[underthetire]

AAA, barfeeder. It may have a toggle switch inside the electrical cabinet for a b/f. if not, you need to find the spindle inhibit line and jumper it back. They used to use spindle inhibit if the barfeeder was not clamped in to position.

[damae]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far - I took a closer look at the details inside the two electrical cabinets and noticed a few conspicuous details:

1. Two wires, labeled N3 and 190 were disconnected. Perhaps they loosened in the 160 mile journey from Seattle. Or maybe they're related to the bar feeder and were disconnected when the bar feeder was removed. I've read through the manuals and drawings thoroughly and can't see any reference to wire #190.

2. There is an external cable that was cut off flush where it exits the cabinet. It's obvious that it was not a factory wire and was added by the machine shop. Tracing it through the power cabinet and into the control cabinet, I found it terminates in a DB25 connector. My guess - this is a RS232 cable that was used for programming.

3. There are four large transformers ... and indeed they have taps for 200v, 208v, 220v, 240v! I don't know why I didn't pay attention to them before now. Currently, they're all tapped at 200v, although I've been running 240-260v into it! Obviously I want to switch this over as soon as possible. The voltage regulators are doing their jobs, but they can't last forever with that kind of abuse. =)

4. The spindle drive likely doesn't care what order the phases are hooked up. In the Versadrive manual, I read that it has "full three-phase rectification," which can only mean that it operates much like its modern VFD counterpart.

I'm going to reset the taps, hook up the N3/190 wires and give it another try. I'll report back, come sparks or success.

[damae]

I worked on it again tonight and was able to switch all the taps to 240v. It's very easy - the inputs are very clearly labeled.

I also reconnected wires N3 and #190.

Still no spindle action. No sparks or fire, but no spindle either.

I also watched the spindle drive and none of the error lights are lit. The only LED lit is labeled something like "speed match." I tried using the reset button, but it didn't change anything.

To start the spindle, I'm pushing the FWD or REV buttons while in manual mode, with the chuck clamp on (tried both internal and external chucking). Using MDI is still a bit mysterious to me, although I was able to enter the M3 S1000 code by hitting the "WR" button after each. Not sure if that is the correct button. When I hit the "Cycle Start" button, the "Buffer" LED lights up, but nothing happens. Am I doing it wrong?

Another curious light on the control panel is "Label Skip." It's always lit, and I can't clear it. Does anyone know what the "Label Skip" light is telling me?

If I need to, it looks like I could replace the spindle drive with an off-the-shelf VFD. The Versadrive is commanded with a +/-10v signal and has just a handfull of error lines out, which I think are just TTL. Has anyone done this successfully?

[Waynno]

I would still continue to troubleshoot your current drive for the moment if there
is no alarm codes present.

It still sounds like something is inhibiting the drive to operate, Could be
a bar feeder interface or just not getting the chuck clamp signal.

Something that may sound silly to some here....Try tapping the board
lightly with a plastic object on the drive board where the smaller wire terminal block is.

Can you post a picture of the spindle drive?

There are a couple of sealed relays that may be getting fussy, sometimes
giving them a little wake up call via a small tap can jump them alive

I did a drive retrofit, its not a bolt in, Plug a few wires together proposition.

Its time consuming and may cost more than the machine is worth in the long run.

Newer drives require a new encoder as opposed to old tach generator
to keep track of speed and orientation.

Otherwise, There are options to jump the interfaces that inhibit the drive to start
at the terminal block to figure out what is not giving it a go signal

Wayne
Mori Sieki Underground
http://nosala.com/phpBB2/

[damae]

Thanks again for the help!

A stuck relay seems possible considering the age of the machine. After tapping the relays, still no spin. I took thorough photos of the insides of the control cabinets during lunch today and will post them later - perhaps someone will spot something that I missed.

Spindle inhibit from a barfeed interface seems very possible to me, considering the lack of warning lights. Where would I find a barfeed interface if it were present?

