[diyengineer]

http://www.automation4less.com/invdrives.htm
X200 hitachi drive.


I plan on buying my spindle alone (probably off ebay), and then purchasing a good VFD like the hitachi above.

[stevespo]

HereinCS, the Chinese spindles, IMO are a nice improvement over the PC 690/890 series routers that I was using. More powerful, more accurate, better collet system, quieter.

That said, the routers do accurate work and provide very good price/performance. You can always start with a laminate trimmer or a $150 router and run that for the time being. If you're doing well with the machine and feel the need to upgrade, there are plenty of chances later on.

The "hidden costs" to getting the spindle up and running are:

1) hiring the electrician ($150+), or going DIY (wire, box, time, etc)
2) some type of disconnect, 220V on/off switch $12-$30.
3) shielded cable from the VFD to motor, varies from $.50/ft to $2.50/ft
4) cooling setup, varies from 5 gallon bucket with aquarium pump ($20) to much more
5) set of ER collets (perhaps $50, or potentially much more)
6) set of ER wrenchs, spare nuts, etc (few more bucks)

Steve

[yngndrw]

I would just like to point out that some of those costs can be avoided.

I personally don't bother with shielded cable and have not had any issues from it.

You can avoid the cooling costs by going with the air-cooled version, however keep in mind that the minimum speed of it is 6,000RPM.

I personally am perfectly happy with the VFD included in the Ebay auctions and hence that removes a bit of that cost.

[stevespo]

Yes, I should have said "possible hidden costs". There are lots of approaches that work.

I first tried unshielded cable, but the electrical noise was causing problems with false triggers on my (shielded) limit switches. I also went through (2) Chinese VFDs in 8 months and wish I had started with the Hitachi (or quality equivalent).

I mention this because it seems to be a recurring theme. YMMV.

Steve

[ger21]

Also, the air cooled are not available in 2.2Kw, which is what most people are buying.

[HereinCS]

These costs don't seem that outrageous to me, if the performance gain is substantial. It just seem to me that my router would not last long with such use, at $170, I wouldn't want to buy a new router. Plus the down time will be annoying. My machine is getting to the point of overkill, so a dedicated spindle will fit in just fine.

I'm not sure what makes a good or bad VFD, would you explain?

[stevespo]

It's hard to quantify the performance gain going from a PC890 to a 2.2KW spindle.

I feel like the biggest gain is probably accuracy/runout. The router actually did well, even with very small inlay parts - but the spindle is clearly better. So, perhaps a few thou of runout on the PC, verses less than .001" for the spindle. It is quieter and more powerful, but I tend take light cuts and I'm running a dust collector nearby that negates most of the noise difference.

I can't say what makes a VFD good or bad, except for life span. There seem to be a growing number of people who started with the eBay (Huanyang, Holip, etc) VFD to have them fail within the first year, or shortly out of warranty.

Warranty replacement is tough because the shipping is so expensive. I liked both my VFDs in terms of function, but they were both duds in terms of lifespan. There are probably many many thousands in long term service, so I wouldn't say my experience is typical. Read up and draw your own conclusions.

Steve

[HereinCS]

Thanks again Steve. I'll probably pick up one of these Chinese spindles, probably an air cooled one for simplicity. It seems that the consensus is that the spindles are not bad, but the vfd is bad. So I'll just take the advise and buy the spindle and vfd from different sources.

[yngndrw]

In that case make sure you get a VFD which can do up to 400Hz. Don't forget to set the minimum frequency to 100Hz. (6,000RPM)

[HereinCS]

Is there a down side to too much power? I noticed that the air cooled units are getting more powerful, .8kw to 4kw! I'm thinking of picking up a 1.5kw, but wonder if I'm better off with something more powerful.

[ger21]

Be aware that the 1.5Kw typically has a max collet size of about 1/4" (ER11 collets). The 2.2Kw can take 1/2" tools with their ER20 collets.

Other than that, weight might be an issue.

[HereinCS]

How much do they weigh?

I'm looking at this item here. It specified the size, but not weight.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AIR-COOLE-MO...ht_9527wt_1137

[twombo]

One area I've not seen addressed in this thread is operation device operation on three phase power. The spindle is rated at 220v. Since 120/208 3 phase is 208 v (line to line), can a person run a native three phase input VFD to power these spindles?

for example:

Is it differences in terminology like: 240v single phase is actually 2 legs of 120 v... or is it 220 that is 2 legs of 110, etc.

