[weisyboy]

i am thinking of building a cnc router for cutting house name plates etc.

it ould need a cutting area of about 4' x 2'.

i dont have a clue about the electronics needed.

what do i need and how mutch am i looking at to buy the electronics and stepers and screws needed to make a cnc of this size?

[appicnc]

Hello Wiseboy

Since you only have a finished size in mind, the cost to you could be in the $500.00 to $5000.00 range.

Why the variance?? how much can you do yourself?, how much can you scavenge? how " good " do you want your machine to be? you mention house signs, if this is a business then do you want reliability and repeatability? if you do then you pays for what you get.

What software are you going to use? 2D lettering will be easy with any CAD program, you can use a CAD program right? if you are thinking anything fancy though then the cheapest software ( and possibly the best ) is the Vectric range, the recently released Aspire would be the way to go but at US$1995.00 or Au$3069.00 might cause you some sticker shock. They do have cheaper options but again, you gets what you pays for.

So now you are looking at somewhere around $8000.00.

You could look at a Mechmate machine, there is at least one in Oz, has a bed of around 3.0m by 1.3m, make it yourself, appears to be straight forward to build, not sure of cost but I think around US$6000.00ish ( Au$9300.00 )

Oh, I forgot the spindle, you can use a router but as you know they are a bit noisy, an ER20 collet spindle ( takes 1/2" bits ) water cooled, 0-20000rpm could set you back another Au$1200.00ish, best part is they are quiet, one thing that isn't often mentioned when speaking of spindles is the power supply, I have a 20amp circuit feeding mine, a 15amp will work but a 10amp won't ( not for long - the vfd trips ( or mine does ))

Questions???

Ed

[Jayson]

Hi Wiseboy,

there certainly is a Mechmate in Australia and I would totally recomend building one. The cost thus far, without electronics is around AU$4500. Motors and controllers would add about $4000 on top of that so about AU$8500 (good guess Ed). A smaller machine like you want to build would not be a whole lot cheaper if you built a Mechmate. Going larger (or smaller) does not change the price substantually. I would invite you to take a look at the Mechmate but it would be a long drive

Regards,

Jayson.

[nikbrewer]

i built a full 80/20 aluminium machine with 27" x 52" x 5" working area for about 3200$ US

[bkboggy]

I'll tell you this much. Even before you start looking at things and trying to build things, set a budget. Stick to it and don't go over no matter what (unless you're financially stable and flexible). Let's say your budget is $2,000 and you decide that things you want are more than that. Sit back and think, can you really afford more than your set budget? Do you really need what you want? "Want" and "need" are two different things and "need" should be your priority.

I am building Joe's '06 Machine and originally thought I'd spend around $1,500. Suprisingly enough, without controlling my price table I'm coming close to that but it will be more like $2,000 now. Didn't hurt me much, but I should have looked at my "need" a bit more.

Do I need the 48x24 cutting area? Yes.
Do I need a Hitachi 2.25 router spindle that I got? No. I would actually be fine with a dremel tool for now.
Do I need the precision of the ACME 5 start screws I got? I think so.
Will I use this machine for the kind of worked it's designed for? I hope so, otherwise I just wasted $2,000. But, of course, I will use it it to its full capacity. CNCs are a ton of fun from what I've seen and building one is just half the fun.

This is just an example of a checklist you can do.

Research this stuff and decide, what is it that you will use this machine for and then build up from there.

You can honestly build a beginner machine for under $800 or even way less:

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

Just watch all the videos (tabs on the left side). It will teach you a lot of about CNC construction.

Here's another website for cheap designs:

http://www.solsylva.com/

I've heared people are very happy with his designs and the book is very cheap. It contains the bill of materials, where to buy them, how to build the machine.

So, it can be anywhere from $600 (without software I believe) up to infinity. Up to you.

[weisyboy]

ok let me refaze the question and add a few more.

what do i have to buy to build it. say i had all the materials to build the main table and gantry.

things like leadscrews, stepers, elecronics is what id need.

if i built a 2 axis machine it would be easy to upgrade it to a 3 axis latter right?

for doing house names atc on a 2 axis machine what would i do between letters? do it manualy.

i am on acerage and run a sawmill so noise is no problem.

[weisyboy]

forgot to mention i have a couple of old computers here will parts form them be useable?

[appicnc]

Hello wise boy

Yes you could go down the 2 axis route, X & Y say, then you would have to stop and lift the router on every letter, move to the start of the next letter, get the machine to stop then lower the router by hand, sort of gets away from CNC a bit, or you could buy yourself a LASER, they only need 2 axis's and a switch to turn the beam on and off, I had a 25 watt CO2 laser a few years back, it to migh blow your budget, it was Au$10000.00 the $ was around where it is now so that price might be accurate. Better off going straight tto 3 axis's.