[damae]

Alright, I have photos of both cabinets on the rear of my SL-1A. The left cabinet contains the controls (Yasnac computer, servo drives, power supply) and the right cabinet contains everything else (spindle drive, most of the relays and main disconnect).

I can identify most of what's in the cabinet, but am still at a loss to figure out where a barfeed interface would be located. Please also feel free to point out anything that looks suspicious.

Images:
1. Rear view of the lathe showing both cabinets.
2. View into the control cabinet.
3. Diagram posted on the inside of the right door in the control cabinet.
4. A db25 connector that was modified post-factory. The other end of this cable was routed up and out of the lathe and was cut when the machine was taken out of service.

[damae]

Photos from inside the control cabinet continued:

1. DC Power Supply
2. Transformers (view 1)
3. Transformers (view 2)
4 . Yaskawa Servo Drives
5. Yasnac computer (front view, inside left door)
6. Yasnac computer (view from slightly above)

[damae]

1-5: Various views inside the power cabinet
6. Inside the left door
7. Inside the right door

[damae]

1. Front view of the Varispeed 626MT drive made by Yaskawa
2. Same front view with plastic cover removed
3. Diagram inside the Varispeed
4. 200v - 220v switch inside the Varispeed
5. View showing the Varispeed door swung open
6. View showing the Varispeed door swung open

[JHCHOPPERS]

There's also an Option C: Tear down and retrofit.

This has my vote ! Use some pixies P100s for the X and Z axis (same servos and amplifiers), a VFD for the spindle and Mach3 for the Brains ? Sell the old electronics and break even...

[damae]

This has my vote ! Use some pixies P100s for the X and Z axis (same servos and amplifiers), a VFD for the spindle and Mach3 for the Brains ? Sell the old electronics and break even...

No doubt, a ground-up retrofit with Mach would be nice... and I plan to do that on the second SL-1. But for the Sl-1H, I am still hoping to get the spindle going - it's a lot cheaper and I can make parts now! =)

Looking into the pixies, I see that they are discontinued, according to a notice on at http://www.skyko.com/

[damae]

Would a barfeeder interface thorugh the RS232 port? I have a closeup posted among the pictures...

[JHCHOPPERS]

Looking into the pixies, I see that they are discontinued, according to a notice on at http://www.skyko.com/

Yes they are, I have 3 on my BP CNC Mill and they work great. But I think there are some other alternatives however to the P100s.

Or you could change out the Servo Amplifiers completely and go with something like a Dugong(160VDC 35A). Then your rotary phase converter could be smaller and more use less power just needed for the Spindle

http://www.shop.cncdrive.com/index.php?productID=166

BTW: I have tried the smaller Whale3 and liked it performance (80VDC 20A), very quite and easy to tune with software thats provided via a USB port, I have a DuGong on ordor to evail for a BP VMC Conversion

[kek_63]

Your lathe doesn't appear to have a barfeeder interface. Mine has a couple more rows of relays on the right power cabinet door and a 16 pin round plug labelled "BARFEEDER" above the conduits to the hydraulic servos.

I'll try to take some pics tonight.

Keith

[nlh]

damae,

Have you made any progress?

Somethings that come to mind that should be checked, if you haven't already, are the relays and contactors. Further back in this thread I posted a wiring diagram for an SL-3. Essentially they have the same basic wiring, although the SL-3 has provisions for a chip conveyor, gear box, etc. Things that you won't find on the SL-1.

On post #46, look at the second picture. On the door, at the bottom is a long board with only relay's. Comparing these relays to the ones you can find on the diagram you should be able to pinpoint which relays control the spindle. I can't remember for sure without looking at my machine, but I believe a couple of these relays control forward and reverse by tripping larger contactors located beside the spindle drive itself. Try pulling them out one by one and reseating them, in moving one may have pulled out of the socket slightly. I had this happen once, machine would not power up, although it did at previous location. A relay had dropped out during moving.

Also, once you figure out which relays do what, try swapping one for another making sure that the numbers on the relays are the same. I believe there are several different types of this board, and they are not the same internally!

