[slammedxonair]

This is a good thread, we should keep it going. I'm still trying to fine tune my pricing tiers (wholesale and retail) Mainly retail though. But I do start out by doubling My materials cost as well. Does anybody else have other ways of calculating pricing?

[Dustin407]

Does anybody else have other ways of calculating pricing?

I think their is another aspect to take into consideration on pricing that I dont think has been discussed. Competition... I think you could up the prices a little if you are running a cnc monopoly in that area.....30 miles.. EX: They have many router tables around where I live, 10 years ago I think they had two. Today they are competing with each other and to do that the prices drop to get work.. Now their is over 15 cnc routers in a 20 mile radious. Today, the average price is $90 an hour(cut time). Five years ago they had about 6 cnc routers and the price was $125 an hour... Not only did the price drop, they cut 1/4 of the quantity they use too... That is a major loss in itself.

[jimcolt]

Another pricing factor is in the focus of the product you are cutting. If you are cutting metal art....often a higher price can be demanded as opposed to cutting leveling plates for a structural steel job.

It is important to know...as a shop owner or manager...your real cutting costs in order to maintain margins that will kep you in business. It is also important to know the value of the parts you are cutting as well.

Plasma is usually billed at between $60 and $100 per hour.....cheaper than laser and waterjet....yet often with much higher productivity (laser can be faster on thinner materials...less than 3/16"). So if you cut more parts per hour....you can actually make as much or more money with plasma as opposed to laser or waterjet...assuming cut part accuracies are withing the needs of the customer.

Jim

[Edwardo]

I was fortunate yesterday to take a tour of a steel fab shop ( thanks Greg ), i met the fellow here on the zone and i am buying my steel from them now. I was amazed at the size and magnitude of there operations, it was like a trip to Disney Land for me.... it made my Dynatorch look awfully small when i got home. It also made me relise that i am no threat to these large companies and vice versa, i may be able to cut for a lower price out of my garage, but i could never produce the size/quantity/quality they are. My niche is going to be metal art or 1 off custom cut parts for the general public and that is where i have to focus for now, over time if i design and produce something that sells, so be it.
That being said, i cant see a large company delaying or halting a production run to cut out a welcome sign or garden stake using hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of machinery, where as i can... so everyone has there place in the grand scheme of things, you just have keep looking and trying different things to find it.

Regards
EDD
www.graphxiron.com

[planebuilder]

Does anyone have an operating cost comparison (per minute or inch) between OA and plasma? Is the electricity consumed by plasma close in cost per inch of OA gas?
I am considering a Hypertherm 1250 but am getting the idea that it may not be as efficient over 1/2". Therefore should I get a smaller plasma unit and stick to OA above 1/2"????

[jimcolt]

Check out the info on the attached link....it is on Hypertherm's website. Good comparison between oxy-fuel and plasma....speed, cut costs and material thickness and types are discussed.

http://www.hypertherm.com/en/Informa...fuel/index.jsp

Jim Colt

[millman52]

The HT1250 info should be really close on those charts. There is a point in there somewhere that O/A becomes more effitient again. Your big savings is in time avalible to make more billable parts.

[WSS]

JIm,
Regarding the link, One word sums it up for us oxy/fuel diehards: WOW! I see the production advantage clearly. That is really all that matters in the long run. Do the hypertherm power supplies have the "power factor correction" caps in place? I installed a old PFC on our 3ph input and it saves us roughly $125 a month. That helps a bunch!

[hrfab]

friends, try my calculator.
is working fine for me.
designed for powermax45
send feedback or comments.
thx.
[email protected]

[jimcolt]

Power factor correction was necessary on older technology power supplies (transformer type power supplies) for welding and plasma cutting equipment. This was a bank of large oil filled capacitors that improved the efficiency of the power supplies when operating at different current levels.

Todays inverter based power supplies are of a much more efficient design....with power in to power out rations of 90 to 95% (older systems mentioned above could be as low as 60 to 70%). At Hypertherm we work very hard in the power supply design phase to ensure reliability and efficiency with our systems.

Jim

[hrfab]

plasma calculator
help me to build this aplication. is in xls format.
next i will make it java or something.

thx.

[WSS]

Jim, i suspected the hypertherm I purchased is a inverter power supply. When talking about the shipping i noticed it was 175lbs but can sever 1.75"! A lot of punch for a small package. A friend of mine converted all of his Millers to the XMT inverter power supplies. His electric bill was cut by a third! In so cal we get hit hard with "demand" penalties. The inverter is flat and in sync with the electric company and can hardly be seen by the meter. He can have three or four running (can't really say starting) at the same time and not see any spike. I look forward to trying out our new 1650, it will ship on July the 2nd. I already have some projects for it with our mag shape cutter.

