[trubleshtr]

Hi anyone here done a water conversion to their car?
I am looking for feedback good/bad....
There are many people selling kits to add in an HHO system on top of a gas system...just wondering if they really work....

[blackbeard52]

I googled that setup a while back and found it to be a scam....years back The Mother Earth News rag did a water injection to gas setup that represented 100 miles per gallon in a cadillac......... but it was a DIY setup....I think you could still look it up on their site.

Bob

[trubleshtr]

Hi Black beard, It does sound too good to be true and you know what they say about that....but the concept of burning hydrogen seems plausible,
I looked on youtube and came across a couple of people building and running these DIY systems, also looks a little scarey to think if they get it wrong they potentially have a hydrogen bomb under the hood of their car.
I was hoping someone here at cnc zone with a little more technical knowledge may have tempted it? and would have more "measured" scientific results...rather than some "Joe" in his garage......

It still has my interest...so I'll do some more digging around.

[blackbeard52]

yeah... I did some research and it costs more energy to produce the hydrogen that it does to burn gas at whatever price it is. Then there is the volatile nature of hydrogen under pressure. there is a thread here on the zone about it...just have to find it....ahh here it is http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59787

[Micro_CNC]

They did this on mythbusters, the only ones that worked were the ones that worked with the gasoline as opposed to replacing it. they get a very slight increase in MPG for a huge amount of work.

Then they tried it off a tank of hydrogen and it ran beautifully. sans a backfire or 2.

not too long ago i made an rc airplane engine run off of hydrogen, for about an hour of waiting you got about a minute of runtime with my primitive hydrogen/oxygen maker. put 2 balls of tinfoil on the ends of 2 wires connected to 12V and submerse them you get oxygen off one and hydrogen off the other then compress it. Prob not worth it in a full size vehicle but it nonetheless does work.

[bgraham111]

Takes energy to break the H20 into hydrogen and oxygen. Gotta get the energy from someplace... It's the law. May improve MPG but energy usage still goes up.

[itowbig]

you can obtain the power needed from the autos alternator's (note two or more) & or power inverters.

[bgraham111]

you can obtain the power needed from the autos alternator's (note two or more) & or power inverters.

And what turns the alternators?

I already know the answer. The car's engine does.

[Khalid]

Basically its all about the efficient cell design... especially the material of the electrodes and thickness and no.of plates and theier sizing are very crucial..I literally saw my friends Car, where he installed the cell he designed himself..putting out 11 liters/minute with only 24Volts and 20 amperes..

Its not a scam at all...But such cells are difficult to produce...One thing more, Hydrogen has a loud explosion, so many countries do not promote such things... the same true with Oil companies..

[bgraham111]

I know you can break H20 into hydrogen and water.
I know you can do it from a car.
I know it can burn.

But the efficiency is less. You still need energy to produce the hydrogen.

You can either do:
Chemical energy (gasoline) -> Heat energy (combustion) -> Mechanical energy (pistons and then wheels)

Or you can do"
Chemical energy (gasoline) -> Heat energy (combustion) -> Mechanical energy (pistons) -> Electrical energy (alternator) -> Chemical energy (H2 from water) -> Heat energy (Burn H2) -> mechanical energy (pistons and then wheels)

Each "->" is a transfer of energy, and thus a loss of energy, as we all know from thermodynamics. So why bother doing the extra steps.

Now what about the tests, and the examples.... What made the hydrogen? What charged the batteries? If you can't trace the energy back to the source, then you don't know what's powering the device.

Spend your money on it if you want. But basic physics doesn't lie that often.

[Geof]

....Spend your money on it if you want. But basic physics doesn't lie that often.

Physics never lies.

The people who promote these ideas are either woefully misinformed or are shysters.

[itowbig]

i bet you all work for or with these car & oil co. it has been done will be done.

[Khalid]

It seems scam for those newbie who worked on a cell and having bad experience... Now tell me one thing!!! What is Atomic Bomb, Hydrogen bomb??...

Do they require more energy to explode as compare to its output energy?????... Its just a science... You can resonate the water molecule through a special frequency... for this you not need to boil the water !!!.. Just a frequency impulses and u can get a lot out of small amopunt of water...

