[aaron p]

I work for a massivly huge oil field service tools company that has about 33,500 people world wide. I work 2nd shift in a big production machine shop running a 5axis mazak E-410. Just frustrated with people that are soo damn narrow minded in the shop and wont listen to any of my ideas. Just like my post about Sandvik R390 milling inserts weather or not to run coolant on them. I told the guys in the shop to run AIR only and their response was "well, we have been doing it like this for years!". I tried to explain about thermal shock and such and nobody wanted to listen. This isnt 1985 anymore and the top notch tooling we have is being used like its a antique. I guess my production numbers will show the real story. They were wondering how I was running 4 parts a shift to their 3. I trippled the feed rate on ruffing opps, and blew threw that 20-22RkC 4140 like it was butter. I might just be 24, but ive been hardcore into machining since I was about 17. Just really tired of all the red tape, but I cant leave b/c A. theres nobody hiring, and B. they pay very well. Hell, I even got a few engineers to change some tollerances on prints so that manufacturing would be easier and less prone to scrap parts. Guess im the odd ball machinist working with a bunch of button pushers and could care less about their job as long as the check clears. Sorry for the rant, just at my wits end with people! Dont even get me started on 3rd shift. Need to have my own shop, and just do stuff right. I learned CNC working for little money $9/hr on titanium and inconnel holding tenths tollerances on stuff. Kinda glad I learned on the hard stuff, but still have alot to learn as we all do. Anyone else work in a red-tape infested company? At times I think I should have become a engineer.

[tobyaxis]

Not to invade your venting but improper tool usage is very common in shops that have uneducated employees. Be happy that the guys you work with are stuck in 1985 because a vast majority (least amount found here on the zone) are stuck in 1965.

I see and feel the same frustrations in the shops in this area. What is worse is when you go to work and just do your job and wind up machining things faster and with better results only to wind up being the "Odd Ball".

Look at it this way. If you ever open your own shop this will be a good thing. You will know the products, the cycle times they get vs yours, and the education level which is there. These things can be to your advantage.

Write down your thoughts and ideas and if they don't want to hear them it's their loss.

Being here show your willingness to share and learn. These are the qualities that shops should be looking for, not uneducated sticks that are stuck in 1985.

Cheers

[aaron p]

I agree with you Toby. It sucks working in manufacturing when your always making the same parts 90% of the time. Its funny how the engineers always come ask me questions about a fixture design or something and dont bother with the other guys. Having a engineer tell me "good idea or that sounds really good" is a huge compliment to me in my eyes. I get a good feeling when something good is accomplished and it really works in reality, not just on paper. The "hammerhead" mentality is prevelant in my shop also. I live by the saying "work smart, not hard".

[tobyaxis]

Well I have to say that I have been in the same boat with Engineering and yes it feels good, but make dam sure it is recognized when it is raise time. The last place I resigned from made false promises of positions and promotions for 9 months. The results should have been expected but oh well.

A good word is nice but won't pay the bills. If they mention promotions or raises, get it in writing.

Sorry if I seem brash or unreasonable but that is business.

Now I do side work full time working for various firms and friends shops. It beats punching a clock and someone else taking the credit for your hard work. They can do what ever they want after I get paid as long as I get paid.

LOL Dunn&BradStreet says weather I do business with a company or not. Got to love technology!

http://www.dnb.com/us/

[aaron p]

Well I have to say that I have been in the same boat with Engineering and yes it feels good, but make dam sure it is recognized when it is raise time. The last place I resigned from made false promises of positions and promotions for 9 months. The results should have been expected but oh well.

A good word is nice but won't pay the bills. If they mention promotions or raises, get it in writing.

Sorry if I seem brash or unreasonable but that is business.

Now I do side work full time working for various firms and friends shops. It beats punching a clock and someone else taking the credit for your hard work. They can do what ever they want after I get paid as long as I get paid.

