[ar5000]

My quote from Tormach is about $22,000. This includes the 4th axis, duality lathe, SprutCAM, a few other expensive items like the digitizing probe, and a boat load of tools, end stocks, collets, collet adapters, chucks, set screw holders, etc, AND SHIPPING (but no PC). If there wasn't such a HUGE price disparity between SprutCAM and MasterCAM with 4th and 5th axis controls, I'd probably have sprung for MasterCAM. I can't justify $8k-$15k in software for this $7k tool or even a $20k tool. I'm just hoping SprutCAMs 4th and 5th axis works worth a damn. Besides, I can always go back and get MasterCAM or one of the other CAM software titles later if I need it.

The good part is that I work in an R&D environment. Payoff isn't always measured in dollars and cents (at least not short term). If this machine helps me and the other engineers do our jobs more efficiently, then it was worth it. Right now, if we want something machined that our manual machine shop can't do, we have to send it out and wait a week or two. With this, we'll have same day turn around for a LOT less money.

Another thought on the economics is that if this machine ends up not working out, we can probably resell it and get maybe half of our initial investment back. Everyone here is comfortable with that idea. In the world of R&D, $20k is couch change.

the machines they show above will not cost $20k+. as best i can tell, to get what is in their ad picture above, you are looking at about $11530 plus shipping. now if you are ALSO including a 4th axis and all the tooling you will need, things not shown in the picture above, then sure, you'll be at $20k+.

[300sniper]

My quote from Tormach is about $22,000. This includes the 4th axis, duality lathe, SprutCAM, a few other expensive items like the digitizing probe, and a boat load of tools, end stocks, collets, collet adapters, chucks, set screw holders, etc, AND SHIPPING (but no PC). If there wasn't such a HUGE price disparity between SprutCAM and MasterCAM with 4th and 5th axis controls, I'd probably have sprung for MasterCAM. I can't justify $8k-$15k in software for this $7k tool or even a $20k tool. I'm just hoping SprutCAMs 4th and 5th axis works worth a damn. Besides, I can always go back and get MasterCAM or one of the other CAM software titles later if I need it.

The good part is that I work in an R&D environment. Payoff isn't always measured in dollars and cents (at least not short term). If this machine helps me and the other engineers do our jobs more efficiently, then it was worth it. Right now, if we want something machined that our manual machine shop can't do, we have to send it out and wait a week or two. With this, we'll have same day turn around for a LOT less money.

Another thought on the economics is that if this machine ends up not working out, we can probably resell it and get maybe half of our initial investment back. Everyone here is comfortable with that idea. In the world of R&D, $20k is couch change.

i have no doubt that you can easily get over $20k invested into it. i just had a problem with an earlier poster saying to get what is pictured in the tormach ad at the top of the page is going to cost over $20k. that is simply not true.

it sounds like you are off to a good start with you machine purchase. i am looking forward to hearing how it all works out for you.

[kevperro]

Most of my stuff is low volume work. I try to do < 50 unit runs of aluminum enclosures because designs are always changing.

The production run for my next 50 units cost $10K. I look at it like this, I can buy the machine, build product as I need it with higher quality materials than I'd use in a full production run. I also have the flexibility of changing things whenever needed. It isn't a pure dollars and cents comparison because having the machine gives me flexibility that I wouldn't otherwise have. It allows me to build projects that I'd never do without it because I'm not interested in doing 50 run orders. It opens up a lot of trial/error prototyping that I can now do in-house. I can do small runs to see what sells and when I move to larger runs I outsource them.

I figure just from a dollars & cents perspective it will pay off in 2 years tops. From all the other intangeables, I think it pays for itself the first year.

[fastlanecafe]

It looks like you made a realistic purchase and have planned things out for your projects. If your work environment is like you say, you'll probably be successful as long as the suits understand this thing is not a toaster that you just plug in and get toast 30 seconds later. Figure 2 weeks set up testing, adjusting and familiarizing before you get anything off the table.
Decades ago I worked for ASARCO ( American Smelting and Refining)- they were an old fashioned company that still did things in a 19th century fashion. Our plant had 900 employees working 3 shifts and each employee had his own pay formula. This archaic system required about 15 people working in a big room off large handwritten time sheets calculating each employees weekly pay. Night shift guys in the arsenic plant were paid differently than daytime guys in the acid plant etc. Anyway, the accounting manager got sold on a "new fangled" computer ( this is 1968) which was going to do away with all these people calculating payroll. This computer used paper tape rolls that had coded holes punched in them- end result was they had to hire 6 more new people to try and keep this thing running, while the original 15 kept plugging away on those time sheets. 6 months later the computer and the accounting manager were gone.

[fastlanecafe]

I wouldn't be so sure. I recently convinced management that we needed a CNC mill/lathe for rapid prototyping at the office. Shortly after, I saw the PCNC 1100 on Prototype This (the Fire Fighting equipment episode). I got the final $20k PO for it along with all the tooling, accessories, and software approved today. Had it not been for Prototype This, I probably would be buying a used POS off of Ebay.

Its been a year now- whatever happened to the TV show? Did you get your machine?

[ar5000]

Its been a year now- whatever happened to the TV show? Did you get your machine?

I got the machine and love it. Being my first CNC machine and first time using CAM software, I had a steep learning curve, but my machining experience and background as an IT person carried me through. The machine has been great once you learn its limitations. I did have a control board stop working intermittently due to some bad soldering but Tormach replaced it free of charge even AFTER the 6-mo warranty had expired :-) I actually got my old board working again after tugging on some wires pretty hard but replaced it anyway. Also, the CAM software it comes with is great for relatively simple projects but rather quirky when it comes to interpreting complex surfaces. All in all, I'd consider it a great value and recommend it to anyone who's not going to be doing a LOT of volume and needs super fast turn-around on CNC'd parts.

I haven't see the TV show in a while. I don't know if they are doing another season or not.

[StephanWenger]

If the show were restarted, it would probably be without this very Tormach.
When I was buying mine early this year, Tormach offered me the machine shown in the program as slightly used and at a discount. After consideration, I opted for a new machine anyway, for a number of reasons, including my trust (or lack thereof) in the "machinist team" that were the earlier users...
Stephan

[ViperTX]

fastlanecafe,

You mentioned ASARCO....that wasn't in the El Paso area was it?

Paul

[ar5000]

If the show were restarted, it would probably be without this very Tormach.
When I was buying mine early this year, Tormach offered me the machine shown in the program as slightly used and at a discount. After consideration, I opted for a new machine anyway, for a number of reasons, including my trust (or lack thereof) in the "machinist team" that were the earlier users...
Stephan

After a few minor "wrecks" with my own machine and some long discussions with the staff at Tormach, I'm under the impression you really can't severely damage one of these machines baring some extreme circumstance. As long as they offered some kind of warranty with that machine it would probably be a good buy.

[StephanWenger]

Having had a few "minor wrecks" of my own over the last half year, with no measurable impact on my Tormach, I tend to agree---now. Back then, I didn't know.
Stephan