[acondit]

Do you think you'll need a spacer in the head in order to put its zero back in the center of the envelope using this method like Hoss did (though not nearly as thick, obviously)? It seems as though you'd need that in order to get to the front of any piece (with you standing looking at the machine with the Y stepper facing out) you try to machine using this mod...

Curious, and looking forward to the end results of the mod...

-Farasien

If you want to move the head back to the center of the Y movement envelope, it seems to me that you would need a spacer between the "spindle box" and the "spindle box seat". Since I moved the column back approximately 1.25", I thought that I needed to add a 0.625" spacer to re-center my spindle in the Y-axis travel envelope. I suspended a 1/4" rod down from the center of the spindle and moved the table through its travel and that seems to be about right. I haven't figured the exact measurements out for sure yet, because I also increased the travel by almost 0.500" at the front end of the Y movement.

What I am going to try is to move the table to the center of Y travel and put a small rod in a collet and try to measure the distance horizontally between the center of the rod and the center of the table in the Y direction.

Alan

[X2cnc]

Dang, I didn't even think about the head being moved back.

Now I have to decide whether to make a simple spacer plate, or make a swivel head setup that would clear the toolchanger...

My 1.25" longer ballscrew came in from CNCFusion a few weeks ago, for $57 to my mailbox.

[cyclestart]

My 1.25" longer ballscrew came in from CNCFusion a few weeks ago, for $57 to my mailbox.

Mine cost a bit more than that. $137CDN when all was said and done or $102 in US funds. Extra shipping costs to Canada are partly to blame and beyond cncfusion's control. This included a new preloaded ballnut. A big thank you to Michael for cutting some slack on the usual preload fee. :cheers: (the fact that I had paid the preload fees for the existing screws was a factor here)

As far as spacing out the spindle, I'm going to play the devil's advocate. Note this regards only the rearward extension and not how it effects other travel mods, tool changers, etc.

The T-slots on the X2 table are only ~2.2" center-to-center, in other words next to useless for most of my work. A table this narrow is mostly a place to bolt the the real work holding device, vise, tooling plate, fixture, whatever. 5/8" off the table center isn't going to worry me very much at this point. I reserve the right to alter this opinion after completing the modification of course

On the topic of vises, there is a possible annoyance with this mod. I currently raise the vise enough to clear the column mount. This allows the vise to be mounted further to the rear of the table. Using a planned 1" column spacer plate, the vise will need to be raised further. Goodbye 1" extra z clearance when using the Kurt style vise.

[X2cnc]

I just hate it when people go all logical on me...

I'll leave the head alone and move on to the tooling plate.

[Stepper Monkey]

Since I moved the column back approximately 1.25", I thought that I needed to add a 0.625" spacer to re-center my spindle in the Y-axis travel envelope.

Actually, if you move the column back 1.25", you need to move the head forward 1.25". All you are doing is giving the machine more "throat", but you need to match the full distance, not half of it!

Running a little bit off of dovetails isn't a big deal at all, so don't worry about it.
Bigger issue is the huge drop in rigidity, which is one of the few things the X2 had going for it in the first place. Calculating beam defection and vibration for a cantilever like the X2 headstock is not a trivial chunk of math, but it is going to drop dramatically - it is NOT a linear affair. In oversimplified terms it is going to degrade in about a cube to the distance.

Roughly speaking, an extension of 1.25" will drop the machine to just under 40% of the rigidity it had stock. Sherline territory.
This will increase its capacity, but will kill much of its capability. There is no free lunch, there is a reason those machines had such a small Y travel designed into them. There is also a reason they designed the X3.

I understand that one person incapable of admitting to mistakes once got a hold of an X2, and rather than deciding it was a mistake, admitting it, biting the bullet, and getting the machine he really needed, he spent the rest of his life on a quest to justify that decision. Even if it cost more, took longer, and performed worse than the correct option like the X3. Even if it required turning a simple tool into a moral and class warfare crusade.
I understand the destructive power of what one mans blind pride can do, but you don't all necessarily need to follow it. Train wrecks are best watched from a distance.
Some people can be an example to follow, some can simply be an example of what not to try. The X2 community needs to remember the second a bit more sometimes.

[hoss2006]

Since I moved the column back approximately 1.25", I thought that I needed to add a 0.625" spacer to re-center my spindle in the Y-axis travel envelope.

Actually, if you move the column back 1.25", you need to move the head forward 1.25". All you are doing is giving the machine more "throat", but you need to match the full distance, not half of it!

Running a little bit off of dovetails isn't a big deal at all, so don't worry about it.
Bigger issue is the huge drop in rigidity, which is one of the few things the X2 had going for it in the first place. Calculating beam defection and vibration for a cantilever like the X2 headstock is not a trivial chunk of math, but it is going to drop dramatically - it is NOT a linear affair. In oversimplified terms it is going to degrade in about a cube to the distance.

Roughly speaking, an extension of 1.25" will drop the machine to just under 40% of the rigidity it had stock. Sherline territory.
This will increase its capacity, but will kill much of its capability. There is no free lunch, there is a reason those machines had such a small Y travel designed into them. There is also a reason they designed the X3.