Whan you say you have the parts to make some ( frame ?? ) what design are you going to use? there has been some good suggestions to you already, the Mechmate is " doable " as are the Slosyla (sp????? ) designs, you need to do some reading as none of us can tell you what is best for you, this is basically a buildyourselfmachines group, you need to do some research yourself as you alone know what your needs and capabilities are ( and budget for that matter )

Ed

[CarveOne]

weisyboy,

No one here can give you a reasonably accurate cost estimate due to just having too many unknown variables to consider. You will need to determine for yourself which design you want to build, which parts you want to use, how many of each part you need to buy, where to get the parts, and whether you have the needed skills and machinery to build and operate one of these potentially dangerous machines. Please don't think that I'm getting on your case or being snobbish. Just explaining the facts.

A two axis cnc machine is not such a good idea in my opinion. If you can't commit to building a full three axis cnc machine then you would be better off buying or building a fully manual sign making pantograph instead. Trying to use a two axis cnc machine and manually moving the router height between letters would quickly end in utter frustration. The manual pantograph would actually save you considerable setup and cutting time. The three axis machine allows you to walk away from a cutting job (that may take hours to complete if there is any 2.5d carving) and do something else.

Many of the older computers just can't run the software that you will need to use for CNC operation. You should have a computer that (at a minimum) matches or exceeds what Mach3 and Vcarve Pro requires.

CarveOne

[appicnc]

Hello Wise boy

Like carve one we are happy to help but you need to ask the right question/s and do some work your self.

For example.

I have a used saw blade here, how much will it cost to build a saw mill, how long will it take to build the machine, I have some old motors will they work the machine too?

Ed

[weisyboy]

For example.

I have a used saw blade here, how much will it cost to build a saw mill, how long will it take to build the machine, I have some old motors will they work the machine too?

Ed

well if y gave me a size and what you wanna do then i cold tell you how mutch it will cost. but i understand what you are saying.

i like the buildyourcnc.com desighn but i asume as with most kits /sets you buy you can get the parts cheeper if buy them yourself.

so instead of a price what mecanical and electrical stuff would i need to buy to build a 3 axis cnc with a cutting area of about 4' x 2'.

say i can make the thng that you can push around by hand what do i need to make it move and do what i want.

[alien_X]

I think you need to do alot of searching and reading of these forums

Hello Wise boy
Like carve one we are happy to help but you need to ask the right question/s and do some work your self.

Hello wise boy
you need to do some reading as none of us can tell you what is best for you, this is basically a buildyourselfmachines group, you need to do some research yourself

Research this stuff and decide

[appicnc]

Hello Wise boy


If you are going to use it as an income producer then I would buy a kit, yes you will pay more but maybe not, what??? well " trade " has a different price to others, I bought some self aligning bearings recently that with holder and bearing ( and delivery ) cost me $6.00 each, last year I bought some locally through a bearing supplier and they were $20.00 each, so if your kit supplier used the $6.00 bearings how much would he charge for them I'm guessing around 10-12, still less than $20.00. Why would he do that, so you'll buy the kit, he still makes money.

I would think about the Y axis needing to be 600mm ( we are in a metric country ) most house signs I have seen are < 200mm wide, like your mill bigger = more $$$$.

Basically you need stepper motors, a way of getting the movement from the stepper to your table and control electronics, linear bearings ????

$$$$??? steppers, say$ 450.00, controller ( Ocean ) $45.00, + 3 axis controllers $400.00, ball screws, $600.00 ( Chinese ) Belts, less, chain, less,

Can you design the mechanics and wire it all up??? a kit with support for your first machine maybe the way to go. it seems you are busy with your mill ( I looked you up on the Aust Woodwork Forumn ) would you be better off using your time and skills there and get a machine, if you have a market why not sub out the sign business?? or at least at first to see if it is a goer.

If you are real keen and want to make your own linear bearings look at buildyouridea.com

Ed

[CarveOne]

well if y gave me a size and what you wanna do then i cold tell you how mutch it will cost. but i understand what you are saying.

i like the buildyourcnc.com desighn but i asume as with most kits /sets you buy you can get the parts cheeper if buy them yourself.

so instead of a price what mecanical and electrical stuff would i need to buy to build a 3 axis cnc with a cutting area of about 4' x 2'.

say i can make the thng that you can push around by hand what do i need to make it move and do what i want.

weisyboy,

There are a number of good plans for sale in that size available (I recommend http://www.solsylva.com/) and there are newly available free plans available on this site that uses http://www.cncrouterparts.com linear carriages. The JGRO and the Joes 2006 designs have their own forums here on CNC Zone. Many of the smaller designs can be "stretched" to 2' x 4' easily enough during the build at little extra cost other than to use longer pieces of material. All of these usually get modified in some way during the build just because that's what we DIYers like to do.

Many of us build a kit (or build from plans) a smaller machine first, then a larger machine afterwards when we have a better idea whether we are committed to this in a bigger way for personal hobby use or business uses.

