[TOTALLYRC]

I actually forgot about cncbrain.....till I got email notification someone posted to this thread.
Amazing.....no posts in a couple months...

I would be mad if I spent money too, and rightly so.
Bad thing is, it will be tough for the 'next guy' that comes along with a great idea.....I will be automatically skeptical as will lots of others I am sure.

I've thrashed for a week straight, 12-14 hr days on a small gang tool hardinge cnc lathe retrofit. Should be complete and making chips in a day or two. Fagor 8025 control, which replaced an Omniturn (Omniturd) control.
Yesterday ripped out the 1HP spindle motor and vari-speed belts/pulleys, and today, in goes a 5HP motor with micro-vee drive pulleys & belt. Well, that sounds too easy.....there's 12 hours work or so making new motor mounts, moving the motor location, etc.

I can't wait to make chips....

I couldn't wait for cncbrain...

I took a hard look at the cnc brain before going a different route. I was very interested but I needed the machine to be up and running on my schedule.

I will keep my eyes open and when and if the brain is up to speed I will again take a hard look at using it as I have more machines in my future.

I wish Bruce all the best and hopefully the brain comes to fruition.

Mike

[turmite]

Well......I had email and ph contact with him about a month ago. All I can tell you is that he is still working on it and there are beta testers who have access everything new that has been done. He told me he wanted to make sure it was ready before doing the release thing again.

He told me something that I couldn't really relate to until he explained it to me.

Bruce said the Brain is now a physics engine. One of the new goodies is the Brain will help with the set up of the machine to the very maximum physical limits of the machine. During set up you will be asked for some physical input about the machine. Then the Brain will begin to test the axis one at a time until failure. It automatically records those settings, then backs off a percentage. If my understanding is correct, it will then test multiple axis at the same time and repeat the process till the machine is tuned!

I bought a CNCBrain, and I am not a bit upset. On the other hand, I already had a machine running!(nuts)

Mike

[kmcwhq]

Well......I had email and ph contact with him about a month ago. All I can tell you is that he is still working on it and there are beta testers who have access everything new that has been done. He told me he wanted to make sure it was ready before doing the release thing again.

This is starting to repeat as often Shark Week on the Discovery Channel.....
Heard it all months ago.

He told me something that I couldn't really relate to until he explained it to me.
Bruce said the Brain is now a physics engine.

Golly that all sounds really cool....
When people have spent money on a product and can't use it in over a year, that is strictly -bad- business practice.
I think most would be happy with a working basic system instead of talk of advanced features?

I asked a series of questions in a direct email 2 or more months ago, and one of them was regarding the requirements of becoming a beta tester (at least).
Most of the questions were answered with a positive outlook in the true sense of a good salesman, however the Beta Tester question was completely ignored.

cncor......have you asked for a refund?

[dirtdiggler]

I thought Bruce said he was going to do an update every month or so on this thread? It should'nt take more then 10 minutes to type a quick update....it looks like he blew this off.

Is Bruce willing to refund the money to people who bought it? $500 is a lot of money to some in this economy.

Even if he's been working on it for months there is still no time range of when he will finish the product.

[brccrb]

Sorry, been completely heads down.

Originally, the idea was to take the PID based CNC Brain and tweak it. This created the first versions through v1.6.0.3.

We would make changes for better controllably for one type of machine just to exclude another. This went on until it became obvious that a PID just wouldn't cover the range.

This comes from two aspects:
1) During a cut, motions are slower with constant forces and vibration. Position is everything.
2) During rapids, speed. That's about it, speed.

***
Speaking in 20/20 hindsight:
***

1) The control logic got intermixed with the communications. These things happen on the first pass of anything as you are focused on getting the other 3,000 pieces talking and operational (4 compilers, 3 languages, 3 CAD systems, manufacturing issues, etc. ... all at once).

This resulted in common errors (aka "Basics") that would "randomly" occur, such as unexplained pausing while waiting for flags to get set or released. Simple thing to understand, not a simple fix.

