[djnbig]

I'm wondering what types of machines/setups manufactures would be using to make the small aluminum parts such as the ones used for R/C cars. As you see in the link below, the part is very small yet quite detailed/complex. They would also be making ten's of thousands of these parts, just curious what they would be using to make all these small parts.



http://www.integy.com/cgi-bin/webc.c...=4762&p_catid=

Or would something like that be cast aluminum?

However I know there are very small parts out there, that are machined and they are producing 10000's of them. I can't help to wonder what their production line would look like. 50 tiny mills with someone standing there changing work piece positions? I know a lot of these larger companies would have full automation and robotics, but there's plenty of small guys who are pumping out tons of product who wouldn't have the money for full automation machines.

Maybe i'm out in left field but i can't help to wonder.

djn

[inflateable]

Lots and lots of ways to do that. Machining tiny things is the opposite of me (I machine HUGE things - oil and gas parts and stuff) but looking at the pic, my guess is they're stamped out, probably in a couple of operations. Or you could cut from sheet (water jet or laser) and then finished. Or extruded and cut off to length. Or you load a lot of them onto a pallet and machine hundreds in one go on a full sized mill (very quick to to do in aluminium). Or die cast. Or sintered perhaps... I'd be interested what someone who makes small things thinks.

It pretty much depends on numbers as to the most cost effective way to do it.

[Switcher]

The photo in the link you posted, looks like cast aluminum. The reason I say that is, the parts surface looks pitted.

I would say that part was cast, then the holes drilled/chamfered.


.

[Barry_ward]

The part in the photo is die cast.
You can tell by the parting line on the part where the two mold halves seperate.

There is no second driling operation, the holes are molded-in.

2 of the holes are made with pins that are fixed to the mold core, and the 2 holes that are transverse, are made with pins that move inside the mold - those moving pins (generically called slides) retract after the metal is shot into the mold; allowing the part to be ejected after the mold opens.

It's also likely that the parts are made several at a time; on a "tree" (like plastic models) they can be hand seperated and manually de-burred (deflashed)(China) or put unto a punch press for the seperation from the sprue tree) The sprue and trimmings are re-melted, usually only seconds after being cast.

If the parts need precision boring or machining, they operation would be something like this:

• Cast (maybe 6-12 or more on a tree)
• punch press seperated and deflashed
• tumbled
• maybe plated, cleaned, dried
• vibratory-bowl-fed and oriented to a cnc - lathe or mill, auto clamped and machined
• washed and packed for shipping or next operation

The tooling and set up are not cheap - even in China - to make that part the quantities would have to be in the tens of thousands to make in economically. With a fast multi-axis cnc you might be able to make it for sub-a-buck. the same part die cast you can figure about $2-$4 USD per pound.

One more thing, that part might be "Zamac" Zinc-aluminum alloy. ("modern pot-metal" It's stronger (and heavier) than aluminum, and until last year cheaper on a per part basis.

If you want to make a million pieces, send me a PM.

Best regards,

Barry

[joesz]

If it is die cast it is one crappy die, surface finish is horrible so it probably did come from China, I would guess sand cast which is a whole lot cheaper, it would require secondary machining operations but with China using slave labor and prisoners, labor is not a factor. The only problem is if they are made in China they are more than likley garbage and either wont fit or will break after a few uses.
The products coming out of China are pure garbage and they don't care, they know most people will not bother to drive back to a store to return an item that only costs a few dollars so they flood the market with substandard garbage. Any one considering having parts of any kind made in China should reconsider, what good it is getting the parts cheap if they wont work or break after a few uses and don't forget it is a COMMUNIST country. A few years back trade with them would not have been allowed and it should be banned now. I would also ban any American company that moves its manufacturing over there from ever returning to this country. It is greed at the expense of American jobs and anyone that does it should be considered a traitor to this country and given the appropriate sentence that a traitor deserves, hanging by the neck. I Know way off base on this one it is just frustrating as an American manufacturer to see scumbags helping destroy our country to make a few bucks. If I ran this forum anyone helping to ship parts over seas would be banned from posting ,after all this is supposed to be an American site correct?

[inflateable]

..and BREATHE.

Where does it say this is an american site? Any chinese manfs here?

[joesz]

The owner is quoting Ben Franklin so it was a wild guess that it was an American site. Free speech or not allowing Manufacturers or reps which I know there are some of those here the help to take American jobs away to line their pockets is a disgrace. As hobby machinists it may not affect you but as an American manufacturing company trying to keep American people employed it affects me and thousands of other people in this country.
It sickens me to see this happening and the people that are contributing to it, well guess what why don't you move to the third world country you are getting rich off of and live in the squander that those people live in for a while and see if you can still live with yourself knowing you are contributing to that.
As Americans it is time to stand up and voice your opinion, screw politicaly correct I don't care who it offends the facts are the facts and they are helping to destroy this country

[inflateable]

So you don't believe in free markets? Or profit? Or Capitalisim? Or do you only believe in those things when you're the winner? Some socialist countries have factories run for the workers, on a not-for-profit basis, purely to provide jobs and support the community. Is that what you'd like? Lot to be said for that idea, but it's (shush) communisim.

