[freak_brain]

Hello All

I am going to retrofit my KM3P so I need to figure out if the viper200 drive will work with my servos. If not, what will? All the tags on the motors are not readable. I did get a model number off of one of them. It is 727-902-0768-4. I think they may be electro-craft motors???? Any help would be appreciated!!



Thank You
Allen

[freak_brain]

Hello again

After looking through some of my documentation I found the following part number for the servos. It states that it is a EC servo part number 401-4003-015. Maybe this will help.

Thanks Again
Allen

[DonnieET]

I know of two guys that used the viper 200 on hurco mills. I went the EMC2 route and used the hurco amps still working a few items.

Donnie

[freak_brain]

I know of two guys that used the viper 200 on hurco mills. I went the EMC2 route and used the hurco amps still working a few items.

Donnie

Donnie,

Thanks for your reply!!!

I am rather new at making or rebuilding CNC's but I have made 1 before with geckos and Mach3. I am not familuar with EMC2 at all!! If you have time can you explain a little of it to me? How do interface with my CMC servo drives? Without knowing me it would be difficult to answer this but I will ask anyhow, is it difficult to come up to speed with wiring and understanding the software? Any general information you have to offer would be appreciated. Also, did you happen to make a diagram of your wiring?

Thanks Again
Allen

[DonnieET]

Allen

There is a whole web site for EMC2 www.linuxcnc.org. I went the EMC2 route for cost I did not have the funds to replace the Hurco fet amps. Being the hurco amps Hurco will not provide schematic for them. Now the CMC amps you might be able to get some info on. Hurco used at least four different amps in the machines.

The easiest way to go is Mack3 and viper drives and a smooth stepper breakout board. This is my first CNC project done plenty of PLC's at work. EMC2 is a very powerful program but a little steap on the learning curve.

I'm still working on the wiring I having to figure the amp connection with no schematics. It's working but I don't like the way it disables the amps. Killing the power and waiting for the cap to bleed down is not a very good way. You still have movement for a few seconds.

Donnie

[DonnieET]

Allen

Check this out I think you have the servomate if so there is info on them 15 meg worth.

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Servomate

Donnie

[123CNC]

I went the EMC2 route with my KM3 in order to retain the well matched and working Servomate and Electrocraft servos and reduce the overall re-wiring. (And Hurco wanted a King's ransom to replace my antique motherboard, where as antique PC motherboards are a dime a dozen, or sometimes less.)

Search the EMC2 wiki and archives for info too. I'm using Mesa 5i20, a PCI interface card, and the 7i33/7i37 (4) analog servo/ I/O card (model #'s IIRC??). From the EMC2 archives found a way to use the HURCO limit switches for both limit and homing. This saved on additional hardware and rewiring as well.

The hardest part, with the very poor Hurco drawings for the relay board, I ended up having to rip it out instead of trying to trace the board.

Mesa has more cutting edge boards, 5i22 or something (I can't seem to recall anything these days) that with the newer driver (again, poor memory, HOSTMOT2??) has newer features and I think supports even more I/O. Which, unless you have a tool changer, is overkill. Overall I am very happy with EMC2, but it can be a little steep of a learning curve if this is your first venture in the Linux world. Which is an oppurtunity to expand your horizons, if you so wish.

The strong lure for me to Linux/EMC2 is the versatility and flexibility available. Which also translates to complexity. The other big bonus in my book, is in your KM3 application you retain the closed loop control back to the controller/PC and essentially are just replacing the Hurco brains.

If you want to go the Mach3 route and retain your OEM amps, you may want to look into the DSPMC/IP from Vital Systems. See the Mach 3 plugins page and search on the zone for member TotallyRC (IIRC) for good input/feedback on his trials and tribulations.

Galil may be an answer as well to interface with Mach3. But not much word on the street or buzz on this route. You findings may vary.

And one last DIY recommendation, if retaining your analog amps, you may want to look at the CNCBRAIN. No first hand experience, but I like the marketing and buzz. Downsides, or more aptly caution, is unknown user base and unknown development of Mach 3 plugin if your married to Mach. The strong sale, is double closed loop. Compare pricing on that feature and see what you think.

DonnieET,

Are using Ubuntu Hardy Heron or Dapper? What hardware interface?

