[LakesideMachine]

What a morning...

i have a '98 VF2 vector drive VMC. Right in the middle of a tool change the machine shuts down....screen went black and all.....


replaced a blown fuse on the power board and fired it back up.....but, We got a 127 (no turret mark), 125 (shuttle fault), 160 Low voltage, and a 123 spindle fault alarm.

I manually shuttled the umbrella back and eliminated the 127 fault. I tried to reset the turret on the changer, but no dice. it is too tough to rotate by hand to get it to reset and a "reset" on the control does nothing either.

We also have a 102 fault (servos off)alarm. Looking inthe back, the servo drives power up for a second and then shut off again. the C-axis has a red fault light, but we are not using it at all.....and ideas on this?

We also have a low voltage fault, which in doing a voltage check, the lines are equal and correct for the voltage range the terminals are connected to.

The worst one that scares me is the dreaded 123 fault.

I read thru the posts for a spindle fault alarm and found some info, but not all.

The machine was running fine before. it wasnt even cutting nothing, all this happened during a tool change. i have another VFOE running right next to this one without troubles....

Whats the worst case on this? new vector drive? it looks like this may be the trouble from all the other posts with a 123 alarm. ...how much $$ is that?

how can i varify that my drive is bad?

My closest Haas rep is 3 hrs away, so i need to debugg as much as I can before i call them out.

thanks fellas....

[LakesideMachine]

Called Haas and found out some info.....

The old VF2 vector drive needs 380 volts DC coming out the bottom of the drive.....i have 78.

my 2000 VFOE needs 325 VDC out the bottom of the drive and I have about 318ish.....which is good.

What would make the older vector drive only produce 78 VDC on the output? Will we need a totally new vector drive??? is this an easy fix in any way???

[Haas__man]

So you say you have a servos off alarm that will not clear - could you get someone to press reset a few times while you are looking at the vector drive.
Then what lights are on on the vector drive?
The 'High voltage' red light should be on all the time
Then there is a 'fault light'
This will be either red or green or both simultaneusly.
Green on its own is obviously good.
Any combination of red or red and green means your drive is bad.
Also you may find that the fault light only blinks red when you press reset - this would possibly indicate that drive MAY be ok, but something else could be causing you a problem i.e x axis cable maybe?
We could disable the x axis in parameters - which should tell you if this is causing you a problem.
To do this
turn off setting seven (parameter lock)
press e-stop
press param/dgns once
press nymber 1
then cursor down
should now see parameter 1 x bit switch on screen
to move down the list press cursor to the right.
move down to 'disable 0'
type number 1
then enter

if you go to position display then x axis should no longer displayed
if x axis has gone then it is disabled
if it is still there then it is still enabled.

once you have disabled it you could try taking off the e-stop and see if you can get the servo's to come back on.
If the servos do come on, and you can move y and z then I would seriously reccomend that you do NOT turn the x axis back on again.
If the x axis cable IS damaged then this could fry your vector drive if it has not already.

Another way you could check x axis cable would be to remove y axis front cover to see if there is any damage you can see - CAUTION - i would reccomend that you turn off the machine before handling the x axis cable - if there is damage to the cable you do not want to be anywhere near it if it is live!

The x axis cable may not be your problem- however I have seen it before in connection to vector drive faults - it could simply be that your vector drive needs replacing.

Let me know what you find
Hope this helps

[haastec]

What fuse did you replace when you first fired back up? Did you notice any power surges to your shop or machines when all this first happened?

Let us know what you find.

[LakesideMachine]

the fuse on the power board farthest to the right was replaced. i think this is the 1/2 amp fuse.

No surges or funny power flickers of any kind before this happened......the VFOE sitting right next to this one was running along as usual.


We did notice that the servo amplifiers are trying to power up while we were in the back checking things out. the green lights would flick on and off about a minute apart.....the C-axis drive had a red fault light accompanying the green one.


As far a the vector drive itself....no lights at all are lit on it right now....



i'll have one of my employees hit the reset in the morning to check the vector drive light situation......i'll report back tomorrow.

[haastec]

There is a fuse under the cover for the vector drive that you could check also, but be certain that the high voltage light is completely out before working on this and/or check with a volt meter to be certain that there is no DCV out. Pretty much have to remove the vector drive from the machine to get the cover off to access this fuse.

Good luck!

[LakesideMachine]

a few eeks ago i posted a picture of a blown fuse in this same machine on the power board. the amber light for blown fuse was lit, but nothing seemed to bother the machine. Everything worked as usual with the fuse blown untill yesterday. this morning i double checked incoming line voltage and i'm running each leg at around 213 volts and they are connected to the appropriate buss for that voltage range. Again, my VFOE is running right next to it just fine.....hooked up the same way.

i changed out the blown fuse in the picture below and immediately the fuse to the left blows..??? Whats going on here? I cant help but think this is all related. Any more ideas?

http://www.lakesideguns.com/webstuff/haasfuseblown.jpg

[Donkey Hotey]

You said, "Vector Drive" as in Haas vector drive (Haas painted on the case)? Does it look like this?


