[rickturner646]

If anybody out there has gotten an X4 mill up and running with Mach3, do you mind sending me your mach3 config file?

I'm having real problems getting my new machine up and running and I'm tearing my hair out. The machine works fine in manual mode, and in CNC mode as long as I use the 'software MPG' built into Mach3.

However, I cant get the machine to move under program control. Behind that, I cant get axis references working, nor can I get the spindle to turn on under program control, nor can I get the 4th axis to rotate.

Driving me nuts, to put it mildly.

Any/all help and suggestions appreciated!

Rick

[Crevice Reamer]

Please give specs and type of computer you are using.

CR.

[gn3dr]

Hi Rick
Sounds similar to a problem I had with mine. I could use the machine in manual but not under Mach 3 control.

Firstly have you set your charge pump output to pin 9 in the outputs screen of ports and pins?
The coolant output is pin 3.

It was not obvious (to me) but when the machine is under PC control there should be a little PC symbol on the bottom of the X4 display. And also when under Mach 3 control the manual / CNC button on the X4 has both LEDs lit (green and red)
If these display conditions are not there then it is probably the charge pump signal missing.
Under Mach control I could not move any axis or spindle but when I turned on coolant from the PC, the coolant button did switch its LEDS. However what I later discovered is that I should also have heard the coolant relay turn on.

When I had the problem I read the manual again and while not very clear - in the section which shows the interface board - it shows a little pot which needs to be adjusted to let the board see the charge pump current.

What I did was turned on the coolant relay from Mach 3 - then carefully turned the pot until I heard the coolant relay click on. (For what it is worth I had to turn the pot about 1 rev clockwise) After that everything worked under Mach control. (It was only at this point that I saw the little PC symbol for the first time on the X4 display.

Try this - hopefully that is your issue.

I asked Syil for the X4 Mach 3 profile and they e-mailed it to me.

[rickturner646]

Hi folks, thanks for the replies.

Crevice Reamer: the PC is a fairly substantial one - small desktop with a dual core 3.2 GHz P4 chip, 2GB of RAM and oodles of disk. Running XP Pro as I didnt want to have to deal with the additional complications of Vista. It seems well capable of running Mach3 - the interrupt iteration timer is constantly down at about 3 microsecs so there are probably no problems there.

Gn3dr: thanks for the info. I will try the charge pump signal change you mentioned. Might be that - both red and green lights are on but I didnt see a little PC symbol. I dont have a coolant pump hooked up (yet) so it is unlikely to be that. I figured that I would get to the point where I could dry-run a simple program without tooling / coolant / etc before moving on from there.

I am a bit baffled as to why I can move the machine under 'manual CNC control' using the Mach3 MPG, but not from a Mach program.

I have begun to wonder if it might be a problem around homing / limit switches / axis referencing. Where have you guys set your 'home' position to? I assume that the default is 'top left, z axis up' which would match the + axis directions that are set under X4 manual control. Thoughts?

Regards,

Rick

[Crevice Reamer]

Crevice Reamer: the PC is a fairly substantial one - small desktop with a dual core 3.2 GHz P4 chip, 2GB of RAM and oodles of disk. Running XP Pro as I didnt want to have to deal with the additional complications of Vista. It seems well capable of running Mach3 - the interrupt iteration timer is constantly down at about 3 microsecs so there are probably no problems there.Rick

Laptops and newer computers only send 3.5 volts through parallel port instead of 5 volts. You might want to check yours.

CR.

[neilw20]

I can't remember if a program will run before you have run a reference cycle.
For a reference cycle to complete the limit switch settings have to make sense, be configured and work.
I always run a reference cycle when I turn on everything so that's why I'm not sure.
It makes sense to have to run a reference cycle, otherwise the program does not know the limits and can crash or damage an axis against hard stops.
You may be able to run a program if you turn off soft limits on screen 1.
Use the diagnostics screen to get all of the limit switches working.
You can use the MPG you say.
Will the PC keyboard arrow keys work? You must have jog enabled for this to work. Ctrl or Alt J I think from screen 1 or 2.