I understand you're frustration, but surely you can't want a closed market for american manufacturers? Y'know, like Russia tried when they were communist? 'Cos that didn't work out too well.

Western manufactuers can't compete with china on cost, but they can on quality and customer service. The chinese work hard. We need to work smart and compete where we can.

That's that thread derailed then.
Oh, and I'm definitely not a hobbyist. An old fashioned apprenticeship, a degree in manufacturing and 12 years experience.

[PinMan]

Its unreal how quickly a thread can be hijacked by someone who wants to vent lol.

I agree with Barry, those parts are most likely molded as a finished product with a little bit of deburring.

And joesz, speaking as a formally educated and trained Machinist and CNC Programmer with 11 years of manufacturing experience, I have to agree with inflateable.

Whether you want to admit it or not, you are a hypocrit because I am 100% sure that you are supporting the very thing that you protest. You cant say that everything you use is 100% American made.

[joesz]

pin man as an owner of a machine shop for 23 years and with 35 years of experience as a tool and die maker with a journeymans card ,CNC programmer and Engineer and I will tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. I buy American when ever possible even if it costs more, certain things you just have no choice because they are simply not made in the USA anymore thanks to cheap third world labor.
And to all you wannabe economic experts if you would like a list of the jobs lost in this country just from my area in the last few years then you can start to spout free trade.It is not free trade when you are being flooded with cheap products subsidised by a foreign government, that used to be illegal in this country. It is not free trade when they are allowed to export food, drugs and of all things kids toys that are killing people in this country. It is not free trade when they are not held to the same standards we are in environmental issues in basic human rights issues. How can you possibly defend this so called free trade how can you even call it free trade, do you even know what that means
As for quality being as good or better again you have no idea what you are talking about you must be watching too much TV how many of you have direct experiance with this, none? I am seeing products being brought back into this conuntry because of the garbage, poor deliveries and outright fraud by China, substituting materials or using substandard materials not matching specs. You can spout free trade all you want there is no such thing as free trade. Anyone that thinks this is helping the people of China .
watches too much Fox news they are being exploited and now that they are starting to see that the work is going to even more depressed places. I can tell you these are facts I deal with this on a daily basis so do not try to pit what you hear on TV against what I have direct experiance with.
I did hijack this thread and I am sorry for that some of you are blind and need to open your eyes, stop listening to what you hear on TV or read in the papers it does not reflect reality. I know I will get flamed for this but since I took this off track in the first place I wont post again. Let me say one final word any one of you that is for this unbalanced trade with China should move there and get the heck out of this country.
Inflateable your comments about capitalism and free markets for profit make no sense in this post you are so far out of touch that further discussion on the subject is pointless. When you have some real world experiance instead of what you see on TV then possibly you will be qualified to discuss this subject, until then you are only exposing your lack of knowledge

[Geof]

...........If I ran this forum anyone helping to ship parts over seas would be banned from posting ,after all this is supposed to be an American site correct?

That was a nice rant.

Have you ever looked into how dependent US heavy manufacturing is dependent on exports, and how dependent the US is for imports of raw materials?

And why blame a manufacturer for wanting to make things cheaper? Nobody puts a gun to the customer's head forcing them to buy cheap low quality imports instead of more expensive quality made domestic products.

[inflateable]

I am talking from experience, believe it or not. I'm British, but I work for an american company, and we're taking work AWAY from chinese companies. We're taking work home from Indian companies. We even SUPPLY chinese companies.

How? We're faster, leaner, more accurate, have 100% customer service, zero scrap rate (<10ppm), zero customer returns. and in the long run, we're cheaper. Companies we supply go to Chinese companies, and six months later they're back. Why? Because we're better on all counts. We had a 20million dollar profit last year with 200people working here.
i.e. We compete.

I understand completley your point of view, honestly. We support local job shops as much as we can here, with tool and die work. But you can't buck the market, and you can't force people to buy from you. This is the reality, and you have to deal with it. If you can't compete, with respect, it's time to sell up.

