[sordid]

Hi everybody, we're in the market for a used VMC in the 20k price range and are interested in a 2002 Model 3016.. Are there any major issues with these machines? Anything specific we should be looking for when we check them out?

We are a small shop generally doing small runs of 10-50 parts, nothing very complex or accurate (no tighter than .001"). We machine quite a bit of A2 and 4340htsr. Extreme accuracy and speed aren't as important to us as reliability, part availability and ease of use. It will be our first cnc mill.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[scadvice]

...the Fadal post here. That will help you with most of your questions and give about 5 hrs of answers.:wave:
Steve.

[Mark Hockett]

I would recommend getting a local Fadal service tech to inspect the machine. The cost of the inspection should be around $250 and worth every penny.

Mark Hockett

[Scanfab]

Get a boxway machine if steel is your main use. Thrust bearings go out first, lucky cheap (100 USD per axis) and easy to replace. I used a 1997 3016 Boxway machine to cut tons (yep shovel, no conveyer)of steel chips with 63mm facemill and 3mm deep cut(slotting).

[Kevin Taylor]

I'm looking at a used 6030 it is biger than I need but the price is right if it turn's out to be in good condition 96 machine with 2000 factory rebuild it has been in storage for three year's and they robed a drive board to fix another they have Is there any one doing repair's besides fadal or any one know of some one that has part's Ex. or repair service Thank's Kevin

[Scanfab]

They took a servo drive amp..x,y,z card? A new amp is between 1000 and 2000 bucks so if that is the extent, not bad.
A service tech can check the machine with a bad/missing amp and narrow down what exactly is needed before you need to order parts. Check backlashes and act accordingly, slop, change the thrust bearing that has too much backlash-piece of cake. 6030 for first machine?! A4020 is a lot of machine that you can still load without a crane/hoist...

[Kevin Taylor]

The story is that they tried the motor first then the board to fix one of the other machines motor is laying in the encloser and I hope the bad board is there to have somthing to have fixed I hope to look at it later this week and make a decision It isen't going anywhere and I have first dib's on it It's not my first machine but I know it's a size isue If it work's out maybe I could trade down to 4020 or so I need to have a garage sale to make room for it
I have transpo aranged I have a concern about power I have 230 3ph but no 460 neen to find out if it can be configured 230 or will I need a external transformer Kevin

[DareBee]

For the $300 a step-up transformer will cost you I wouldn't think twice about that being an issue.

I am not a big fan of a machine sitting unused for years though. Bad things can happen to ways and ball screws that don't get a good lubing regularly.
I might also be concerned that it is inoperable. Who knows what they may be hiding or don't even know about. If they say it needs a card, tell them you will be back when they get a card and have it running - UNLESS they are practically giving it away and potential 15G in repairs or retrofit is within your budget.

My .02

[sordid]

thanks guys, we pulled the trigger on a 2002 3016, had the machine inspected and did a ballbar test on it so we know everything is ok.. i can't wait to play with it lol!

[ddgman2001]

I'd like to find an older 4020.

Any thoughts on how to know if the box ways are in good or bad shape?

How do you know if it's got box ways or linear bearings?

[carbidecraters]

If your looking for a older 4020 dont get anyhting older than 1993 or anything with less than a 88hs. From what I know of our fadals you could get the high speed processor (6 16bit processors 94 on up) or the std speed processor (2 16 bit ?? maybe1993) -4 fadal 88HS system. I never liked the 88 system and its 5K to upgrade.

[Steve Seebold]

If buying a FADAL, (FADAL stands for "FRANK, ADRIAN, DAVE AND LARRY)make sure it has rigid tap and a 10,000 RPM high torque spindle. I bought one in 2001 and I didn't want the 10k spindle, but the machine I wanted had it. It turned out to be a very wise purchase.

I ran the machine for 6 years with absolutely no problems. Then I retired and sold it.

[ddgman2001]

Some great advice here, thanks.

Why '93 or newer? I've been searching for a couple of days online and '93's seem to be in the 22.5K range on up. My budget is really tight, pre '93 seems to be more in my price range. There's no point though if I wind up with a lot of down time due to constant repairs and such.

[carbidecraters]

Some great advice here, thanks.

Why '93 or newer? I've been searching for a couple of days online and '93's seem to be in the 22.5K range on up. My budget is really tight, pre '93 seems to be more in my price range. There's no point though if I wind up with a lot of down time due to constant repairs and such.

The machines were built so much better with better electronics and controllers. In fact we are selling a Fadal 3016 in our shop in MN. It has the rigid tapping, extended memory and lots of new parts. We are looking for $16 out if it and its a late 93 model with the better 88HS controller. If your interested let me know I will send you the shop #.

The Fadals got faster and stronger in 93 on up. The spindle controllers got strange after the 90's and some arent servicable...or so I am told. The reason we are selling a perfectly working machine is that we are running out of room and need to move in a 6030 fadal.

[ddgman2001]

Thanks for the information and offer. We are looking for a 4020.

Do these machines have a hook on top so that they can be hoisted? We're looking at a new space that would require a Crane.

[scadvice]

http://www.fadalcnc.com/Tech_files/M...Procedures.pdf

and look under Maintenance Manuals. and setting up They have to be lifted as shown there for the machine. Depending on the age of the machine it may be slightly different.
Steve

[Steve Seebold]

FADAL is owned by MAG Machine Tools Group. A good friend of mine is a service tech for MAG, and he told me that MAG had given orders to FADAL to shut it down. There will be no more FADAL's. After that, I would think that a FADAL would be a bad investment unless you could steal it. I mean get a 6030 for $35,000.00 or less, 4020 for $20,000.00.

It seems I got out at just the right time. I sold my 3016 FADAL in January of 2008 for $25,000.00. Today I would probably be lucky to get $15,000.00 for it.

I am however going to put a machine in my garage. I'm going to have a HAAS Mini. Soon.

[carbidecraters]

FADAL is owned by MAG Machine Tools Group. A good friend of mine is a service tech for MAG, and he told me that MAG had given orders to FADAL to shut it down. There will be no more FADAL's. After that, I would think that a FADAL would be a bad investment unless you could steal it. I mean get a 6030 for $35,000.00 or less, 4020 for $20,000.00.

It seems I got out at just the right time. I sold my 3016 FADAL in January of 2008 for $25,000.00. Today I would probably be lucky to get $15,000.00 for it.

I am however going to put a machine in my garage. I'm going to have a HAAS Mini. Soon.

I hear they are shutting down and relocating to Wisconsin.

[scadvice]

...along with relocation, it is just a retirement or phasing out of the 'Fadal' name and transition to 'MAG' for the most part. Support will continue with Mag as long as it is profitable and keeps the majority of their 'continuing to buy customers' happy. After that ,there certainly is a very large group of aftermarket vendors around to support the older machines for parts and electrics for a very long time.(group)

Steve

[Neal]

MAG Maintenence Technologies is still here in Chatworth and will be for a very long time. We will continue to support all Fadal equipment with service, training, and parts. We're in the same building. Production is moving to Wisconsin.
If you are a Fadal owner, rest easy as your support remains!

Neal