[ezpcb.com]

Hello all
I'm just browsing around here. I'm not a machinist, my business is online electronics manufacturing. I have more than one thousands of customers in US and Europe, they like our service very much because we can provide very good quality products at the most competitive price.

I'm in a very large manufacturing base, there're more than 200 5-axis high precision CNC around our company (no more than 2km), not to mention other machines. Most of the machines runs less than 8 hours per day.

An idea has just came into my head: If I design a website that enables you to uploading CAD files, then manufacture the parts with those machines, send to you by UPS or Fedex. Will you be interestred in this kind of services?

My advantages are:
1. low cost. Made in China, direct sent to customers
2. reliable quality. I don't know how to maufacture it, but I know how to control the quality
3. fast. delivery in days or even hours, not weeks
4. many options. turning, milling, drilling, baring, laser, plasma, grinding, gear cutting, SLA, plastic injection...almost everything you need
5. no quantity requirments. 1 pcs to 1m pcs are OK

disadvantages are:
1. higher shipping cost: international shipping
2. bad reputation: made in china
3. lack of very high-end manufacturing, such as aero-space parts..

what's your thought?any suggestion are highly appriciated.

BR

Mike

[mungsta]

Hi Mike,

You are right in one respect about bad rep, with being made in china, and i agree. Cheap copies of good product is China's specialty and I believe that Australia should ban most imports of this crap. we need to stop this disposable attitude from buying cheap crap many times to buying good gear once. A rich man in sense does this a poor man the other.



Mungsta

[ezpcb.com]

Hi Mungsta,

I agree that bad rep is the biggest problem that I have to face. China has many good products and also bad products. I think why I'm very succesful in my current business is I know how to choose good factories and products. We make products for Jet Propulsion Lab, Renault F1 team, Siemens and many other big companies.

I also have many customers in Australia. They are very happy with my services--maybe they have to. They have no where to buy those good products at that price :-):rainfro:

Don't forget the premise of my idea: good quality is guaranteed. I know people wish to pay more $ for good quality, that's why I'm driving a Range Rover. But if there's a similar Range Rover sell at $10,000, why pay $100,000 to buy the other?

BR

Mike

[joesz]

Another person helping to destroy the economy and eliminate more American jobs.No not only would I not use it I would warn every single person I know not to use it. American manufacturers do not want to help you give our jobs away.
We should ban every single thing coming from COMMUNIST china and anyone that does try to import goods from there should be deported there.
If Americans do not start to wake up this country which is already in trouble is going to go down the toilet. The damn government needs to mind it own buisness and stay the hell out of other countries affairs, do that and they will leave us alone, the terrorist thing is a bunch of horse crap. Until there is not a single homeless person or person that has no health care or hungry person on our streets not a single dollar in aid should be leaving this country. Until we have 100% employment anyone that helps jobs leave this country should be tried for treason and put behind bars.
You people that exploit the third world countries at the expense of your fellow citizens jobs just to line your pockets are bottom feeders. Go get a real job or go live in one of the third world countries you are exploiting ,you sicken me keep your cheap chineese garbage where it belongs, in the country that made it.

[ezpcb.com]

Good...scared people always make me even more confident.

I saw more people like Jozes when I start my electronics manufacturing business 2 years before. They also said they won't use my service and will told everyone not to use it. But 2 years later some of them becomes my partner. I agree that I take some jobs away, but I creat more jobs because many companies becomes more competitive by our service.

A bussiness can be successful is not because nobody dislike it. It's because there're more people like it than that dislike it.

You'll see our ad on the magazines in a very short time. You'll also enjoy our great service in a short time.

BR
Mike

[mungsta]

China is a joke full stop.


Mungsta

[joesz]

A little tip for you Mike I am already seeing American manufacturers pull jobs back from China for several reasons. First of all they make is garbage second they are frauds substituting substandard materials. Third they can not hold delivery dates and forth they use materials harmful to other human beings without reguard to their safety. No mike you are on the way out buddy it is just the way it is . And as for me every using a company like yours it would be a cold day in hell.
If you think American manufacturing companies are just sitting around taking it you are again miss informed. 90% of manufacturing in this country is by small buisness and we also employ 90% of the population. We do have power as a group and we are doing something to eliminate companies like the one you propose .Don't count your gold yet Mike I don't think you are going to be any where near as sucessful as you think you are. Bye the way MIKE what country are you from??? if you don't mind revealing that of course

[ezpcb.com]

Thanks for your tips Joesz. the more criticism the better.

I'm in China, the biggest craps manufacturer in the world or whatever you think.

you are right, many US companies left China, but most of them didn't go home. They went to other countries like Indian and Vietnam. As a result, Those low-end manufacturing plants are dying, but good factoies are still alive. This definetly hlep me much easier to control the quality.

I said in my first post, people met frauds because they don't have a good understanding in Chinese market, that's why my company existing. Who knows it's a good or bad idea without a trial? Whatever the difficulties you metioned, I'll go ahead.