[dertsap]

you can start to spout free trade.It is not free trade when you are being flooded with cheap products subsidised by a foreign government, that used to be illegal in this country. It is not free trade when they are allowed to export food, drugs and of all things kids toys that are killing people in this country. It is not free trade when they are not held to the same standards we are in environmental issues in basic human rights issues. How can you possibly defend this so called free trade how can you even call it free trade, do you even know what that means

sounds like free trade to me
also sounds like capitalism !
you can blame the chinese people all you want but it is American companies who are moving their operations to china ,so who's at fault ?
it amazes me how much anger and hatred gets directed at china when all they are doing is working to make their lives better and hope maybe their children have the same benefits ours did or do !

do you honestly beleave they should say no to the flood of work pouring into their country from yours , would you if the tables were turned ?

noone takes responsibility for anything anymore, everything is everyone elses fault !!!!

[PinMan]

pin man as an owner of a machine shop for 23 years and with 35 years of experience

So you started working in a machine shop when you were 11? Considering your profile states you are 46. Does your animosity towards China derive from your childhood?

Were you slave child labor? lol

[Oldmanandhistoy]

So you started working in a machine shop when you were 11? Considering your profile states you are 46. Does your animosity towards China derive from your childhood?

Were you slave child labor? lol

PMSL thanks

[joesz]

Yes it is the American companies I thought you understood that ,it is also our government that allows it to happen. you are off base I have no problems with the people of China I do have a problem with their government,our government for allowing it to happen and the large corporations exploiting the population. If they are such great people and helping the people of China then why do they pay wages that will not support a family. Do not beleive everything you see on TV the reality is far from what they are showing you. I have personally talked to people that have been there. They are not helping the people they exploiting the cheap labor. And since the people of China are starting to wake up, guess what the corporations are pulling out and moving to India and South Africa where they can exploit those people until they wise up. There is no one gaining anything from this except the large corporations, it is not free trade you need to open your eyes it is far from free trade. It is corporate and government corruption and greed and that is all it is. It is only a matter of time before you lose your job over this or someone you know loses their job so if you are ok with being unemployed or having a family member unemployed so that the CEO of some large corporation can pocket another million in salary then there is no point in arguing. I said I was not going to post again but I can not let this go unchallenged. Some of you just do not have a clue about what the reality of the situation is and you should not be so quick to make comments about something of which your only knowledge comes from the television. What you believe and what is real are far from the same thing, trust me on that and in time you are going to see the proof of it when the economy of this country collapses. It is already well on it's way to collapse I suggest you open your eyes and look at the alternative opinions on this before it is too late do no be blindly led by the mainstream media and do not trust the government they are all liars and crooks and some of them are getting very rich off this while your neighbor looses his house because he lost his job to China and can not make the mortgage payments. If you defend this kind of behavior you are as bad as they are, I suspect however you are just brainwashed by the media and do not understand the real truth and I guess I can not fault you entirely for that.

[joesz]

And for you math whizzes I started running machines at home when I was 10 years old dad had a machine shop in our house so again you open your mouths prior to engaging your brain. If you would read my post you would know it is not China I have the problem with but since you can not be bothered to read and comprehend what I say this has become pointless

[dertsap]

why do they pay wages that will not support a family.
Do not beleive everything you see on TV the reality is far from what they are showing you..
There is no one gaining anything from this except the large corporations


it is not free trade you need to open your eyes it is far from free trade. It is corporate and government corruption and greed and that is all it is. It is only a matter of time before you lose your job over this .

i agree %100 not to believe what propaganda is pushed on me

the peoples lives are far better than they were , ive worked with a number of gentlemen from china who were able to move back to their home and start a bussiness because the people are seeing the benefits of a better economy ,not just the military



as far as free trade goes dont even get me started on this one ,I'D LOST A JOB because of BS free trade between your country and mine when your government ripped us off for millions in illegal wood terriffs ,
i lost another good job after that because they packed up to move to the US for cheaper manufacturing costs
do i hold any ill will toward your people ,no ! trigger happy Bush ,ya !

i learned at a young age what its like to live in a bad economy and i don t forget what it feels like to be hungry .
the difference learning at a young age is , i know i am responsible for my future , noone else
it seems too many (not suggesting you ) people want to pass blame for their short comings

[PinMan]

so again you open your mouths prior to engaging your brain.

I didnt have my mouth open when I typed that :withstupi

The whole point of all of this is the man simply asked a question about manufacturing processes and you had to flood the thread with your nonscense. You tell us not to believe the propaganda... but that is exactly what you are doing. Using an incorrect venue to invoke your literary vomit.

Go find a politics forum and leave this one to people who want to talk about machining.

and btw, thought you werent going to post anymore?

[ironDigit]

i always thaught that this kinda part is most easily made on a presureinjectionmolding thing wich uses pressure to make the molten material reach all parts of the part .this makes it possible to cast more detailed parts to tighter tol. and better finish.