[damae]

... think you are missing something. Could be as simple as the spindle stop button. ...

That's another good point. I'll be opening the control panel and checking the operation of the switches, since they seem a bit gummed up.

A similar thing happened on my reset button - it wouldnt' work until I removed the button and cleaned the carbon contact. The membrane panel had broken and worn away on the reset button, so dirt (oil) was accumulating on the metal traces on the PCB.

[Waynno]

That's another good point. I'll be opening the control panel and checking the operation of the switches, since they seem a bit gummed up.

A similar thing happened on my reset button - it wouldnt' work until I removed the button and cleaned the carbon contact. The membrane panel had broken and worn away on the reset button, so dirt (oil) was accumulating on the metal traces on the PCB.

Its very simple to check all control buttons and switches
using the diagnostic page without opening the front panal up

Post here when you get back I can run you though the routine

Wayne

[damae]

Man am I glad to be back in town! Can't wait to start again on the spindle =)

[JHCHOPPERS]

Glad your back, this thread was getting slow. Get that spindle turning !

JH

[damae]

37: no voltage (spindle start, should be +12)
23-23: no voltage (spindle speed +/- 0-10v)

1,6,20,35: Have continuity
44-45: closed (zero speed)
47-48: open (speed agreement)

To me it seems the problem is in the Yasnac control - it's not sending a run signal.

While poking around, I turned up an error 26 (spindle error). It's possible I tied two wrong pins together while doing continuity checks and caused the error.

I also checked the switches manually, with the machine off. All spindle buttons are wired NO and operate fine electrically.

I think it's time to hotwire the drive, manually giving it a +12v "run" signal and generating my own 0-10v signal. Any objections? Will this confuse the control, since the spindle is running when it's not supposed to?

[damae]

Another possible cause - the autolube was taken off this machine, leaving 5 disconnected wires.

Could it be that three of these wires are for single-phase power to run the lube motor and the remaining two are a "low lubricant" alarm signal? If that's the case, I wonder why it doesn't trigger any sort of alarm.

What do you guys think?

Edit: The lube pump uses 4 wires - it's three-phase, according to my schematics. I'm still unsure if the remaining wire could be an alarm for "low lubricant."

[Waynno]

37: no voltage (spindle start, should be +12)
23-23: no voltage (spindle speed +/- 0-10v)

1,6,20,35: Have continuity
44-45: closed (zero speed)
47-48: open (speed agreement)

To me it seems the problem is in the Yasnac control - it's not sending a run signal.

While poking around, I turned up an error 26 (spindle error). It's possible I tied two wrong pins together while doing continuity checks and caused the error.

I also checked the switches manually, with the machine off. All spindle buttons are wired NO and operate fine electrically.

I think it's time to hotwire the drive, manually giving it a +12v "run" signal and generating my own 0-10v signal. Any objections? Will this confuse the control, since the spindle is running when it's not supposed to?

Sounds like you are making progress narrowing down what is not working

Maybe a control issue

See if there is +12v preasant on 6,1,20,35

I would say yes on your test.

Disconnect terminal 37, and feed it +12v from one of
those if 12v is present possibly via alligator clip jumper

Disconnect terminals 32,33 , Feed it maybe with a AA battery. just tap
it to see the spindle reacts, I have seen these run away.
Can get your attention real quick, be ready to quickly shut down

Another thing I dont recall mentioned, go though and push all
the red breaker resets in the drive cabinet.

Wayne

[damae]

Good news - the spindle is alive!

I wired a switch between +12v and pin 37 (RUN), but left pins 32,33 wired as original. If that didn't work, I would have continued on to wire a voltage supply to those pins. Fortunately, I got the spindle running just by enabling #37.

Interestingly, you can't turn the spindle off just by removing +12v from the RUN (37) line. Momentary contact enables the circuit and after that, the drive ignores #37 apparently!

Back at the control panel, all of the spindle controls were working normally, as I would expect them to. I was able to change speed manually and stop, although I didn't try reverse yet.

So the good news is that my spindle drive, motor, and spindle itself are all in working order. The bad news is that I still don't know why the control isn't enabling the spindle drive on pin 37. It seems I've already checked the obvious. What else could it be? I'll have to sleep on that one.

[Waynno]

Pretty cool you got it to start

Does the speed change via the rotary knob on panal?

