[yngndrw]

Personally I couldn't be bothered changing the connector so I just used it anyway (That and the bolt-on flange from most of the nicer connectors would block the air vent on my air cooled spindle.), so I can't really suggest a better connector I'm afraid.

[kolias]

Me too I have been thinking to get one of those Chinese VFD / Spindel packages, their price is quite attractive but service is non existent and I think after you do your purchase you are on your own.

But I did find Keling to be reasonably priced to the Chinese and they are identical to the Chinese including the English manual but don’t know how good Keling service will be with the VFD.

I also found this place in US
Electric Motors, New items in Applied Dynamics Corporation store on eBay!
but they only supply VFD’s with a good price

And Automation4less also supply only VFD’s also with a good price

And this one UgraCNC supplies VFD and Spindels at reasonable prices

Very risky to buy VFD from China due to lack of communications / knowledge so if I decide to go for a VFD / Spindel package I will pay the extra $$ and get it from US

Just my opinion

[hemsworthlad]

Me too I have been thinking to get one of those Chinese VFD / Spindel packages, their price is quite attractive but service is non existent and I think after you do your purchase you are on your own.


Very risky to buy VFD from China due to lack of communications / knowledge so if I decide to go for a VFD / Spindel package I will pay the extra $$ and get it from US

Just my opinion

That depends where you buy from.? I've bought several Vfd/spindels setups from Chai at Linearmotionbearings and if there's ever been a problem he's more than happy to help correct.

In the early days the chinese VFd's were quite dodgy but the ones I've had recently have been fine and the spindles have also had a bit of a upgrade with larger connectors for both water and electrics with a dedicated earth pin. Also now 8A up from 7A.
For the small difference the vfd makes to the price its worth the risk and out of 11-12 setups I've only had 1 vfd that was faulty and 1 spindle which was missng it's rubber O-rings so leaked internally and damaged. Both where replaced by Chai.

The VFD's are not complicated to setup and there's English manuels so that's not an issue. . . Definately worth a GO IMO.!

[kolias]

I know about Chai and I plan to buy my linear bearings from him but on the VFD / spindel package the price difference is not that big and we are not comparing apples with apples.

I can get from US a Hitachi X200 1.5KW VFD along with a spindle for about $530 + shipping and from Chai is $425 shipping included. So perhaps the difference is about $150 but I printed both manuals, the Chinese 60 some pages and the Hitachi 300 some pages and just from the manuals you can see the difference. I don’t know but I will also assume the X200 must be a better quality.

In addition, just the help I could get from US speaking the same language its worth a lot to me.

I bought from China a lot of items and I was burned once, a 4 axis stepper driver I got for $100 and never used it because the 2 page manual had not the proper info to make the connections and the vendor never answered my emails.

Yes I don’t mind to take a risk to save some $$ but with the VFD I find it difficult. In any case I haven’t made my mind yet and it is possible when I buy the linear sets from Chai to get the VFD package too. Nothing wrong to buy from China but it’s bloody risky LOL

[hemsworthlad]

I know about Chai and I plan to buy my linear bearings from him but on the VFD / spindel package the price difference is not that big and we are not comparing apples with apples.


In addition, just the help I could get from US speaking the same language its worth a lot to me.

Yes I don’t mind to take a risk to save some $$ but with the VFD I find it difficult. In any case I haven’t made my mind yet and it is possible when I buy the linear sets from Chai to get the VFD package too. Nothing wrong to buy from China but it’s bloody risky LOL

Yes I fully understand what you mean regards quality and there was a time when I recommended NOT buying the chinese VFD's but things have changed and they have got better.

I have High quality ABB Torque vector drive and to be honest most of it's features are not required, these spindles are very simple things and don't even tax VFD's with the lowest of features.

Can't vouch for the rest of China but I ceratainly can for Chai he's a good guy to deal plus but like anything in life theres a risk, sure there's a few US merchants that will burn you given half a chance, certainly is here in UK.!!

