[dafowfidy]

Has anyone converted the dogs on the spindle from BT to CAT? I am getting in a 92 VF2 and would like to the conversion if it is not too much $. Also what would you need to do the tool carousel.

[Geof]

You need to change the fingers on the carousel. The difference between BT40 and CT40 is in the flange that is gripped by the tool changer.

Actually there is also a difference in the size (height I think) of the dogs but the Haas spindle is made to accommodate either.

[ckirchen]

In addition to what Geof pointed out, a CT holder is also longer than a BT holder. In the Haas manual, it shows it as .12" longer (2.69" vs. 2.57"). That will cause the pull stud to sit higher, but as luck would have it, a BT pull stud is .114" longer than a CT pull stud (1.104" vs. 0.990"). I'm not sure if that .006" difference is cause for concern though...

Geof, are you sure that dafowfidy needs new fingers? Take a look at the attached picture (out of an NSK catalog). The V groove on both tool holders is 60° inclusive, with one of the differences being the depth of the groove. If the fingers fit into both holders, it just means that they would have to open more for the CT holder. As far as the different height from the gage line, that would mean altering the parameter that tells the Z axis where to go for a tool change.

Haas charges the same for a BT machine as it does for a CT machine, which might be because they don't have to change anything mechanical. I wouldn't put it past Haas to make a one-size-fits-all spindle...goes well with their lean production methodology.

[Geof]

....Geof, are you sure that dafowfidy needs new fingers?.....Haas charges the same for a BT machine as it does for a CT machine, which might be because they don't have to change anything mechanical. I wouldn't put it past Haas to make a one-size-fits-all spindle...goes well with their lean production methodology.

Pretty sure, absolutely sure in the case of a side mount tool changer. I bought a VF2 that had originally been destined for Korea and it was equipped for BT40 and already crated. Rather than unpack, change and recrate they sent the CT40 changer arm in a separate box and the tech switched them in my shop when the machine was installed. That was all that was changed, the arm that has the grippers on the end to exchange the holder in the spindle with the next holder. The only other thing altered was the Z position for the toolchange because there is a slight difference in the vertical position of the location the fingers grip. Haas does make a one-size-fits-all-spindle.

[ckirchen]

I was thinking about the umbrella changers; I forgot all about the SMTC...

[Donkey Hotey]

I could be totally crazy but didn't I read in here somewhere that the BT to CAT conversion on the umbrella tool changer involved turning the finger plate upside-down? I thought the offset was built into the fingers and installation direction determined which configuration you had.

[Geof]

I could be totally crazy but didn't I read in here somewhere that the BT to CAT conversion on the umbrella tool changer involved turning the finger plate upside-down? I thought the offset was built into the fingers and installation direction determined which configuration you had.

Check the fingers, I think they are symmetric to inversion.

[Ginger_Ninja54]

Older umbrella ATC's had reversible fingers, so you could turn them over yourself, but the later ones need completely different fingers.
The sidemounts only need the arm changed.

[dafowfidy]

Geof, are you sure that dafowfidy needs new fingers? Take a look at the attached picture (out of an NSK catalog). The V groove on both tool holders is 60° inclusive, with one of the differences being the depth of the groove. If the fingers fit into both holders, it just means that they would have to open more for the CT holder. As far as the different height from the gage line, that would mean altering the parameter that tells the Z axis where to go for a tool change.

Well I pulled the tool changer apart today and the fingers are symmetric therefore inverting them will not help my situation. Anyway the fingers do fit the CAT40 holders so I am assuming a change in the parameters for the Z position is the best way to go.

Does any one know off hand what and were the parameter is to change the Z Position? I am looking in the manual that came with the machine but it seems there are a few pages either missing or out of order

[machinetoolguy]

If it is a CT carousel all 40 fingers will need to be replaced. They are different. You will also need to move them from on top of the dog key to the bottom. Don't forget to change parameter 64 (Tool Change Hieght) after this has been done. Pretty easy and inexpensive fix. Vise Versa for BT to CT.

[dafowfidy]

If it is a CT carousel all 40 fingers will need to be replaced. They are different. You will also need to move them from on top of the dog key to the bottom. Don't forget to change parameter 64 (Tool Change Hieght) after this has been done. Pretty easy and inexpensive fix. Vise Versa for BT to CT.

CT carousal?

It is a 92 VF2 16 station, not That one station needs new fingers so I guess I am down to 15. Anyway first thing in the morning I will look into parameter 64. Also note the dogs are currently under the fingers.

[machinetoolguy]

Ok so we have a 16 station BT carousel here. If it has the old school 1 piece style finger set up it is still an easy fix. The fingers are for sure different so they will need to be replaced. The actual diameter where it grips the tool is slightly different. I have not seen one of those style setups in a long while. Sorry for the misleading info before.
I used to work at the factory back in 1994 building the carousel plates. They changed to a 2 finger set up in 92 or 93. The Haas part number for the CT single finger extractor is 22-7066A and for the BT it is 20-7166 check it out with your local Haas Factory Outlet. Hope I cleared the confusion I caused.

[mniadna]

I have a '97 Haas with the umbrella CT changer, that I would like to use BT tooling in. One thing I'm not clear on... If I change the fingers, will I be able to run CT and BT tooling in the machine at the same time using the same tool change height position? Do the fingers compensate for the height difference?

[machinetoolguy]

No, it is either a BT or CT tool changer. The difference between the 2 is the finger diameter and the positioning of the fingers. On a CT the fingers are placed on top of the tool dog key. On a BT, the fingers are place directly on the carousel plate with the tool dog key on top. Tool change height will be an issue. Hope this helps.

[mniadna]

I realize there is a height difference. What I'm asking is if I change half of the fingers to BT. Can I run BT tooling in the BT pockets and CT tooling in the CT pockets with the same tool change height position?

[Geof]

I realize there is a height difference. What I'm asking is if I change half of the fingers to BT. Can I run BT tooling in the BT pockets and CT tooling in the CT pockets with the same tool change height position?

I doubt it; I had a machine changed from BT to CT and the tool change height had to be altered by about 5mm.

[machinetoolguy]

Nope. There is a big difference in hieght.

[tripp1234]

Hello
I am a Haas Service Eng. All you have to do is change the Tool plate on the tool changer. If you have a Side mount. You will need to change the tool arm. The reset you tool Hieght. For the Z axis. That is it. The spindle is the same for a Haas Mill.

[machinetoolguy]

I am too a Haas Service Engineer and do not understand the reply here. The question was "can he put half BT and half CT fingers on a single plate" as I read it. I do not understand what the tool plate has to do with it. The tool plate is the same for BT and CT tool changers. It is the finger location and finger diameter that changes here. With that said, the tool changer hieght (Parameter 64) will be off. You can not run CT and BT tooling together on an umbrella style tool changer without risking a crash.
Hope this clears the air.

[tripp1234]

Yes you are right. I miss read the question. I thought he needed to convert his machine from a BT to a CT. There is no way to run both on the same machine. Sorry for that.