[6bx]

Hi everyone,

I am stuck on the connection from the DZB200M spindle frequency inverter to the brake out board on the CNC!

The Image bellow is my wiring diagram that I have done for my CNC with the C11G rev 7.1. bob card that i purchased from www.cnc4pc.com

Click Here To Enlarge



Click Here To Enlarge

Please Help!

Kind Regards,

George

[6bx]

Wow no reply yet huh !

hope someone can help me !!

[jalessi]

George,

See jpg for VFD connection.


Jeff...

[vger]

Ok, First off.... you are showing the power connections to the inverter connections R and T only. R S & T are 3 phase inputs. Do you have 3 phase power available?

Second, what do you want to control on the inverter? Just on and off ? speed control ? direction control ?

The MI1 - MI3 inputs default to be:
MI1 Forward
MI2 Reverse
MI3 Forward Jogging

Have you programed the inverter to make the MI1 - MI3 function otherwise?

Those inputs expect 24V (available from the DCM terminal) so somthing else will have to go between the BOB and those terminals to translate the 5V on the BOB to the 24V for the inverter.

More information is needed to answer your question.

Steve

PS. Don't expect imediate answers, there may not be someone here that knows the answer just waiting for a question. It may take a day or two or maybe a week.

[6bx]

Dear Steve,

Sorry for the rush on getting an answer its just that i disconnected my current card from the CNC and cant work.

now to answer your questions and ask some 2
1. i am using a single phase power source 240V. the connection to the inverter was made by the manufacturer as shown in the diagram i created, showing the current wiring of the Inverter.

2. I want to be able to control the on-off of the spindle and the speed as i did with the previous card.

Please note that the wires exiting the inverter, that i want to connect to the C11G, where connected on my previous card and were working correctly.


3. The inverter was pre programed and wired by the manufacturer. and even if i want to make changes to it, i cant due to i have no knowledge on the device or correct manual!


4. Please let me know if you see any problem in the wiring diagram that i did with the C11G because its what i have already connected!

Thanx so much for the prompt reply,

Thank you,

George.

[Al_The_Man]

It looks to me like the VFD connections are set for pre-programmed speeds? and FWD only.
The three inputs often can be programmed in binary to indicate which speed you want, you just pick up the right combination plus FWD to run.
If this is the case, the set up for the pre-programmed speeds are set in parameters and an alternative to the ±10vdc analogue input.
Is this the way it was running previously?
If so, you will need 4 discrete outputs.
Al.

[6bx]

Al hi,
Thanks for the reply,regarding my problem and thank you and all members who try to help .
Now back to your question ,yes it was working ,you see the router came ready to fly but with the old card we had no problem ,I decided to up-grade so it can work with Mach 3,instead of the NC studio the router came with.

Thanks in advance again for your input

Regards
George

[vger]

George,

Try this link for the manual....

http://www.cnc-technik-madreiter.at/...r%20manual.pdf

Al is correct, if it was working before with those connections then there were most likely 4 speeds you could run with using binary control on 2 of the inputs. The other 2 were most likely some method for run and fwd/rev.

Without knowing how the original breakout board functioned and it's connections to the VFD and how the VFD is programed it will be imposible for me to tell you how to connect the new card.

You will have to have a circuit between the new board and the VFD to translate it's 5V outputs to the 24V for the VFD. One way of doing this would be to use a PNP optocoupler such as the Vishay part SFH610A
http://www.vishay.com/docs/83666/83666.pdf

You could reprogram the VFD to accept the 0-10 V speed control available on the C11G connecting to the VI input of the VFD.

Hope the manual is some help.

Steve

[Al_The_Man]

If it is set for multi-speed, the manual shows the typical way of using the three inputs for 8 speed values, the 3 bit binary value is placed on the the three inputs and then the FWD signal, the FWD is removed to stop.
You will need the programming unit to change parameters, unless it has a built in keypad.
Al.

[6bx]

Dear Al and Steve,
I had a look on the manual Steve send to me but if you dont have the electrical background then is all French to me.
I know is not the best statement and i will not give-up finding the way to make the card and VDF to work but i will need your advise if you can of course.
If i take the fact that with the card the router came it was working and the VFD was set by manufacturer, then what are the new parameters i have to take into consideration, to make it work?.
Now the wires coming out of the VDF are RED (FWR loop to ACM) Green(MI2) YELLOW(MI2) BLUE(MI3) and i have measure them with a load of 10v each one individual.
Also the rest of the ports are EMPTY(no wires)(A,B,C,REV,MI4,AI,10v,FM,MO1,MCM.

Regards
George

[Al_The_Man]

After taking a closer look at the manual, the connections do not jive or make sense with your terminal connections on post#1.
If you look at the manual pages 11,13 & 14 that show the terminals, they do not appear to jive with the your terminal labels in your post?
The way I see it, there should be a connection to MCM (M input common) rather then the analogue ACM being used, I believe this would be DCM on page 11. Unless they are commoned up in the VFD?
Do you have the keypad to allow reading some of the parameters?, as this will also indicate the mode it is set to.
Al.

[6bx]

Al ,
The most scare part is that none of the guides in the manual are follow to my configuration ,making decisions more painful than expected,a small example is the manual says S01,S02,etc and my one says MI1,MI2,etc.
There is on the door panel a digital read out screen but to be quiet frank i can not interfere
with it,it is my last chance to go back.
As i have describe to you regarding the four wires coming out ,what is your opinion as the voltage out-put?
Does the voltage read-out 10dcv sound ok?
Al, if i was asking you how to convert From NC studio to Mach 3 how it will be your approach to the conversion?