[kolias]

Everything received and installed , control via modbus with Mach3 , work great,

But i did not expect that it would be a lot heavier than the porter cable router , so i had to reduce rapid speed on my joe2006 cnc !!! i'll have to find a way to counter weight that spindle !!!

Glad you git it all working. Can you tell me if you had to pay Brokers fees / Duties on the Hitachi? I'm in Montreal

[mindstorm88]

Glad you git it all working. Can you tell me if you had to pay Brokers fees / Duties on the Hitachi? I'm in Montreal

About $38.00

[ShapeShaver]

Also, are you sure it's an ER16 collet? I ask because normally ER16's only go up to .4375" and the standard calls for the very outside diameter to be just .65". There's no way you'd get a 1/2" bit in a standard one of those? And ER16 also seems very small for a 3kw. Usually once you hit 2.2kw and above, it's an ER20, you do see some ER16's on a 2.2kw, but not that often I find. But on a 3kw, that would just be a waste.

My mistake, you are correct, It was an er20 collet and my columbo has an er25 collet on it.

Out of curiosity, what do you normally machine with such a long Z? It's massive!

cheers,
Ian

We do 3D scanning of parts ranging in size from an inch to the size of a car. Then we scale or model the pieces and mill the out of foams to be used as a pattern or to be coated and used as the final product.

Thanks

[bradeyk]

i just bought an 0.8kw spindle, it is much heavier then expected, but it is missing the watercooling barbs, does anyone know where i could get 2, and what dimension they are, 1/4 barb to 3/16bsp thread?

[diyengineer]

i just bought an 0.8kw spindle, it is much heavier then expected, but it is missing the watercooling barbs, does anyone know where i could get 2, and what dimension they are, 1/4 barb to 3/16bsp thread?

I looked for the barbs everywhere. Nothing i found fit at all. Your best bet is to drill them up and tap them. Just make sure you use a coolant resistant sealant on the threads, and you flush all the chips out of the water jacket.

[allengambrell]

Is anyone running one of the 2.2kw spindles below 12000 rpm? I was just wondering if it can go lower without much drawback. If so how much.
Other than the frequency what settings to change?

I have a 2.2kw from linermotion2008 with a hatichi x200 (12000-21000 rpm) and the spindle did not come with any specs about speeds.

[diyengineer]

Is anyone running one of the 2.2kw spindles below 12000 rpm? I was just wondering if it can go lower without much drawback. If so how much.
Other than the frequency what settings to change?

I have a 2.2kw from linermotion2008 with a hatichi x200 (12000-21000 rpm) and the spindle did not come with any specs about speeds.

Fan or water cooled?

Ive ran mine in the 3,000-4,000 range just fine. it has a ton of TQ.

[theminor]

I'm considering getting one of these spindles and this thread seems to be the definitive resource on the topic.

I'm considering a 3KW air-cooled spindle. I noticed however, that many of the 3KW and above air-cooled spindles are only rated to 18,000 RPM whereas the watercooled spindles in this range as well as the air-cooled spindles below this power level can go up to 24,000 RPM. This is not true across the boards, however - there are a few sellers that have air-cooled 3KW spindles and show specs for them to go up to 24,000 RPM.

For example:

• This one from love-happy is rated only to 18000 RPM
• But this one is rated to 24000 RPM. It also claims to have the "four bearings" - and I'm still not sure what that is all about...

Can anyone explain the difference? I thought these were all essentially the same spindles... Also has there been any more information on what the "four bearing" types are?

[MechanoMan]

This is not true across the boards, however - there are a few sellers that have air-cooled 3KW spindles and show specs for them to go up to 24,000 RPM.

For example:

• This one from love-happy is rated only to 18000 RPM
• But this one is rated to 24000 RPM. It also claims to have the "four bearings" - and I'm still not sure what that is all about...

Can anyone explain the difference? I thought these were all essentially the same spindles... Also has there been any more information on what the "four bearing" types are?

When I look at this vendor's picture of the "24,000 RPM" motor, it depicts "SPEED 300Hz". NOT 400Hz like the water-cooled. 300Hz is 18,000 RPM. So I don't think he has a different motor. He copied over the water-cooled motor spec to the air-cooled either by accident or by fraud.