Another reason make me go ahead is this business mode is already started in custom made cutting tooling manufacturing. We can't advertise too much because the requirments are much more than we expected. more reliable factories must be found before we can take all orders.

BR
Mike

[joesz]

Let me clarify something here while I am at it, it is not the general population of Chia I have a problem with it is the crooked government and the large corporations bothe there and here that are causing this problem. Mike your goverment are murderers just like ours is.They are responsible for hundreds of deaths in this country for allowing poison food poison drugs and of all things poison toys we let our children play with to come into this country. By the way I did not notice the upper corner of your post where it says you are from China, Mike huh nice solid chinese name wonder why you changed it. Mike anyone that puts public safety in front of profits should be executed they are murderers, how do you sleep at night knowing you are killing innocent children with your poison products. Mike would you give your child a toy full of lead paint to play with? Would you give your child a medication that is so full of contminents it could kill them?
Your government has no problem with that, the large corporations both in China and the USA have no problem with it. It is greed Mike and if you go along with it you are as bad as they are, if killing people so you can put a few yen in your pocket is ok with you then you are in the same catagory as they are buddy, a low life and a murderer.
Your government is on the top of the list as being corrupt and willing to sacrifice lives for their ass backward belifes . The olympics is a good example what a scam they put on to try to look good in front of the world while behind the scenes they are willing to ignore basic human rights. The government of China is a joke Mike and a bad one at that.
I am not saying the American government is much better they are in bed with your fellow crooked government officials but do not make the mistake of thinking the American population is behind them and the American population are for the most part good people just as I am quite sure the majority of the people of China are we will not tolerate this for ever.

[ezpcb.com]

are we discuss online machining business? I'm not politician, not interested in it at all.
I lived in China for more than 30 years, and lived in US for 4 years. When I was a little boy our newpapers said capitalism is eating people. Now your newspaper is doing the samething after 30 years, what a joke.
I don't want to say anything off topic. My topic is machining(wrong)

[joesz]

Mike forget the quality issue you can not supply quality goods from China. I have been in manufacturing for over 20 years I have direct experiance with goods from China. Fraud is fraud Mike it has nothing to do with an understanding of anything. I have seen large companies in China substitute substandard material in order to increase profits I have see deliberate attempts to ship products that come no where near meeting the specs required.
Yes the large corporations have gone to other countries you know why Mike because your population has opened their eyes and seen they were being exploited, they want to be paid for the job they do and the large corporations dont want to pay them so they will go exploit other countries. China's ride to economic success is over Mike they are no longer competitive in the world market. Since your government allowed this to take place why don't you go ask them what they have planned for you next, wait you are not allowed to question them they might run you over with a tank.
Mike instead of being part of the problem why don't you dome something to help your fellow country men and women. Why don't you start a company that pays a living wage that does not commit fraud and that does not murder innocent children

[joesz]

Yes our media is controlled by large corporations you can not beleive a word they say your culture is also controlled by the media and government propaganda does that make it right to participate in what is going on.
Does buisness come first over human lives Mike, does making a few bucks mean at any cost to you? do you care that your neighbor may be a near slave in one of those factories you speak about? this is a human rights problem created by your government our government and large corporations in both countries.
You can not defend this kind of activity no way no how it is sickening, too bad the people of China are so repressed that they can do nothing about the government, I am afraid we are in the same boat over here now as well

[ezpcb.com]

go on your words joesz, it's really interesting. I have many customers and friends in US, but you are really unique:rainfro:

[tenmetalman]

Hay, You,Al,
Your getting really close to flaming ! We really don't need it. People will try the available manufacturing in China or not..................... I think the China quality issue will resolve itself, by itself through greed, positive learning in response to customer complaints, etc. Along with the various quality problems, customers around the world & USA are finding that products manufactured in their own countries have advantages after ALL
Enough said
Paul

[dbohemian]

Mungsta and Joesz. It has been a while since I have seen a reply filled with such venom and ignorance as these.

Ezpcb.com. There are companies that do what you speak of. Most notably is emachineshop.com

I have had acquaintances order from emachineshop.com and been very happy with the services they offer. I think some things you may look at with them is that they have a great website and a fantastic CAD program/interface that allows even the average Joe to draw a part and then order it. Also, you mentioned that you have NC mill capabilities. Others have full machine shop capabilities that run from sheet metal services, to lathe, and rapid prototyping. You may or may not (I don't know) have the breadth of capabilities that they do. I would think that building a great, easy to navigate web site, specialized CAD software and then handle the organizational end of dealing with many small orders when you probably are dealing with very large orders may be a lot more difficult than it initially seems.

Hope it works out for you. The reality for me is that if you provide a quality service, this will work for you. The market works itself out. If you goods and services are less than people had hoped for, they just eventually won't order from you anymore.

All the best

[sleeper142]

Its quite simple really. China is an opportunistic economy. Their cost of living is cheaper than any non 3rd world economy. This is the only reason they can offer such cheap products.

I personally will never choose to support a 3rd world slave labor economy, because it just isn't fair to the rest of the world, that has higher cost of living, and produces quality work.