2) The early physics of the Brain were created as a hybrid-PID. Tuning of a PID can be a real pain ("touchy" comes to mind).

The "bright idea" was to have the Brain constantly tune the PID from the results of motion. It does more math per second than can be imagined. Good idea, dumb implementation (stupidly did not expose a manual option). Too much noise from the motors and too large of a range of machine types caused the algorithm to go off reservation.

3) Inexperience. Yep, that's about as clear as it gets. CNC is a HUGE topic and the range of implementations the Brain has found its way onto .. well ... could not have imagined such things.

***
So, now what.
***

V2 core is completely different. It isn't a tweak, it is a complete rewrite. We've had people with a total of about 500 years of >>CNC experience<< advising us, directing us, ... correcting us.

We kept 2,900 of the pieces, organized them, and then focused on the core issues.

1) Stability. We've pulled the entire core apart and reassembled it piece by piece. No more dead moves or lost flags.

2) True physics engine. Now, this one is a lengthy discussion and best saved for another time. But basically, we scrapped the PID and put in its place a true non-linear physics engine. Yes, this includes S-Curves, but much more. This lets it accurately predict behavior in cutting and rapids.

3) Automatic or manual setup. While no longer a PID, the configuration (including curvatures) can be manually set (file that under, "well duh").

4) G-Code support: Multiple. Drop down for which interpreter you want, such as Fagor, Mach, etc.. Or create your own.

5) The GUI sucked. Now, to rearrange the screen to your need, just tap a button and drag anything around as you like. Everything stretches and scales. You decide what you want it to look like/work.


***
Great, so when? And why the heck has it taken so long?
***

It has been a complete rewrite. This means we took everything apart, mapped it, redesigned it, then coded it.

We also took the time to document everything as we put it back together (which is a story itself). This helped us find those "basics" that were so annoying.

As to when, well, we have pieces being tested. We are getting ready to send out more pieces to a select set of advanced users. After that, it moves out to all the beta testers.

As for taking so long, well, surprisingly, designing the Brain isn't something you can find on Google. It is unique and as such has taken tremendous amounts of time to solve the problems.

Hopefully, we are at the end of this development cycle.

***
So when will a "Production" version be available?
***

When all the beta testers are saying it is production ready. Not a minute before.

s/Bruce

P.S. Took me 32 minutes to write this.

[Dougal]

Good to hear an update.:banana:

I knew from the start what I was getting into and I'm happy to wait and work through.
It's all part of life at the bleeding edge.

[PEU]

Stumbled across this thread again, no updates for CNCBrain or that alleged collaboration between Bruce & Mariss that was hinted months ago?


Pablo

[Mariss Freimanis]

I was promised a schematic and a BOM which I was going graft onto the G540 motherboard. I went as far as doing a test pcb layout and a hardware study which showed it was possible to achieve that goal. I waited for the promised next step but it never happened. It seems interest waned on someone's part other than mine.

This is like fishing. Sometimes you catch something but most times you just sit there with your lines in the water. It's good to have other things to do instead of just waiting to see if you get a bite.

Since that didn't go anywhere, something else with the G540 has come up that has me excited. It involves a collaborative effort with another firm that will make the G540 similar to an Ipod player except it will play back CNC motion paths instead music files. Many production applications need the same motion path repeated again and again without having to have the "artist" present to re-record the "song" every time you want to play it back (the CNC program and a PC).

Mariss

[the4thseal]

Since that didn't go anywhere, something else with the G540 has come up that has me excited. It involves a collaborative effort with another firm that will make the G540 similar to an Ipod player except it will play back CNC motion paths instead music files. Many production applications need the same motion path repeated again and again without having to have the "artist" present to re-record the "song" every time you want to play it back (the CNC program and a PC).