In my experience, if a relay isn't working properly, you will not get an alarm, but you have a newer control than mine, things are probably different.

Hope this helps, post back with what you find out.

[damae]

Thanks for all the additional help guys!

I just arrived in Hong Kong tonight and won't be returning until the first week of December, but before I left, I went through the cabinets and carefully tapped, hoping to free a stuck relay. It didn't help, but I think it's the next logical step to remove and re-plug all the relays, one-by-one.

It's possible I was wrong about the barfeeder. When I arrived to pick up the lathes, they had both been moved from their original spot - the entire machine shop was moving to a new building and they needed these out of the way. So by the time I saw them, the barfeeders were in another room. I'll look at my other SL when I get home, maybe it's the one with the barfeeder interface.

All I can do from here is study the Varispeed service manual and decide where i would jumper the "run" command, which will be my next experiment after trying to jostle the relays.

[underthetire]

Would a barfeeder interface thorugh the RS232 port? I have a closeup posted among the pictures...

Simple answer...No.

I would continue to troubleshoot the drive myself. I think you are missing something. Could be as simple as the spindle stop button. Maybe they tied that through the B/F, but I would bet it has to do with the b/f interface.

[Waynno]

4th attemt Trying to post a reply here,

Ok
The following is a scan of the hook up of that drive

Always possable sombody has fiddled with the hook up on the drive

It may take some zoom in , or zoom out depending on your browser

I would start troubleshoot at 32,33 spot on terminal block on drive
see if there is a dc voltage there 0-10v command for speed.

Upon spindle reverse, polarity will reverse negetive 0-10v

test with DVOM while assistant turns on spindle manually

Be carefull Working in high voltage cabinet

Work your way 1,6,20,35 make sure they are all tied together
Dont be afraid to carefully cut a few zip ties to follow the wires, they
are easy to replace

Then see if there is a +12v on 37 on spindle start,

May want to check to see if 44,45 are clamped, if machine thinks
spindle zero speed is not in agreement, it will not start

Also set DVOM to high AC volt to see if there is even 3 phase
power to the unit at RST...again carfull of high voltage

In looking at your pic, Again those little silver square things are
mechanical relays. The service techs must love when those fail
cause they make quite a small fortune to swap one out and hand
you a so called "rebuilt board"

Wayne

[Waynno]

On post #46, look at the second picture. On the door, at the bottom is a long board with only relay's. Comparing these relays to the ones you can find on the diagram you should be able to pinpoint which relays control the spindle. I can't remember for sure without looking at my machine, but I believe a couple of these relays control forward and reverse by tripping larger contactors located beside the spindle drive itself. Try pulling them out one by one and reseating them, in moving one may have pulled out of the socket slightly. I had this happen once, machine would not power up, although it did at previous location. A relay had dropped out during moving.

Nada

These drives are very simplistic, No contactors are used to start or reverse spindle motor

There is a main contactor breaker unit in the opposing box for overload protection and
ONLY cycles on upon start up, But if there was a problem with that particular contactor, the
machine would alarm out and servos would not kick on

Your key statement

I had this happen once, machine would not power up,

Damae has indicated all the other functions of the machine are a go, Like servo movment

Test for that contactor would be do a high voltage check (240 3p) at the drive RST
connections as shown on attached schematic, At the drive unit past that contactor

Otherwise, Im sure there is a very simple problem that is not giving the drive a Go signal

Wayne

[damae]

Wayneo, thanks for the schematic and very specific points to test!

I'm with you guys -- it's got to be something simple. It'll be another week before I'm home again, but as a consolation, I will be visiting our factory's tooling shop today - it always cheers me up to see a massive VMC hogging out a block of steel =) Or if no jobs are running, to walk up the stepladder onto the bed. (hope those safeties aren't disabled!)

By the way, did I mention that I'm in a friendly competition with my buddy who bought a Hitachi Seiki CNC lathe? The contest is: first person to turn a part under CNC control wins. At the moment, I'm winning, because he doesn't have his phase converter installed yet. But he has the advantage of having seen his machine under power before it was moved.