I don't particularly care what guarantee or promise you offer of 'quality' work, it won't be met, it's really that simple, you cannot ignore the facts of the reputation of their work. America is hopefully starting to learn that you cannot get things good, cheap, and fast. Whores will always whore them selves out to get the business, but they will rarely do what it takes to keep the business.

dbohemian you are right, if you provide a quality service start to finish, your customers will come back. Quality usually ends up costing money.
As the chineese learn that their work ethic is scaring customers off, they too may change their tune. However, I guarantee that the Chinese over time will start raising their prices just like non 3rd world economies have to do.

I have no problem supporting countries that do not operate on a slave labor based economy, Japanese machine tool, Italian made saw, American made cutters... whatever. Please don't get me wrong, I don't hate the Chinese as a people, they are merely opportunistic as anyone else would be. Its really the foreign trade policies that should be scrutinized a bit closer.

As for you ezpcb.com... I wouldn't dream of coming on a public board and posting about something like this. Pretty vain if you ask me. If you are so confident in the success of your 'idea' go ****ing do it, don't waste our time asking us about if we think it would be successful. I wouldn't expect you to get a positive response from many people on a forum like this, as we will represent most of your American based competition. Good luck, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

[ezpcb.com]

Hi dbohemian

Forget those unfriendly words. I don't care. Too much of those words since the beginning of 2008.

thank you for your good suggestion. An 3000 years old Chinese book "the art of war" said "you can't win without knowing each other". I have learned many online machining service providers,include emachineshop. I analysed their advantages and disadvangates. I'm pretty sure I can do what they can, and I can solve many problem they are facing.

If you have parts to be machined, let me try

BR

Mike

[dbohemian]

It is this kind of rhetoric that has caused the US to be less competitive than it should be.

America is an opportunistic economy. We have made almost all our wealth taking advantage of a situation where we can reap large profits off the backs of others, usually for that matter our own people. Think drug companies, big oil etc. BTW, this is the American way. I don't have a big problem with it. If you want to live in your own world, then by all means, go ahead.

China is not a slave labor economy. Generalized statements such as this just show the ignorance of the poster.

China will produce at any quality you wish. It is the end user who usually specifies a less expensive product. We can go back and forth all day on this but I think Ezpcb had every right to post a question. Same as any of you and this feedback is less than flattering. Choose to do what you will but he has the right to try and make a profit as anyone else does. You have the right not to purchase his products.

[joesz]

Mike not as unique as you may think Americans over all are fed up congress has a 9% approval rating last I heard the clown we have as a president has a less than 20% approval rating. We as a population stand up for basic human rights we do not ignore them nor do we want to take any part in helping that to take place. We are good people just like the people of China we do not have control over our government anymore than you do, they are owned by multinational corporations and those corporations along with the help of your government and ours are destroying peoples lives, it is wrong and it has to stop.
Exploitation of human beings regardless of what country they are from is wrong there is no excuse for it, particularly not a monetary one.
I will not ill will toward the general population of China in fact I would make an offer to them to join a world wide faction of people from other countries to stand up to the corrupt governments of the world and the large corporations because only if the people unite and I mean the regular every day person working to support their family will we have any hope of fixing things, remember we outnumber the government vastly. I personally would have boycotted the olymipcs and in my small way I have I refuse to watch it, all we are doing is lending credibility to a horribly corrupt and criminal government. This has to stop we can not allow the people of the world to become slaves to governments and large corporations it is the people of the world that must come first

[sleeper142]

It is this kind of rhetoric that has caused the US to be less competitive than it should be.

America is an opportunistic economy. We have made almost all our wealth taking advantage of a situation where we can reap large profits off the backs of others, usually for that matter our own people. Think drug companies, big oil etc. BTW, this is the American way. I don't have a big problem with it. If you want to live in your own world, then by all means, go ahead.

China is not a slave labor economy. Generalized statements such as this just show the ignorance of the poster.

China will produce at any quality you wish. It is the end user who usually specifies a less expensive product. We can go back and forth all day on this but I think Ezpcb had every right to post a question. Same as any of you and this feedback is less than flattering. Choose to do what you will but he has the right to try and make a profit as anyone else does. You have the right not to purchase his products.

Yes of course he has a right to do this. That I did not dispute.

I also never said that America is a perfect economy in any way shape or form. I personally feel that America has gotten lazy lately. We place no emphasis on manufacturing, engeineering, or manufacturing in education.

Everyone is going to be opportunistic, but to what degree, and in what respect. Yes big corporations can reap large profits from their own customers. This sucks, I am not a fan of it. But this was not what I was referring to. Nor did you read my post closely enough to realize that I am not criticizing china for being opportunistic. Yes they are, but... that is not why we are / were losing many manufacturing jobs to China. However having a place like china as an option to manufacture in, does make it quite difficult for American manufacturers to stay alive.

It blows my mind how many mailers I get for industrial auctions of companies that are going out of business on a daily basis.