Next step maybe print out the following parameters and compare
to what is loaded in your control

SL-1 B H
YASNAC 2000 GII CONTROL
5000 MAX RPM
8 STATION TURRET


N1X0
N2X1
N3X1
N4X0
N5X0
N6X10
N7X0
N8X0
N9X1
N10X0Z0I0K0
N11X0Z0I0K0
N12X0Z0I0K0
N13X0Z0I0K0
N14X0Z0I0K0
N15X0Z0I0K0
N16X0Z0I0K0
N17X0Z0I0K0
N18X0Z0I0K0
N19X0Z0I0K0
N20X0Z0I0K0
N21X0Z0I0K0
N22X0Z0I0K0
N23X0Z0I0K0
N24X0Z0I0K0
N25X0Z0I0K0
N26X0Z0I0K0
N27X0Z0I0K0
N28X0Z0I0K0
N29X0Z0I0K0
N30X78500Z59800I0K0
N31X-6500Z-215200I0K0
N32X0Z0I0K0
N33X0Z0I0K0
N34X0Z0I0K1
N35X0Z0I0K0
N36X53Z107I4K4
N37X0Z0I22K0
N38X0Z0I2K34
N39X8191Z565367I132K196
N40X8
N41X1
N42X0
N43X0
N44X2
N45X0
N46X0
N47X0
N48X0Z0I0K0
N49X12004Z1I4K0
N50X15
N51X4
N52X25
N53X50
N54X25
N55X0
N56X0
N57X6
N58X1Z0I0K0
N59X3Z54734I0K0
N60X0Z0I0K0
N61X1Z0I0K0
N62X5Z4I0K0
N63X32Z32I0K0
N64X8192Z8192I0K0
N65X0Z0I0K0
N66X0Z0I0K0
N67X400Z800I0K0
N68X0
N69X10
N70X0
N71X0
N72X0
N73X0Z30I500K500
N74X0
N75X0
N76X20
N77X8Z8I0K0
N78X0
N79X0
N80X1
N81X0
N82X1
N83X1
N84X1
N85X0
N86X5000Z0I0K0
N87X0
N88X0
N89X1
N90X18Z5I0K0
N91X0Z0I0K0
N92X0Z0I0K0
N93X53Z107I0K0
N94X535Z1070I0K0
N95X25Z45I0K0
N96X30Z25I0K0
N97X1770Z1000I0K0
N98X40

[JHCHOPPERS]

Good news - the spindle is alive!

Very COOL !

[JHCHOPPERS]

ping.... any update ?

Thanks,
JH

[damae]

Well, I learned an expensive lesson - don't shut off your rotary phase converter before you turn off the Mori.

I realized my mistake the instant I did it, but it was too late. I damaged something in the control so that the computer doesn't boot up. In frustration, I let the lathe sit these past 7 months. Meanwhile, boxes and junk have accumulated around the lathes like so much sediment.

A robust spring cleaning restored both my access to the lathes and my interest in the project. Yes, I'm now committed to a full retrofit, but this time, I'm going to start with the other lathe (remember, I have two of these SL-1 units). Rather than wire it up to 3 phase and see what condition the control is in, I decided to just start tearing into it. I pulled the spindle drive off intact as a module, but scrapped the tape drive and the BTR device. I've also spent about 15 hours tracing wires, labeling relays and contactors, and trying to understand the ancient schematics I have on hand.

Since the coolant pump, "trochoid" pump (not sure what this is), hydraulic pump, turret motor, and auto-lube are all 3-phase, I am toying with the idea of preserving the 3-phase contactors and the wiring out to it. Any thoughts on doing this, as opposed to just totally gutting the machine?

As for retrofit gear, I have:

Smoothstepper
Granite Devices VSD-XE DualDC (one drive will power both Z and X)
Granite Devices Breakout board
PMDX-122 breakout board for smoothstepper

I'm unsure what I should do for the spindle drive. What are my chances of finding a modern replacement for the old DC Drive? I bought a 5kw servo motor with matching controller that came from decommissioned equipment. I was thinking about replacing the 3.7kw DC motor with this servo setup.

I'm especially interested to hear from anyone who has swapped spindle motors.

If anyone needs parts from the old controller, the spindle drive, or servo drives, let me know. I'm in the process of taking it all off. I'm even thinking of removing the original power supplies - they are very big and have way more 5v capacity than I'll ever use - the old computer was a power hog I think.