LOL Dunn&BradStreet says weather I do business with a company or not. Got to love technology!

http://www.dnb.com/us/

thats a handy little link.
Man, this site needs a chat room.

[tobyaxis]

thats a handy little link.
Man, this site needs a chat room.

I believe it still does but I never used it. Correction, it used too. There is a Blog area though, but I never use that either. Have to type too fast, LOL

[aaron p]

bummer. chat rooms are always good.

[SumDumPhuckr]

The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones.

John Maynard Keynes

[aaron p]

The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones.

John Maynard Keynes

Old Habbits Die Hard.

[tobyaxis]

Old Habbits Die Hard.

It depends on how open minded a person is, and if they strive to stay current.

This will decide weather you move forward or get left behind.

[dertsap]

almost everywhere you go you will find they each have their own idea of how things should be done , clearly if they are in business and making money then they must be doing something right , and this tends to be the reason that most companies are slow at trying new things , every new guy says "this isnt the way we did it at the last place" , ive worked with a number of hot shots( not suggesting anyone here is) over the years who thought they would come in and run the shop their way , well , it doesnt work like that and when companies face this on a regular basis then maybe it would appear a little more obvious why they are reluctant to try new things , especially if theyve tryed new things that guys have suggested and they failed ,or guys will begin implementing new things then leave in the middle of it all .
its a matter of being in the company for a while and gaining the respect from you peers and the management above , changes come in steps and won't happen over night . and if they dont then we have to bite our tongue and do the job or move on . at the end of the day we are there to provide a service then come home

as far as the tooling thing goes , talk to the sandvik rep and ask him to provide a brief tooling seminar for you and your coworkers , any company would be a fool not to accept educating their employees for free , and it should set a few things straight

[apache405]

At times I think I should have become a engineer.

I'm stuck in engineering school, majoring in electrical.

(begin rant about my engineering school)

You will find the following: in your classes of say 50-100 people, only about 10 (most times less) who have actually built anything, ever!!

I'm gonna assume that you major in manufacturing engineering or mechanical engineering. with what you know now, you will coast through your design and lab classes and be "god" to everyone else in your classes, and if you're anything like me, you will absolutely hate doing the theory and making detailed calculations.

(end of rant)

that being said, you will most likely get a much better job during and after 4-5 of getting B.S.'d to dead in engineering school.

i start asking the engineering ppl where they went to school and then find out how to get the company to pay for the upgrading of your education. then transfer to engineering. you'll trade building for designing.

[tobyaxis]

I'm stuck in engineering school, majoring in electrical.

(begin rant about my engineering school)

You will find the following: in your classes of say 50-100 people, only about 10 (most times less) who have actually built anything, ever!!

I'm gonna assume that you major in manufacturing engineering or mechanical engineering. with what you know now, you will coast through your design and lab classes and be "god" to everyone else in your classes, and if you're anything like me, you will absolutely hate doing the theory and making detailed calculations.

(end of rant)

that being said, you will most likely get a much better job during and after 4-5 of getting B.S.'d to dead in engineering school.

i start asking the engineering ppl where they went to school and then find out how to get the company to pay for the upgrading of your education. then transfer to engineering. you'll trade building for designing.

Jeff,

I can honestly say that 90% of us seasoned machinists already Design, Prototype, and Machine without a degree. We may not work in Engineering but we do a lot of the work needed to make it actually happen. We even Solid Model and do Assembly Design.

No Pun intended but a lot of us even design our own Tools and Products that work better and last longer than what is designed by the Engineers of today. Today an engineers job is to make things CHEAP IMPO.

Granted mathematics is needed when safety is an issue but basic knowledge and strengths of materials per application is too.

Don't get me wrong because without the collective information between Engineers and Machinists the Machinery's Handbook wouldn't exist. I have a high amount of respect for engineers that want to be good at what they do. I just hope your one of them.

Cheers!!!