I understand that one person incapable of admitting to mistakes once got a hold of an X2, and rather than deciding it was a mistake, admitting it, biting the bullet, and getting the machine he really needed, he spent the rest of his life on a quest to justify that decision. Even if it cost more, took longer, and performed worse than the correct option like the X3. Even if it required turning a simple tool into a moral and class warfare crusade.
I understand the destructive power of what one mans blind pride can do, but you don't all necessarily need to follow it. Train wrecks are best watched from a distance.
Some people can be an example to follow, some can simply be an example of what not to try. The X2 community needs to remember the second a bit more sometimes.

Now who might this troll be talking about?
Lets see any of your designs and projects. Have any????
You've never posted not a single thing.
Lets see and X3 with 18 x 12 inches of travel.
I didn't spend a lot of money, I used SKILL to achieve the results.
There you go trying to make an argument about why something DOESN'T work
when you actually have NO clue, Mach 3 backlash comp ring a bell?
I have 6 1/2 inches of extension and you can actually SEE that rigidity is not a problem.
Watch the videos, even before flood coolant then eat some crow.
Lets see a Sherline or a Taig come ANYWHERE near what it can mill.
Climb back in your hole TROLL and take your jealous anti-hoss X2 crusade with you!
You're a pathetic little boy.
Hoss

[Oldboy]

HI Hoss.
Seems to me that some people might have forgot that we do the mods for fun. My little mill/lathe project im working on you can't buy one.
Part of my project is extending out my X2 mill spindle head 3 inches. That should get a rise out of some. Will it be weaker than the shorter spindle head. Yes. Will it be strong enough for what i intend for it Yes.
Is the project fun Yes. Do i follow Hoss ideas? No
But i do enjoy watching his videos. Its clear he enjoys his hobby.
And if i can help anyone out with info. Well thats what this form is about.
So if anyone is extending the mill bed. You have to extend the spindle head so that your mill cutter is center with the mill table travel. Its a no brainer.
As for "Sherline territory"? I have used a Sherline for over 10 years.
A mod X2 is alot better than a stock Sherline mill. I can't understand how anyone could compare the two.
Merry X Mass to all.

[sansbury]

Good lord, "class warfare?" We're talking about grown-up boys' toys here.

Hoss has a strong opinion. I don't always agree with it, but I have a CNC X2 made from plans he posted on his website for free. Few people have put as much value out there at no charge as he has.

A base X3 costs at least $400 more than an X2, and the conversion is slightly more expensive, depending on how you go about it. So there's a minimum $500-$600 price gap, which is significant for a lot of folks. It might be a little silly to buy a brand-new full-price X2 with the idea to do all the mods, but if you already own the X2 it makes good sense.

I'd love to see Hoss's rig run some more parts. Now that you've got that large ATC you're going to start running out of mods

[hoss2006]

I'd love to see Hoss's rig run some more parts. Now that you've got that large ATC you're going to start running out of mods

Don't know what sets some people off, probably alcohol.
Friends don't let friends type drunk!
It's been the "freak" for 16 months now, I've used it for milling the parts for all
the projects since including the 16T ATC as well as many customer parts.
I don't post videos for that boring stuff. I shot video for a lot of the 16T ATC parts
but that's just to include them in the DVD.
Just like the other DVD's contain video shot during construction of the projects.
Pretty dull but helpful otherwise.
Hoss

[acondit]

Hoss,

I didn't duplicate your rotating ballnut for my z-axis, but yours was definitely the inspiration. I had purchased the Stirling Steele plans and just was not happy with them, when I saw yours I said, "now that looks solid".

Alan

[hoss2006]

Hoss,

I didn't duplicate your rotating ballnut for my z-axis, but yours was definitely the inspiration. I had purchased the Stirling Steele plans and just was not happy with them, when I saw yours I said, "now that looks solid".

Alan

That's funny, I got my inspiration from a pic I saw on a yahoo forum which
I later found out was a Steele converted mill.
Did my "design" from that pic as best I could see.
I saw probably the same Y axis extension mod you did on there too
but didn't have a 2nd mill to tackle it.
Nice work!
It's nice that the majority of posters share their work to inspire others.
I've certainly gained a lot from them.
Hoss

[The Blight]

I was once thinking about mounting the whole collumn on the table of the mill to make room for the extended Y axis. This way I could use the mill to work on the mill. I wonder if this could have worked. Would probably need a pretty long endmill.

[hoss2006]

I was once thinking about mounting the whole collumn on the table of the mill to make room for the extended Y axis. This way I could use the mill to work on the mill. I wonder if this could have worked. Would probably need a pretty long endmill.

Good thinking!
This type might be long enough.

[The Blight]

That would probably work. An ER32 collet holder would reduce the length even more. Might be worth a try.

[cyclestart]

I was once thinking about mounting the whole collumn on the table of the mill to make room for the extended Y axis. This way I could use the mill to work on the mill. I wonder if this could have worked. Would probably need a pretty long endmill.

Or use an angle plate to mount the spindle instead of the column? Would be time consuming to adjust depth but a rigid method. Might have to build or modify an angle plate to get the proper bolt spacing. Hmmm... another project vs paying a local machine shop.