One more retrofit question for those of you who have done it - how did you trace down all the inputs you care about - the limit switches and such?

[JHCHOPPERS]

Sorry to hear about your lathe...

...but I am also glad to learn about your retrofit

JH

[keithmech]

How is the refit?I used a 7. hp ac motor and frequal vfd.Seems to work fine.
I used viper servos and replaced the servo motors with Glenteck motors.I kept the 3 phase to the machine .The switches I just traced with the meter
and relabled.I also have a bunch of old electronic bits and pieces.

[damae]

How is the refit?I used a 7. hp ac motor and frequal vfd.Seems to work fine.
I used viper servos and replaced the servo motors with Glenteck motors.I kept the 3 phase to the machine .The switches I just traced with the meter
and relabled.I also have a bunch of old electronic bits and pieces.

Congrats on your retrofit!
Was it much trouble to swap out the spindle motor for another AC motor? Since I hope to use a servo motor, I might change to a toothed belt. I'm hoping that fabricating an adapter bracket won't be too messy.

Another retrofit question: Did you keep the power supply and relays? I've preserved that portion of the wiring so far, but am on the fence and almost prefer to start from scratch, perhaps replacing the 3 phase contactors with their solid state equivalent. Actually, I'm not even sure what modern machines would use... perhaps it's still common to use mechanical relays?

If it were just one or two 3 phase motors, I'd get a small VFD for each. But I count 7 motors running on 3 phase on this machine, excluding the spindle and servos.

[keithmech]

no trouble on the ac motor,just drilled some new holes in the base.
I used electromechanical starters for all the 3 phase motors,like what where there originally.I have a rpc for the ac motors.The servos are dc.

[damae]

...
I used electromechanical starters for all the 3 phase motors,like what where there originally.I have a rpc for the ac motors.The servos are dc.

I found 3-phase solid-state relays from makers like Crydom, but they are spendy! I'll be sticking with the original mechanical contactors installed in the machine.

Same here - I'll be using a RPC with my machine, at least until I can afford a Phase perfect converter!

[damae]

Quick update. As I continue to strip down the ladder logic relays and all wires connected to them, the cabinet is looking cleaner and simpler. Basically I want to strip out everything except:

-Contactors and wiring to the various motors
-Wires to limit switches and sensors
-Servo motor wires

Still not sure if I should save the monster power supply. A huge part of the cooling built into the left cabinet (the computer side) seems to be a result of the amount of 5v power used. I'm considering replacing it with smaller more reasonable sized, DIN-mounted power supplies for 5v, 24v, and the servo brakes.

Does anyone know for sure what voltage/amperage is needed to disengage the Z and X axis brakes?

[JHCHOPPERS]

Post some pics when can, I would to see your tear down progress.

Also, on my large BridgePort VMC that we are redoing... I have decided to swap out the stock DC Brush Servos and change them to AC Brushless with new AC drives. MachMotion.com sells 750W and 1000W systems cheap ($650-$800) a matched set. There are others thats sell the same kinds of systems for about the same price Just an option to swap in some new stuff that will work for a long time and easily interface to Mach3. I this works as well as I hope, I will do the same on my SL-1 too.

JH

[damae]

It's true.. my project interest tends to wax and wane, depending on the weather, my checking account balance, and subject to other higher priorities - especially family.

So although this project has been on hold for a while, I've now started making progress again. Two weeks ago, I sold the SL-1H for $500 to a machinery dealer in California. I'll be kicking myself if it turns out I need a spare part for my remaining SL1. But getting rid of one machine has freed up all kinds of space in my garage! It's amazing how demotivating a crowded garage can be.

I used my shop-made machinery skates and shop-made toe-jack to skate the machine around into position along one wall of the garage, with the input end of the feedtube facing out the garage door. It's very satisfying to walk in to the garage and see a row of shiny (and unobstructed!) stainless toolboxes along one wall, and the CNC lathe and CNC foamcutter along the opposite wall. In between the two is enough space to park a car. Having space to work really makes me excited about getting down to business with the retrofit again!

At the moment, I still think I will try to reuse the original DC motors.... if the "encoder" units don't turn out to be, in fact, resolvers. If anyone here knows if these machines had resolvers vs. encoders, please give me a heads-up. It will make a big difference in my retrofit approach.