[apache405]

Jeff,

I can honestly say that 90% of us seasoned machinists already Design, Prototype, and Machine without a degree. We may not work in Engineering but we do a lot of the work needed to make it actually happen. We even Solid Model and do Assembly Design.

No Pun intended but a lot of us even design our own Tools and Products that work better and last longer than what is designed by the Engineers of today. Today an engineers job is to make things CHEAP IMPO.

Granted mathematics is needed when safety is an issue but basic knowledge and strengths of materials per application is too.

Don't get me wrong because without the collective information between Engineers and Machinists the Machinery's Handbook wouldn't exist. I have a high amount of respect for engineers that want to be good at what they do. I just hope your one of them.

Cheers!!!

I'd like to think I am, but only time will tell.

tobyaxis, you pulled the gist of what I was thinking, but failed to articulate in my last post.

Honestly, I am ashamed at what "engineering" has become due to the injection of bean counters and other non-technical people who think ROI is how fast they can make a buck then leave (the company and hang the customer out to dry). I also think the whole shift in education away from practical classes to all theory based classes (math and science) is also to blame. According to some of the 4th year and graduate mechanical and structural engineers I have talked to, I have more experience in CAD, design and building things than the vast majority of the graduating engineers (both mechanical and electrical). People nowadays are too focused on test scores and GPA.

Is it me or is something wrong here?

I suppose I should stop hijacking aaron p's thread.

[tobyaxis]

Is it me or is something wrong here?

I suppose I should stop hijacking aaron p's thread.

It's not you at all. It is the way that companies do business.

Look back at some of the achievements this country made in the 60's. We put a Man On the Moon.

What have we done since then???

Faster PC's at affordable prices????

You are not the problem and there is something terribly wrong with the way things are today. Greed will be our undoing.

The fact that the US doesn't manufacture enough today will not only hurt us but everyone else as well. Look at what is happening to Canada.

This may be the worst Depression anyone ever sees IMPO, worse than the 20's and it may last for decades.

We need more Engineers, Doctors, and Machinists. Above all I feel that we need to re-educate those that are stuck in the past to bring them up to date for a better tomorrow.

You said that you don't know if your going to be any good.

Here is a little advise. Do your best and be Best the best you can. That is the best any one of us can do.

We all start by taking a good look in the mirror and make changes for the better.

BTW: I have seen people with a 4.0 GPA try to put pennies in a pay phone. LOL, what does that say for GPA's

Your here to learn, and that is a step in the right direction and I am sure you will be a very good engineer.

[apache405]

BTW: I have seen people with a 4.0 GPA try to put pennies in a pay phone. LOL, what does that say for GPA's

Your here to learn, and that is a step in the right direction and I am sure you will be a very good engineer.

I know exactly what you mean. I work at my campus's computer help desk. I've had people call in in tears that they have been knocked off their computer accounts and they have some midterm to study for and *need* to have their account back. I looked them up and they got suspended for not paying their fees for like 4 months! It's like how in the (four letter word of your choice) get admitted to a UC and not check on your bills? But I digress from machining.

[tobyaxis]

I know exactly what you mean. I work at my campus's computer help desk. I've had people call in in tears that they have been knocked off their computer accounts and they have some midterm to study for and *need* to have their account back. I looked them up and they got suspended for not paying their fees for like 4 months! It's like how in the (four letter word of your choice) get admitted to a UC and not check on your bills? But I digress from machining.

Maybe too many parties, LOL. You know you have to have a Chug Account at College.

Maybe they made a mistake and paid the wrong account, and made the same mistake in the check book. You never know.

:cheers:

[apache405]

LOL!!!!!!! within reason yes.

[tobyaxis]

LOL!!!!!!! within reason yes.

60% Education
40% Fun!!!

[apache405]

60% Education
40% Fun!!!

That holds true unless you love what you do and do what you love, in which case:

Ideally:
100%fun

Realistically:
60% paperwork
39% pleading for money (aka ass kissing)
1% fun