Mariss



this.......i need...............arg.........stuff i now need but can not have

[kmcwhq]

R.I.P. cnc brain....:wave:

[PEU]

their site hints at a new v2 core, nothing more... http://www.safeguardrobotics.com/

[Mariss Freimanis]

The "R.I.P." stuff is mean-spirited and isn't helpful to anyone. Try having the courage to take on a project of this scope and see how you do.:-) Projects like this run on coffee, 6AM to 2AM workdays and a nearly unshakable belief in yourself and what you are trying to do. There is little else tangible to show for your effort until it works and people are willing to pay for what you have created.

While you are working on it, you reach out to infect others with your enthusiasm. Sometimes the feedback is the only thing that keeps you carrying on while every cell in your body screams "give it up, quit, it might not work, ever". Ask me how I know about these black thoughts.:-)

Maybe Bruce bit off a little more than he could chew; picked a goal that was just out of reach for him. Maybe something external happened that stalled him. Maybe he burned out from the grinding work this goal demanded. I don't know.

I groaned when I read "Physics Engine", I know fluff when I see it and more important, I know why fluff gets tossed in the air. It's what you do when you really have no idea what to do next. Confound them with smoke when you can't think of anything else.

I talked with Bruce only once and he impressed me. Impressing me is only a part of it. Follow through is what separates the men from the boys and follow-through didn't happen. I don't know the reason but I must believe it's a good one.

Mariss

[kmcwhq]

The "R.I.P." stuff is mean-spirited

Naw....not that heavy unless you choose to spin it that way....

Just stirring the pot & hoping for an update.. :wee:

[turmite]

Here is an email I got from an inquiry I sent to Bruce a few days ago.

"Mike,
Sorry. Installed new virus protection software. Had 144 emails in the holding folder. Well, at least the sensitivity is turned up by default

Not gone away, exactly the opposite. Can see the Support guy beating up the server getting everything ready as I write this.

I'll give you a shout on Saturday.

s/Bruce"

Here is a clip from a follow up that had a bunch of personal stuff about our families, but I thought I could show this part.

" As for the Brain, we are so close to releasing.

s/Bruce"

Mariss of all the people who post on this site, I respect your opinion above most if not all others. You are truly the one who does know what Bruce bit off, and maybe even some of the pitfalls he has been through. What you may not know, is that he had sunk all his resources into this, and yes it went crazy much faster than he had expected, but remember that when he announced this, he said it was beta! Will all the resources gone, he had an opportunity to take a job with a facility just outside Knoxville, Tn. Oak something or other. There is not a man among us who would have done differently if it meant taking care of our families.

While I don't approve Bruce's lack of communication, I understand it because I have spent much time with him on the ph. Due to the fact the Brain took off so fast, he did not have the ability to manufacture product fast enough, and he needed the Brain himself to run the machines to make the Brains.....if that makes sense. Again, the Brain is not his only project, but is needed to make the other two functional, and both of them will make the Brain seem miniscule in comparison.

I am the one who posted physics engine, and I did so without him telling me to. I am sure he would not have done that. I can tell you this, if you think he was excited about the Brain, you would have thought him nuts over the further development including the physics engine statement.

When a controller can take input from the user then test the machine to failure without any further input from the user, I can see how that would be important. I don't really even know what a physics engine is, but I know this feature will benefit lots of users somewhere down the road.

I have a great need for the Brain to work right now.....not next week. With that said, I have waited this long, I am going to stick it out since I sincerely expect great things.

Mike

[kmcwhq]

Just stirring the pot & hoping for an update.. :wee:

And it worked !

Thanks T.M.

[mastercnc]

It's been months, any updates?
This is ending up just like the Grex...A big rip-off.

[Mariss Freimanis]

How were you ripped-off with the G100?

Mariss

[mastercnc]

A $500 I/O...

[Mariss Freimanis]

If it's undamaged you can always return it for a full refund of $400 which is what we sold it for.

Mariss

[mastercnc]

I sold it on ebay about a year ago and received $100 for it.
I'm sorry to vent as I did. Open mouth insert foot, or in my case...feet.
I know that you are a very reputable man and your drives are the best that money can buy.
I applaud your efforts.

Maybe Bruce will provide a return policy?