Cheers!

[Tig Artist]

torch heads post number 5 is spot on! don't insult the guy with telling them the art fee is this and the that is this price. Gawd when you do that **** it just pisses them off. A good plas cutter can figure the square footage x gauge, plus a multiplier for intracacy, plus a pierce charge , dammened near in his head. don't insult the guy with 4 different fees just give him the dammed price. And what ever you do don't have a line item called shop supplies. I refuse to do business with any dip**** that is stupid enough to have shop supplies as a line item.

[Torchhead]

When you walk into a bakery and want to buy a cake you don't want to get an itemized quote. How much flour, sugar and eggs. You don't want an "egg" adder because the chickens are too hot to lay. You don't want the baker to run back to his office where you see him punching in numbers or running a pricing program.

If you don't have a pretty good grip on what it costs to turn out a job (even approx how long it will take) then you need to do more hands on production. With decorative cutting (selling to individuals) you have a very short span to close the order and get the deposit. Most of the buying is impulse (meaning they don't need it to survive) so if they walk out the door without ordering you probably will never see them again.

Never, ever do a custom job without a deposit that will at least pay for the time and material. They only time I did that and was dead sure they would pay me when they picked it up, I ended up with a totally custom mailbox hanger and sign. I used it on a store display and hoped they would someday eat there and feel a little shame (:-)

For job shops it's different. You may have to know were your break even point is just so you won't lose money. It's like being at an auction, but in reverse! Sometimes the most profitable deal you have is one you walk away from. That does not mean you can't be flexible but if you drop your shorts too much you will be expected to do it every time. You will lose jobs to someone that does not know the value of their services. Often you will get another shot (at your price) when the low bidder is slow, has bad quality or just plain fails to deliver.

It's kinda like when I was consulting. I could charge the customer extra hours but they would scream if I added in travel time, even at a reduced rate. I could charge actual travel costs but the though of paying me to ride in a plane irked them. We had a rule that you get the first set of artwork free and one round of changes. If you started changing things after that we started with the fees. I have only had one customer that run up artwork fees. They changed the design 4 times, at one point starting completely over.

TOM Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[slammedxonair]

plasma calculator
help me to build this aplication. is in xls format.
next i will make it java or something.

thx.

I would deffinatly be interested in seeing somthing become of this. Theres alot of sign calculators for vinyl and wood sign shops but nothing really for plasma tables.

[slammedxonair]

bump I think we should keep this going!

[slammedxonair]

Hey everybody, I have to quote a job for somebody and I've never cut 3/8 material before. Actually most of the stuff I make is sold for the average market value depending on the item. Basically its a 3/8" plate and will be a 7" diameter circle with 9, 0.75" holes inside of it, these holes will need to accept bolts. What kind of cut settings would you suggest? I have a hypertherm 1250 and am thinking running a 60 amp torch setup for best accuracy? What cutting offset do you reccomend? And what kind of price would you be at? Thanks everybody oh yea and my material cost is $0.088 per square inch..

[plasmapunk]

I did the math, but I already knew the answer.
If I were asked to cut one 7" circle with the nine .75 holes it would cost $50. However, I would also cut 5 pc. for $53. I have a $50 low volume setup fee to help stop the "can you cut one of these" shoppers down.

If the part is to be made from material I cut regularly and they can wait until I am running that material the cost will come down.

The thing I keep in mind can someone else make that part in there garage without allot of trouble? Sure they can drill .75 holes in .375 plate, that wouldn't take that long. But the 7" circle is another story. Many ways to do that, jigsaw with lots of sanding to make it look good. Torch with a circle cutter but if they had that they wouldn't be talking to you would they. Lathe, if they have that skill and equipment they also wouldn't be talking to you.

I find that most are willing to pay the $50.

[slammedxonair]

yea I actually told him $50 shipped. I've worked with him on stuff in the past I thought he just needed one as a protype but when I quoted him he said its something hes gona actually try and sell. He said he machined the prototype allready and is looking into producing them so I gotta wait for quantity now. I also spend the day yesterday making a plasma pricing application. So I wont have to worry about tedious stuff anymore lol.

[tulsaturbo]

What do you guys think of multiplying [thickness] x [width] x [length] x [cost per square inch] as far as for just calculating only cutting cost to quote a customer. I think this would standardize the process. I'm currently working on including the material into the calculation as well...