I don't know the other brands of vector drives but, if it's the Haas vector drive, I can talk to this (others are probably very similar).

It sounds like the rectifier bridge inside your vector drive has gone belly-up. Here's a quick description of what goes on in your vector drive:

High voltage goes from the transformer taps to the vector drive terminals. Inside the vector drive, that power goes through a full-bridge rectifier to turn it into DC. The output connects across a pair of really large capacitors to stabilize the voltage.

Based on the low DC voltage, that tells me that something ain't right in that rectifier. If you're good with electronics, you can take apart the vector drive, pull that rectifier and check it on the bench with an decent VOM. Use the diode setting and probe each of the legs. The rectifier is available commercially, though I'd expect to pay $100 or more for it. That's still better than a new Vector Drive.

You might also have a good look at the contactor points on the big relay inside that vector drive. IIRC, it switches the DC in and out of the circuit. I doubt it's bad but, it isn't hard to identify obviously burned or damaged contacts.

I can't remember where and how that phase indicator fuse connects to the buss but, it would make sense that a shorted diode leg might try to throw a fuse somewhere.

In all fairness to the place hosting the picture above, I did find this repair place while looking for that image:
http://www.industrialelectronicrepai...ive_Repair.htm

Check out that diode bridge and let us know what you find.

[LakesideMachine]

Thanks for all the responses....

i do have the haas vector drive as pictured in your post. I am not that tallented when it comes to electical stuff, so I guess i need to get an expert in here.

>>>>>the blown fuses on my power board...is it possible for the vector drive to still run even though i had one blown fuse? Does this make any sense? i had that one blown fuse for a couple of weeks and the machine ran fine with it like that...???

has anyone used this company before for vector repairs?
http://www.industrialelectronicrepai...ive_Repair.htm


I will definetley call them this AM....and post what they tell me for others to learn from.....

[Donkey Hotey]

Yes, the Vector Drive could attempt to run with a dropped leg in the rectifier. The high power in your machine is almost all 325V DC. It's the Vector Drive's job to supply all of that power. Further, I don't think there is any way for the machine to detect a problem with that diode bridge unless it causes a low voltage alarm or one of the others you're seeing.

I also think that if only a single diode in the rectifier failed (it has six diodes), it might only display an intermittent problem like you were seeing.

[LakesideMachine]

I called industrial electronic repair as recommend here. very nice guys. Spoke to a techie and he said the blown fuse on the power board was evideince of a failing drive. It is possible for the machine to still run even though the fuse is blown.....i guess it simply monitors the power and lets you know if something in the drive is getting stressed.

i am boxing up the drive this AM to send it to them for a free repair quote. generally a repair is 50% less than a factory repair and they would warranty the work for 1yr.....which i felt was pretty good!

I'll post updates here for all to learn from.

thanks again fellas!!!

[haastec]

Did they quote you a turnaround time for the repair or do they need to inspect the drive first?

Good luck with your repairs.

[LakesideMachine]

They were reluctant in giving even a general quote for the repair......they really wanted to see it first. i didnt have a problem with that at all. They did say generally repairs are half of new factory repairs.

they said they can turn it aropund in about 2-3 days..... So a week or so with there and back shipping time.

if you want to have the order expedited, 35% added to the bill for a bump to the front of the line.

I should know the hard quote early next week with ship time to NC. I'll post the details.

[LakesideMachine]

FYI, for those who were watching my troubles.....

i just opened a quote from national circuit.com or http://www.industrialelectronicrepai...ive_Repair.htm


1800 to repair my drive.

Haas basically wants the same price after a core exchange.


NCI has a 1 yr warranty on the labor only.

Haas will warranty the drive for 90 days if they install it. 6 hours drive time plus actual labor will be added to this price.



not sure what direction we are going to take from here....

[Donkey Hotey]

Some HFOs discount their travel time so, you should ask about that.

Installation takes 20 minutes. Actually, 15 minutes of that is eating a donut and drinking coffee. Installation takes 4 minutes (he'll spend another minute wiping the sugar off his hands before he does the wiring).

[haastec]

You may have made a decision by now, but another benefit for having the HFO do the work is that they can confirm there were no other issues that may have caused the Vector drive to go in the first place. If they don't check first and they blow another drive it's their problem.

[LakesideMachine]

made contact with national circuit and asked what made the repair the same cost as the HFO price of a new drive.......they looked at the quote again and they said they made a mistake. the new quote is 800.00 for the repair instead of 1800.00.

We have approved approved the rerpair quote....lets see how this works out for us. Will keep everyone posted as to its function once i get it back and fired up again.

[LakesideMachine]

Just found out the repaired drive is back in the shop today!!!....too bad i'm in Kentucky until monday......When it is installed on Monday, i'll report on the repair function..