[123CNC]

About your Galil 150oz servos. I think the EC servos are the G720 series (legacy). From there old catalog, the smallest are ~2.4 times the size of your Galil (biggest ~4 times). You would definitely need to gear down and maybe lose some top end speed.

But then again, the original Hurco servos on my KM3 are direct coupled, no reduction, and therefore so brutely sized. You would need to do a little more research to see what EC servos you have for sure and some calculations to see what best case reduction you could use, if at all, for your Galil motors.

Good luck.

EC legacy catlog>> http://www.electrocraft.com/files/el...aft_legacy.pdf

[123CNC]

By direct coupled, I meant 1:1 on the belt driven y and z and 'direct' flex coupling on the x. Which means you would have to modify the belt boxes to add reduction and fabricate all new for the x.

[DonnieET]

123CNC

I used Hardy Heron. Pretty steap learning curve! I have SM1 same drive setup but the hurco FET amps not servomate. Sure could use some info on the amps. Killing the AC to the power supply is not a very good way to disable the amps. You have a few seconds that the motors are still active before the DC voltage drop off.

I used the Mesa 5i23 with the 7i33/7i37 cards. If I were to do it over I would not waste the extra money on the 5i23 as the 5i20 will do all that the 5i23 can and there are others that have used 5i20. I'm finding bug in the sample hal and ini files and Hostmot2 has a few too. No fun to be one of the first to use the 5i23 with EMC2 and a newbie with Linux too.

Could you share a copy of your hal and ini files? A link to that limit & home switch articale would be a big help as I'm fighting the homing routine now. Seam hal does not like you linking a pin to more than one signal.

[123CNC]

DonnieET,

Linux/Hardy/5i23/Hostmot2, yes indeed very cutting edge.

I'm still using Dapper, just because I've had some failed attempts installing Hardy which took a surprising amount of time in trials. I will try again at a later date, when I have more time.

I will try and retrieve a backup of the HAL and ini this weekend. I also used the pyvcp for startup troubleshooting.

Yes indeed you are right about sharing pins to signals. The long and short is that you use the one signal differently dependent on function. If homing, the limit is treated as a home signal, normal operation (not homing) the same input is then treated as a travel limit. I will see if I can quickly find that info, and if no luck the ini later should help and look more this weekend.

[freak_brain]

DonnieET, 123CNC,

Thank you both for all your help!! You two rock!!!

I do have servomate (CMC) and I think you are correct about the servos. The numbering in the new catalogue is different but they physically look the same. I emailed electro-craft today and they told me those motors were "designed" for hurco and I need to call them for replacement information. I will call electro-craft and Hurco tomorrow (friday).

Update:

Today before reading your guys post I made the decision that the old stuff has to go. I took the computer cabinet apart today. I guess there's no turning back now, lol! I am still considering the EMC2 and using the servomate drives on my other KM3P (yes I have two of them) but I want to go ahead and replace it all on this one. I left all the mechanical stuff in place, limit switches, servos ect. and also left the spindle, coolant pump and rpm controll motor contacts cabinet in tact. I want to use the servos if I can run them on the vipers. And, because I am familar with Mach3 I would like to use it also for now. I am a little under the gun on my turnaround because I do have work to get done so simplicity for now is KING! My concern is more about the Vipers working with the motors than spending the money on them. Does either of you know if there would be any issue with these motors and the viper200's?

Donnie, would you happen to know what motors the two guys that used the vipers on the Hurcos have?

Thanks again guys!! I really do appreciate your help!!

Allen

[123CNC]

Freak Brain,

With a username/moniker like that, shouldn't we be coming to you? 2 KM3's, how can you go wrong. What I do like about your approach, you will have a lot of spares if you plan to retain more OEM on the 2nd one.

In the Larken forum, I think there was a guy who had a KM1 using his drives. I think Mr Larken himself made an onsite visit with him. You might want to call Larken directly to discuss the 200 and your KM3. He seems quite approachable and helpful here on the zone. Are you considering a SmoothStepper as well with your Mach 3 approach?

If you pulled the ServoMate, you will have to modify your power supply for the drives and Servos. The power cabinet on the left supplies ~63 Vac to your amps in your controls cabinet on the right. The first card of the servomate has the bridge rectifiers integrated on board and the smoothing capacitor adjacent.

