you want.

Good luck!

Ken

[ATV]

Ken and Phil,

Thanks for the thoughtful and very helpful replies. It sounds like the Tormach would be a good fit for me. I'm a computer guy and being able to design the part on the PC and then cut it is very appealing to me. But I do know there will be times where I don't want to mess with a CAD program. Running the mill from the keyboard or pendant would definitely be a good option in that case.

I read some people complaining they didn't like the tormach pendant all that well. Truth be told, I don't even know what it looks like. But my question is, is there another brand pendant a guy should look at or is the tormach pendant the way to go?

[ATV]

Glen and Dale,

If I decide to buy a tormach, I'd drive to Wisconsin and pick it up. I could certainly pick up a couple of more machines at the same time. Have you guys made a decision to buy one yet? I'm about 30 miles north of Minneapolis.

Tormach says they keep the machines in a warehouse in Chicago because of its location for shipping throughout the U.S. They said that if I drive out and pick up a machine(s) that there would be a very small freight charge to ship the machine from Chicago to their office in Wisconsin. But we would save hundreds of dollars by my bringing the machine(s) from Wisconsin to Minnesota.

Also, if more than one machine is bought at a time, they give a 10% discount on software, tooling and accessories.

Let me know what you're thinking about as far a a purchase decision.

[Don Clement]

I read some people complaining they didn't like the tormach pendant all that well. Truth be told, I don't even know what it looks like. But my question is, is there another brand pendant a guy should look at or is the tormach pendant the way to go?

Gosh, are we talking about the same Tormach jog pendant? I have both types of Tormach jog pendants and the 30616 jog pendant works great. see: http://tormach.com/document_library/...Controller.pdf
There is nothing not to like about the 30616 jog pendant. Works better than hand wheels to make the Tormach into a manual milling machine. Also, I use the 30616 jog pendant when finding an edge with edge finder or finding reference height with my #1 tool height gage. see: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/tor...view/4a78?b=11 Notice the height gage is finding the top of the ½” diameter pin set on a 45 degree angle plate with the flat spindle anvil. Try finding the top of a cylindrical pin with the spherical tip of a digital probe.

Don Clement
Running Springs, California

[ATV]

Hi Don,

I was only repeating what I had read. Trying to figure out what all I would want to purchase with the mill.

I've seen photos of the parts you make. If you say its a good jog pendant I'll take your word for it! By the way, I have a Paramouint ME and a 12.5" RCOS telescope in a dome in my back yard. I plan to make some astronomy parts with my mill when I get it.

Dave

[philbur]

Tormach have 2 pendants:

Jog Pendent (30552)
Shuttle Jog Controller (30616)

I have the Jog Pendent (30552), which I fine virtually useless. But at USD 36 it's difficult to complain. Don is referring to the Shuttle Jog Controller (30616) which, based on his recommendation, is the way to go at USD 68.50. Pendants come with an infinite variety of bells and whistles and a similar range of prices, mostly way above USD68.50. So it looks like the 30616 is a great place to get some hands on learning before you go for the mega buck variety.

I've been dithering over a 30616 for the last couple of months, so a question to Don:

When using it for varying the feed rate during machining is the feed rate step-less or are there discrete steps which make getting the feed rate spot on difficult, it’s not entirely clear from the data sheet, at least not to me?

Phil

[zephyr9900]

...because I feel no need for a jog pendant or shuttle. Between the keyboard (shift-arrows for fast jog, arrows for slow jog, ctrl-arrows for incremental jog, which I leave at 0.0005") and the MDI box (single-line manual gcode entry) I am a happy camper. It is probably from my years of using TurboCNC in this way on my Sherline mill.

Randy

[philbur]

Hi Randy,

I now see that I have not explored all the possibilities for using the keyboard to rapidly jog for position, thank you for that. However I'm also interested to see if I'm not understanding all the options available when using the keyboard for machining. Can you give a bit more detail of how you would use the keyboard for varying feed rate during manual machining.

Phil

...because I feel no need for a jog pendant or shuttle. Between the keyboard (shift-arrows for fast jog, arrows for slow jog, ctrl-arrows for incremental jog, which I leave at 0.0005") and the MDI box (single-line manual gcode entry) I am a happy camper. It is probably from my years of using TurboCNC in this way on my Sherline mill.

Randy

[Don Clement]

Tormach have 2 pendants:

I've been dithering over a 30616 for the last couple of months, so a question to Don:

When using it for varying the feed rate during machining is the feed rate step-less or are there discrete steps which make getting the feed rate spot on difficult, it’s not entirely clear from the data sheet, at least not to me?

Phil

Both really. The spring-loaded outer ring has a progressive continuous feed rate, the more the ring is rotated the faster the feed rate. The inner finger knob moves in discrete steps preset on the mach3 control panel. I keep the step set at the minimum step size of 0.0005”. For example when using a standard 0.1” diameter edge finder, I first use the outer ring to get within a few thousands and then use the inner finger knob to step until the edge finder kicks. I sight along the axis of movement when using an edge finder, so when the edge finder does kick one is seeing the maximum movement. Truthfully I don’t use the controller that much for manual machining as it is easier to program the MDI feederates positions, etc. But for manually setting up edge finders and the height tool the shuttle jog controller is invaluable. BTW if I had the money to buy a VMC with a tool changer, I would have a wireless digital 3D probe set up to continuously monitor datum coordinates, tool wear, vise and fixture squaring, etc automatically and wouldn’t really have a need for the shuttle jog controller.

Don Clement
Running Springs, California

[zephyr9900]

Can you give a bit more detail of how you would use the keyboard for varying feed rate during manual machining.

Phil, I don't really manually machine in that way. I jog to position the tool relative to the workpiece (then usually zero the axes) and then type in gcode one line at a time into the MDI box like:

G1 X6.55 F4
Y.3
X0
Y.6
X6.55
etc.

and if the speed wasn't right on the first pass I'll just specify a new F number on the next line.

I always know exactly how far the machine is going to travel because I tell it!

Randy

[philbur]

Thanks for that Don. I also use the MDI for the simple machining stuff but guessing the correct feed rate is not always satifacatory, whereas winding on the feed rate manually lwould let one get to the limit with low risk of exceeding it.

Phil

Truthfully I don’t use the controller that much for manual machining as it is easier to program the MDI feederates positions, etc.

[philbur]

Thanks for that Randy,

My issue is the problem of guessing the correct F value when trying to remove material at the fastest rate possible. It seems that the shuttle pendant, with step-less feed, would be the answer.

Phil.

Phil, I don't really manually machine in that way. I jog to position the tool relative to the workpiece (then usually zero the axes) and then type in gcode one line at a time into the MDI box like:

G1 X6.55 F4
Y.3
X0
Y.6
X6.55
etc.

and if the speed wasn't right on the first pass I'll just specify a new F number on the next line.

I always know exactly how far the machine is going to travel because I tell it!

Randy