[theminor]

When I look at this vendor's picture of the "24,000 RPM" motor, it depicts "SPEED 300Hz". NOT 400Hz like the water-cooled. 300Hz is 18,000 RPM. So I don't think he has a different motor. He copied over the water-cooled motor spec to the air-cooled either by accident or by fraud.

Good catch. Very hard to see but I think you are correct. I sent a question to the seller asking directly if it is 300 Hz or 400 Hz and what the RPM is. We'll see what the response is - I'm not hopeful!

As someone who uses a router on his machine currently, I'm thinking that extra RPM would be nice to have. Anyone have one of these 18,000 spindles care to comment? How important will it be to have that additional 4K RPM?

[dwalsh62]

The spindle uses 4 bearings, 2 at the fronts and 2 at the rear, the dual rear in this case isn't helping much because they're deep-groove bearings, a P2 rated single bearing would produce significantly better results than the P6 dual bearings currently used, if you swap out the bearings to NSK P5 rated you will see the 24,000RPM (26,000RPM rated bearings) you want since the current bearings are rated for 17,000RPM and they run it at 18,000RPM.

And, so there is no mistake, this is only a 2.2KW spindle (do the math).

Here's the technical drawing for this spindle, this company is known to produce good stuff but their stuff is also being copied by other companies (including their sticker) so be sure what you are buying.

This spindle is fairly close to my spindle design which is what all the china copies are based off of however, mine does achieve 24,000RPM, is a true 3.0KW motor, is slightly larger, definitely longer and does carry a higher price tag ($650.00 for the spindle only) so you get what you pay for.

[Grebbo]

My understanding is that the air cooled spindles are “slower” than the water cooled ones as the air fan itself creates some resistance??
Have you considered the air cooled spindles are probably less suitable for dusty environments, say like when you work with particle wood panels etc? The water cooled units are totally sealed, also the water cooled spindle is a lot quieter that the air? Something to consider I guess..

[ger21]

The main difference between a 24,000 rpm spindle and an 18,000 rpm spindle is the bearings.

Have you considered the air cooled spindles are probably less suitable for dusty environments, say like when you work with particle wood panels etc?

Dust has no effect on air cooled spindles. The air flows through the outer body, not through the middle of the spindle.

Also, be aware that air cooled spindles with shaft mounted fans can be even louder than routers

[theminor]

Good info, thanks everyone. I really wanted to go air cooled just because of the extra setup needed for the water cooling. I'm not totally opposed to it and still might go that way, but just weighing options. It sounds like this chinese spindles are a little risky in general. Perhaps I will stick with my router for a while longer. I haven't quite decided, though.

Here is the response I got from the eBay seller with the listing of the air-cooled 24K RPM spindle.

My question:

Can you please confirm this spindle actually goes to 24,000 RPM? Your specs say it goes to 24000 RPM but many of these spindles (3KW air cooled) are only rated to 18,000 RPM. In one of your pictures, the frequency appears to be 300 Hz (which would indicate a max RPM of 18000) instead of 400 Hz (which would indicate 24000 RPM).

His response:

Thank you for your letter.and as what you said,friend,you are right,the 3kw air cooled spindle only rated to 18000RPM,300Hz,it also can reach 24000RPM,but it will shorten the life of the spindle. And Friend,do you must need the air spindle?our water cooled can reach 24000RPM AND 400 Hz.Could you consider it ?
Best Regards
jack

At least he was honest about it!

[theminor]

So it sounds like the cheap bearings in these spindles (despite being called "Germany" bearings) are the biggest weakness (or one of the big weaknesses). I've read a good bit of this mega-thread and many have alluded to replacing these bearings, but I haven't found any information on how hard that would be to do yourself? Is it possible to replace the bearings with nicer ones or is that something that would be too difficult due to runout problems developing or for other reasons?

If I do end up getting an 18000 RPM spindle, I'm wondering how much I'll miss that 6K RPM (to get to 24K RPM). Seems like I'd want 24K RPM for many wood cutting operations...