[LEN1042]

Laptops and newer computers only send 3.5 volts through parallel port instead of 5 volts. You might want to check yours.

CR.

CR, how do you go about upgrading the paralel port to get back to 5V?
Len

[rickturner646]

Hi All,

finally gotten the problems mostly solved, thanks to help from this forum and from the folks at Syil.

The main problems turned out to be (i) the charge pump being misconfigured (wrong pin), (ii) ditto for spindle control, and (iii) I had to change the Mach3 kernel speed from the default 25 kHz up to 45. Then I had to fiddle around with the homing options, but finally..... IT WORKS!!!!

Only one problem now - if I command the machine to move say 10mm along the x or y axis, the Mach DRO will say '10mm' but the machine physically moves 25mm. This 'multiple' of 2-1/2 times is consistent, but I cannot figure out why......

I have the machine set up for 1000 steps per unit (mm in my case) and that seems to be the right value. There are 200 steps per rev on the motors, a screw pitch of 5.08tpi (ie, 5mm per rev), and according to Syil, 25 microsteps per step. So, 200 * 25 / 5 = 1000 steps per mm.

If anybody has any ideas, I'd appreciate suggestions....

Rick

[jalessi]

Rick,

Is the stepper driver set for 1/4 micro step?

Try changing Mach III to 4000 steps per mm

Jeff...

[acondit]

Hi All,

finally gotten the problems mostly solved, thanks to help from this forum and from the folks at Syil.

The main problems turned out to be (i) the charge pump being misconfigured (wrong pin), (ii) ditto for spindle control, and (iii) I had to change the Mach3 kernel speed from the default 25 kHz up to 45. Then I had to fiddle around with the homing options, but finally..... IT WORKS!!!!

Only one problem now - if I command the machine to move say 10mm along the x or y axis, the Mach DRO will say '10mm' but the machine physically moves 25mm. This 'multiple' of 2-1/2 times is consistent, but I cannot figure out why......

I have the machine set up for 1000 steps per unit (mm in my case) and that seems to be the right value. There are 200 steps per rev on the motors, a screw pitch of 5.08tpi (ie, 5mm per rev), and according to Syil, 25 microsteps per step. So, 200 * 25 / 5 = 1000 steps per mm.

If anybody has any ideas, I'd appreciate suggestions....

Rick

Actually it sounds like the drivers might be set for 10 microsteps / step rather than 25 microsteps / step. Can you check the actual settings on the drives?

Alan

[Crevice Reamer]

CR, how do you go about upgrading the paralel port to get back to 5V?
Len

Hi Len! This thread talks about how to add your own 5 volt supply:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14943

Also, some of the better breakout boards like CandCNC or Cnc4PC have built in 5 volt power supplies for this reason.

CR.

[Martin Long]

You guys have me really worried, I have a X4+ being loaded onto a ship as I type this.
I'm really new to CNC and if faced with problems such as these I fear my machine will be idle more than it will be running.
Has anyone got a manual for this machine which can be emailed to me, this will give me a head start prior to receiving the shippment, or it may confuse me even further? I read in a thread that someone downloaded a manual from a website but did not specify the link.

Martin

[Crevice Reamer]

EDIT TO ADD: The following post is in error because I mistakenly used 1 mm per revolution instead of 5 mm per revolution.

CR.

.... if I command the machine to move say 10mm along the x or y axis, the Mach DRO will say '10mm' but the machine physically moves 25mm. This 'multiple' of 2-1/2 times is consistent, but I cannot figure out why......

I have the machine set up for 1000 steps per unit (mm in my case) and that seems to be the right value. There are 200 steps per rev on the motors, a screw pitch of 5.08tpi (ie, 5mm per rev), and according to Syil, 25 microsteps per step. So, 200 * 25 / 5 = 1000 steps per mm.

If anybody has any ideas, I'd appreciate suggestions....Rick

Hi Rick! At FULL step, it takes 200 pulses to move your motor one revolution. Your axis will move 1mm per motor revolution. If you told Mach3 to move 10mm, at FULL step it would take 10 revs or 2000 steps.