DonnieET,

No luck on my quick search of the GMANE archives. Not to fear, I believe the ini is pretty self evident, when I get the time to retrieve. (Or maybe a Linux/EMC2 guru knows where the loot is buried, shared home and limit switch, modified m5i20.ini.)

While searching, you jogged my memory about E-stopping. The servomates have a hard limit disable that I had to do without. You may be able to follow a similar route. Basically you utilize the 7i33 enable inputs for each axis and tie these in to your E-stop chain. This will immediately kill the analog out to your driver and maintain that zero state when the E-stop is restored. On top of this, for safety, I also kill the power to the amps in my E-stop loop, which as you stated will slowly die. My servos and table stop immediately and I like the power-kill redundancy as well.

[freak_brain]

123CNC,

I have AOL (or maybe it way yahoo) to thank for the name freak_brain, not my higher education. Only an idiot would have the user name freak_brain, right??? It was one of those things where you put in two words and the computer generates your user name.

I do have plenty of spare parts!!! I actually got both of these machines at the same time. The one was suppose to be just for spare parts then maybe new electronics down the road. Well, got the one up and running and life was good.....until..... The board that holds the cpu (motherboards?) went out. And guess what, the one on the other was also bad. OUCH!! So I have two complete max32 setups... except for the cpu boards and one servo boards. Parts anyone? lol

As for the smoothstepper... what the heck is it? I guess it's name explains it but I have never heard of them, and I've done a lot of reading on here.

I think I will call larken today, great suggestion, ty!!!

Thank Again!!
Allen

[DonnieET]

Allen

I don't have the model # in front of me but I think there the same motors. If you have the transformer in the power cabinet all you need is a bridge rectifiers and a big cap and you are ready to connect the viper drives.

The smooth stepper is a interface that's more than just a break out board. It small processor that generates the step pulse on the smooth stepper so you run a lot faster than a PP will ever let you even with a speed demon PC. If you don't use it or somthing like it you have to limit you speed or lower the steps per inch.

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=185

If you use the Vipers be sure and pull the tack brushes out of the motors as the viper does not us the tack.

123CNC

I figured out last night that if I take the enable line from the 7i33 to the opto card that feeds the drive limits and cut the input from the limit switch and connect the enable to both opto it works just like it should. I still use the e-stop to drop out the AC that feeds the power supply.

Now to get past that homing issue:-)

Donnie

[123CNC]

DonnieET,

Note: I'm having a little trouble on the y-axis with the index signal, so homing it without for now. I also have other testing stuff commented out and should clean up after all is done, just ignore.

Hope this helps.

[123CNC]

Freak_Brain,

I guess I read it different, idiots are everywhere, therefore not very 'freakish.' The flip side, really intelligent you just don't run into every day, thus 'Freak.' Or perhaps more a 'Dr. Evil' freak brain?

Donnie's link to to cnc4pc on the SmoothStepper is a good one, and their C23 breakout with direct connection to a SS looks like a great idea. You might also want to look at the manufacturer's web page at http://www.warp9td.com.

[123CNC]

Attachments not posting,

Here's some snip-its of the related info:

From the ini:
# First axis - X
[AXIS_0]

HOME_OFFSET = -0.000
HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -0.10
HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.005
HOME_USE_INDEX = YES
HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES
MAX_OUTPUT = 5.0


From the io.hal:
# Connect limit/home switch outputs to motion controller.
#newsig Xminlim bit
newsig Xminlim-and-home bit
newsig Xmaxlim bit
#newsig Xhome bit
linksp Xminlim-and-home <= m5i20.0.in-00
linksp Xminlim-and-home => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
linksp Xmaxlim <= m5i20.0.in-01
linksp Xmaxlim => axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
#linksp Xhome <= m5i20.0.in-02
linksp Xminlim-and-home => axis.0.home-sw-in

[DonnieET]

123CNC

Thanks! I think I see what I'm doing wrong will check it tomorrow.

Donnie

[Larken]

Donnie, would you happen to know what motors the two guys that used the vipers on the Hurcos have?

I'm pretty sure both guys have them running now. I know they are running at 85-90 volts into those servo's rated at 45 volts with no problems.

A lot of guys are retrofitting those Hurco mills, it seems more than other types. I guess there are a lot of Hurco's out there with Bridgeports second.