As for price, you will need to get from other parts of the world the mechanical and electrical parts that you cannot make and are not available in Australia. There will be a higher shipping charge and a longer wait time for these. We would advise indentifying these parts and get them on order first so that you won't get into a many weeks long build-then-wait, build-then-wait cycle. There are lots of other knowledgeable Aussies here on CNC Zone that may be better able to help you with containing the price and tell you where to get some of the parts more locally. You may find one of them close enough to visit and see one in operation.

Basic parts of a CNC machine, depends on your choice of designs:

Materials - Hardware store parts, wood, MDF, aluminum, steel

Specialty parts - Lead screws, ball screws, rack and pinion, ball bearings, linear bearing carriages, linear motion slides, etc.

Electrical - Stepper or servos, stepper or servo control board, limit switches, emergency stop switch, wood router, trim router, RotoZip, Dremel tool, etc. dust collector, shop vacuum cleaner, suitable computer

Software - Mach3 (WinXP), EMC2 (Ubuntu Linux), CAD program(s), various CNC carving programs and gcode conversion programs,etc.

Effort/Dedication/Patience - Lots of it. Learn to effectively use all of the software and procedures for running the machine to cut the things you want to make. Don't give up or throw tantrums when something doesn't work right. Methodically troubleshoot the problem and correct it. (LOL, I fail most of these so far)

If you mean to convert a manual pantograph to CNC, I doubt that will be a good option. The ones I have seen are far too different to work out well at all. Maybe a production grade heavy machine might be workable.

CarveOne

[ger21]

You can buy a complete HobbyCNC kit with motors and drives for under $400, and can get inexpensive acme screws and nuts for all three axis for maybe $100-$200.

[weisyboy]

the reason for the 2' by 4' (i work in imperial not metric cos thats what my father works in) is that i know when i started in wasmilling i started with a small mill and slowly upgraded. it was always a log just to big so i figured it i make it bigger than i think i ned i should be coverd for a wile at least.

ok so i think i need.

3 stepper motors.

i will be mainly cutting in aussie hardwood not your soft american hardwood. and also mdf and cork. and what ever elsi i feel like. what isze motors do i need. is it a case of the biggest i can aford or is there some formula for working out what torque and stuff i need.

steper motor drivers

what type? dose it depend on the type of steper motor?

breakout board

thats the bit to connect your computer to teh cnc i belive. again what type is best and dose it depend on the drivers?

transformer

obvously that depends on the voltage of the motors etc.

lead screws and nuts

i have about 50m of 1/2" booker rod (threaded round bar) and hundreds of nuts in the shed can i use that?

is that all thats needed to make the thing move?

[CarveOne]

My comments are in blue below:

the reason for the 2' by 4' (i work in imperial not metric cos thats what my father works in) is that i know when i started in wasmilling i started with a small mill and slowly upgraded. it was always a log just to big so i figured it i make it bigger than i think i ned i should be coverd for a wile at least.

ok so i think i need.

3 stepper motors.

i will be mainly cutting in aussie hardwood not your soft american hardwood. and also mdf and cork. and what ever elsi i feel like. what isze motors do i need. is it a case of the biggest i can aford or is there some formula for working out what torque and stuff i need.

NEMA 23 frame, approximately 270 oz/in torque

I have some Aussie curly wandoo eucalyptus and some Sidney bluegum eucalyptus and it is a heavy and dense granite that resembles very pretty wood that is sold by the board foot for a king's ransom in the USA.

steper motor drivers

what type? dose it depend on the type of steper motor?

Bipolar type driver for the motors commonly used on cnc machines.
Yes. Gecko G540 is highly recommended. Kelling, HobbyCNC, Xylotex, and others are available.

breakout board

thats the bit to connect your computer to teh cnc i belive. again what type is best and dose it depend on the drivers?

No, that is the driver board. The G540 includes it. Others driver boards may or may not need one. It is used to connect home and limit switches, emergency stop switches, spindle on/off, and other functions to the driver board.

transformer

obvously that depends on the voltage of the motors etc.

Yes. You can use regulated or unregulated power supplies with the proper specifications for your driver board.

lead screws and nuts

i have about 50m of 1/2" booker rod (threaded round bar) and hundreds of nuts in the shed can i use that?

is that all thats needed to make the thing move?

That will work if they are clean, not rusted, and very straight. Much better speed and performance can be had with precision ACME thread rods and anti-backlash nuts.

No. You will need flexible couplers to connect the stepper motors to the lead screws, bearings for the lead screws, and some kind of bearings for the gantry and Z axis to run on. Please look at other people's build logs here and see what they are doing and the type of parts that they are using. The photos are worth gold for the knowledge you will absorb.

CarveOne

[weisyboy]

i got the linear bearings sorted and rails and bearing either end of the lead screws is aobvious.

thanks ill look up some pricing now i know what i need.

[appicnc]

Hello Wise boy


One thing you have ommitted is what are you going to do the cutting with??? options are something like a makita router or a spindle, one is MUCH better than the other, see if you can find out without asking for help - there will be a quiz at the end.

Ed

[weisyboy]

i was planing on using one of my 4 routers.