Mach is sending 1000 pulses per mm. At Full step of 200, that will move the axis 5 mm. At Full step, 10mm ordered = 10,000 pulses, and this would move the axis 50 mm. Your axis is actually traveling 25 mm.

At HALF step, It takes 400 pulses to move the motor one rev and 1 mm. Mach3's 1000 pulses will actually move the motor 2.5 revs or 2.5 mm--If you command a 10 mm movement, 10,000 pulses at HALF step will move the axis 25 mm.

Your drivers are set at 1/2 step. Change your Mach settings to 400 steps per mm and it should be pretty close to 10 mm movement for 10 mm requested.

You probably want to set the drives for more like 1/10 microstepping though. This is a good compromise between speed and accuracy. That would change the Mach setting to 2000 steps per mm.

In a perfect world, this would give you the exact movement you ask for, but mechanical inefficiencies may dictate that you adjust the steps per mm up or down slightly until you get the exact movement you order.

CR.

[jalessi]

Crevice Reamer,

I think Rick stated that his ballscrews where 5.08tpi (ie, 5mm per rev),

not 1mm or .0394"

Jeff...

[Crevice Reamer]

Crevice Reamer,

I think Rick stated that his ballscrews where 5.08tpi (ie, 5mm per rev),

not 1mm or .0394"

Jeff...

WHOOPS! Thanks Jeff, you are right. I completely missed that and it changes some things:

Originally Posted by rickturner646

.... if I command the machine to move say 10mm along the x or y axis, the Mach DRO will say '10mm' but the machine physically moves 25mm. This 'multiple' of 2-1/2 times is consistent, but I cannot figure out why......

I have the machine set up for 1000 steps per unit (mm in my case) and that seems to be the right value. There are 200 steps per rev on the motors, a screw pitch of 5.08tpi (ie, 5mm per rev), and according to Syil, 25 microsteps per step. So, 200 * 25 / 5 = 1000 steps per mm.....Rick

Hi Rick! At FULL step, it takes 200 pulses to move your motor one revolution. Your axis will move 5mm per motor revolution. If you told Mach3 to move 10mm, at FULL step it would take 2 revs or 400 steps.

Mach is sending 1000 pulses per mm. At Full step of 200, that would move the axis 25 mm. At Full step, 10mm ordered = 10,000 pulses, and this would move the axis 250 mm. Your axis is actually traveling 25 mm.

At 1/10th step, It takes 2000 pulses to move the motor one rev and 5 mm. Mach3's 1000 pulses will actually move the motor 1/2 rev or 2.5 mm--If you command a 10 mm movement, 10,000 pulses at 1/10 step will move the axis 25 mm.

Your drivers are set at 1/10 step. (200 x 10)/5= 400. Change your Mach settings to 400 steps per mm and it should be pretty close to 10 mm movement for 10 mm requested. 1/10 step is a good setting for balance between speed and accuracy.

In a perfect world, this would give you the exact movement you ask for, but mechanical inefficiencies may dictate that you adjust the steps per mm up or down slightly until you get the exact movement you order.

CR.

[LEN1042]

CR thank you.
Len

[rickturner646]

Guys,

thanks to all your help I managed to finally get the machine up and running correctly last night. Spent until midnight making shavings..... 8-)

Thanks to all who responded!

Rick

[Crevice Reamer]

It's good to hear that you are up and running! Now let's have some PICS please.

CR.

[Martin Long]

You guys have me really worried, I have a X4+ being loaded onto a ship as I type this.
I'm really new to CNC and if faced with problems such as these I fear my machine will be idle more than it will be running.
Has anyone got a manual for this machine which can be emailed to me, this will give me a head start prior to receiving the shippment, or it may confuse me even further? I read in a thread that someone downloaded a manual from a website but did not specify the link.

Martin

Hugh UK,
Thanks for your email message, you have instilled confidence in me, I'm sure I will will work it out once I get my hands on the machine.

Martin