Is it 110 Vac, or 115 Vac, or 117 Vac, or 120Vac.. catch my drift?

Why do I ask? I live off the grid and have an 8 kw, 3 phase, Cummins/Onan Genset (that I got for free!) that I plan to use to run my spindle and dust collection on 3 phase power with. The table runs on my inverter and battery bank.

I plan to use contactors with thermal protection to make the connections to the equipment and a dedicated service to my shop.

thanks, what say ye?

Twombo

[twombo]

sorry... double post

[diyengineer]

One area I've not seen addressed in this thread is operation device operation on three phase power. The spindle is rated at 220v. Since 120/208 3 phase is 208 v (line to line), can a person run a native three phase input VFD to power these spindles?

for example:

Is it differences in terminology like: 240v single phase is actually 2 legs of 120 v... or is it 220 that is 2 legs of 110, etc.

Is it 110 Vac, or 115 Vac, or 117 Vac, or 120Vac.. catch my drift?

Why do I ask? I live off the grid and have an 8 kw, 3 phase, Cummins/Onan Genset (that I got for free!) that I plan to use to run my spindle and dust collection on 3 phase power with. The table runs on my inverter and battery bank.

I plan to use contactors with thermal protection to make the connections to the equipment and a dedicated service to my shop.

thanks, what say ye?

Twombo

I believe hitachi makes VFD's that will accept a 3 phase input.

[EBC]

One area I've not seen addressed in this thread is operation device operation on three phase power. The spindle is rated at 220v. Since 120/208 3 phase is 208 v (line to line), can a person run a native three phase input VFD to power these spindles?

for example:

Is it differences in terminology like: 240v single phase is actually 2 legs of 120 v... or is it 220 that is 2 legs of 110, etc.

Is it 110 Vac, or 115 Vac, or 117 Vac, or 120Vac.. catch my drift?

Why do I ask? I live off the grid and have an 8 kw, 3 phase, Cummins/Onan Genset (that I got for free!) that I plan to use to run my spindle and dust collection on 3 phase power with. The table runs on my inverter and battery bank.

I plan to use contactors with thermal protection to make the connections to the equipment and a dedicated service to my shop.

thanks, what say ye?

Twombo

Twombo,

Great to see another off the grid shop...

You should be able to use a 220v single phase leg to run a vfd if necessary...and yes you can also get a 3phase in 3 phase out vfd..do you also use the genset to charge the batteries???

Gene

[yngndrw]

One area I've not seen addressed in this thread is operation device operation on three phase power. The spindle is rated at 220v. Since 120/208 3 phase is 208 v (line to line), can a person run a native three phase input VFD to power these spindles?

for example:

Is it differences in terminology like: 240v single phase is actually 2 legs of 120 v... or is it 220 that is 2 legs of 110, etc.

Is it 110 Vac, or 115 Vac, or 117 Vac, or 120Vac.. catch my drift?

Why do I ask? I live off the grid and have an 8 kw, 3 phase, Cummins/Onan Genset (that I got for free!) that I plan to use to run my spindle and dust collection on 3 phase power with. The table runs on my inverter and battery bank.

I plan to use contactors with thermal protection to make the connections to the equipment and a dedicated service to my shop.

thanks, what say ye?

Twombo

The difference between 220V and 240V is negligible - It will run off 220V or 240V three phase perfectly fine. Don't try running it off 415V three phase though. :P

I believe that in single-phase mode, VFDs are actually meant to be underrated, but you're likely only to reach the maximum power draw on an odd occasion anyway so it ends up as just a peak. As such there's not a huge reason to bother with running it on three phase at all so feel free to run it off two phase instead if you don't want the cost of the extra cable. (Or just do whatever's easier for your situation.)

[HereinCS]

I've been looking at the Colombo rv55 at $800. The 4kw chinese spindle is arount $600 shipped. Which would you chose if this difference in price is negligible to you?

[jsheerin]

The rv55 series is from 0.4 to 1.1kW according to this:
http://www.pdscolombo.com/prod_rvmtc.php

So if you only need 1kW and want a nicer spindle, get the Colombo. If you need 4x the power and are on a budget, get the Chinese spindle.

[diyengineer]

The rv55 series is from 0.4 to 1.1kW according to this:
http://www.pdscolombo.com/prod_rvmtc.php

So if you only need 1kW and want a nicer spindle, get the Colombo. If you need 4x the power and are on a budget, get the Chinese spindle.

At least you know coming from Colombo its a FULL 1KW and not some bull**** spec from china.