Water is power..we all created from it...it has tremendous amount of energy..we have just need a way to get this energy in economical way...

My .02 cents with .8% inflation

[Khalid]

Before the invention of Lever/chain blocks..if somewere to ask to left 3000Kg weight!!!! He would declare you a mad person... Now the same thing make our life much easier..u can left 1000 of Kg weight with tiny hydraulic jack

U have to explore the things.. and when someone discover amazing thing , he was always declared mad or magician

[bgraham111]

Well, I hope you are right. Maybe you should go invest your life savings into the technology. I'm sure you'll make millions. Heck, I bet you might even get some politicians to fund you.

Me - I only work on things that don't violate the laws of physics. (Please remember - I'm not saying that it won't work. In fact, I know it will work, as in burn, combust, and turn the engine. But is it worth it, thermodynamically.)

[bgraham111]

Before the invention of Lever/chain blocks..if somewere to ask to left 3000Kg weight!!!! He would declare you a mad person... Now the same thing make our life much easier..u can left 1000 of Kg weight with tiny hydraulic jack

U have to explore the things.. and when someone discover amazing thing , he was always declared mad or magician

That's actually why I said "physics doesn't lie that often". Our understanding of physics is very basic. We don't understand everything, nor will we understand everything. That's why we build things like the LHC, to improve our understanding. With that said, our understanding of the laws of energy conservation are pretty good.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this. I won't be spending any time on this product, however.

By the way - did you know that a 20 year old truck is better for the environment that a brand new Prius hybrid electric? Figure out why.

[Fixittt]

That's actually why I said "physics doesn't lie that often". Our understanding of physics is very basic. We don't understand everything, nor will we understand everything. That's why we build things like the LHC, to improve our understanding. With that said, our understanding of the laws of energy conservation are pretty good.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this. I won't be spending any time on this product, however.

By the way - did you know that a 20 year old truck is better for the environment that a brand new Prius hybrid electric? Figure out why.

I know why this is.... all you have to do is look at the factory's where the parts are made. Look up the environmental impacts of just running the factories. Especially where the batteries are made. There is a reason there is no vegetative growth anywhere near the battery factory

[Geof]

Before the invention of Lever/chain blocks..if somewere to ask to left 3000Kg weight!!!! He would declare you a mad person... Now the same thing make our life much easier..u can left 1000 of Kg weight with tiny hydraulic jack...

Quite correct and this is a perfect example of using the same amount of energy a different way. A lever or a chain block or a hydraulic jack does not increase the amount of energy you use the lift the 3000kg it simply allows you to apply the energy progressively in small amounts. In fact inefficiency in the mechanisms of all three mean that you have to apply more total energy than would be the case if you had the ability to lift the 3000kg in a single step.

The water being electrolysed to hydrogen and then burnt in the engine is somewhat similar. The total amount of energy involved is the same because the ultimate source of the energy is the gasoline but some of this total is wasted through inefficiencies in the process of electrolysis. You might be able to convince yourself it works but you should compare it with just tuning up the engine and keeping it in tune. Nearly all these gimmicks require you to do an engine tune up when they are installed so very often an improvement is seen; as a result of the tune up not the gimmick.

[bgraham111]

Quite correct and this is a perfect example of using the same amount of energy a different way. A lever or a chain block or a hydraulic jack does not increase the amount of energy you use the lift the 3000kg it simply allows you to apply the energy progressively in small amounts. In fact inefficiency in the mechanisms of all three mean that you have to apply more total energy than would be the case if you had the ability to lift the 3000kg in a single step.

Excellent! This is an perfect example of engineering improvements, not physics improvements. Awesome Geof!

If you told me that there was a new oil, or a new machining process that made the pistons slide with less friction, or something - I'd listen. But you are trying to break the laws of physics.

[Khalid]

Now if u said the laws of physics can not be change... you will never think out-of-the box.... As the times proceed, we see a lot of development in physics and each day we explore new things...

U will see a lot of modification carried out in those laws since 200 years ago... Some laws are totally busted due to advancment in sceience...

Now tell me... You have seen the Hydrogen torch on youtube that burns 3000C....Thoses works on Hydrolysis principle by putting little amount of energy and getting Higher amount of thermal energy... How??? can u generate this torch simply with the help of 15amp 20volts?????