Thanks again for the help and compassion on my problem.

Regards
George

[Al_The_Man]

It really necessary to find out first the present configuration before any connection can be recommended to Mach.
In some VFD's, the inputs are labelled M0,M1 etc, rather than S0,S1 as the manual shows.
What puzzles me is the ACM appears to be used for common rather than the DCM, or MCM in your case.
If you have an ohm meter, you could read the resistance from MCM to ACM and see if there is continuity or very low resistance. Let me know.
The other thing that is puzzling is that the FWD is tied to the ACM (common)?
You could try powering up the VFD and jumper any combination of M1 to M3 to MCM and see if the motor runs.
I believe MCM stands for M Input Common.
If you learn how to use the keypad, just reading the value of parameters will not change anything.
Al.

[vger]

George,
Please forgive me... It appears I was NOT correct about the need for translating the voltage up to 24 V. The control wires (as Al mentioned) are enabled by connecting them to DCM (DC common).
Al is correct about the DCM / ACM question. You should measure resistance between them (with power off) to ensure they are internally connected together.
Al is correct again about reading the function parameters from the keyboard/display before knowing how to connect for Mach 3
The inputs MI1 - MI6 (also labled as S1 - S6) can each be set to any one of 25 different functions (5 of which are reserved, or not implemented).
If you were to try each and every possible combination of function settings, you would have millions of possibilities (27,907,200 to be exact) that could be set.
Study chapter 4 in the manual to become familiar with the keypad and the display. The function codes you will be needing to look at are:

F2.01 (setting for S1 terminal)
F2.02 (setting for S2 terminal)
F2.03 (setting for S3 terminal)
F2.04 (setting for S4 terminal)
F2.05 (setting for S5 terminal)
F2.06 (setting for S6 terminal)

I am just geussing you may find them set with values of:

F2.01 12
F2.02 13
F2.03 14
F2.04 (unknown)
F2.05 1
F2.06 2

Take a look at them and let us know

Steve

[takeda]

Hello.

Is it possible to get the PWM out of parport, convert it to DC (with RC filter) and them amplify that to 0-10V with an opamp, and then control spindle speed by using the VI and ACM inputs of the DZB200?

I can't figure why not, please some help!

Thanks

[neilw20]

You are right. Just an RC filter will do it, but you only will get 2-3v DC usable so can amplify it if needed.
I have found with the VFD I used, that you need to detect if there are any PWM pulses, so you can release the stop button line on the VFD to make it safe.
The VFD I used had the option to set a scaling factor, so I did not need an amplifier. I just made it about 1.4v for full speed.

[takeda]

Thanks a lot.

I am already looking at the manual for a scaling factor in fuction and configuration but it's a messy manual. .

rgrds,
Petros

PS I cant understand the following though:

[quote]I have found with the VFD I used, that you need to detect if there are any PWM pulses, so you can release the stop button line on the VFD to make it safe.[\quote]

[neilw20]

PS I cant understand the following though:

I have found with the VFD I used, that you need to detect if there are any PWM pulses, so you can release the stop button line on the VFD to make it safe.[\quote]

Petros.

You can bring the command voltage to zero and the spindle will stop.
Consider if the parallel cable gets unplugged, and the control line floats in a positive direction. The spindle will start.
If spindle start requires the presence of the PWM pulses, then it works sort of like a watchdog, and ensure that the spindle cannot start unexpectedly.
SAFETY FIRST! Schematic quality a bit rough, but you get the idea?

The input to this circuit should be AC coupled, so that it will only work if pulses are present. AC coupling not shown.
/Safety switch at bottom right was to a door switch for tool change access.

[takeda]

PS I cant understand the following though:

Petros.

You can bring the command voltage to zero and the spindle will stop.
Consider if the parallel cable gets unplugged, and the control line floats in a positive direction. The spindle will start.
If spindle start requires the presence of the PWM pulses, then it works sort of like a watchdog, and ensure that the spindle cannot start unexpectedly.
SAFETY FIRST! Schematic quality a bit rough, but you get the idea?

The input to this circuit should be AC coupled, so that it will only work if pulses are present. AC coupling not shown.
/Safety switch at bottom right was to a door switch for tool change access.

Yes I understand (I think). I have to find an input in the VFD to connect the "/stop line" in order to ensure that spindle will start only if PWM pulses are present from the parport.

I will double check the manual and I will try to find a connection (I think that this could be configured through M0, M1, etc inputs). Although, since it's the first time I get involved with VFD and stuff for mechanics, It's easier for me to design a circuit that gives a 0V output if the parport get's disconnected (using a buffer or something with pull down input).

I already found the threshold configuration for VI (minimum and maximum limits)

Thanks for the tips
Petros

[takeda]

I finally used an RC filter to smooth the pwm into DC, just for a check.

After using a voltmeter I measured the output voltage rated 0V to 3V.

The DBZ200 I found in the cnc installation has on input pin for both VI and CI and its called AI (Analog input probably), plus a mechanical switch to select VI or CI.

The problem is that when I configured the VFD to be controlled from Terminal (and not from keyboard) I had no success with AI configured as VI. When I changed the input to VI+CI from within the VFD the spindle worked.

I guess I need a voltage buffer or something in order to work as Voltage controlled.

Then I had to configure the CI min and CI max value from 0.05 to 1.6 almost to fully control the spindle speed.


The strange thing is that when i set the mechanical switch VI,CI to CI it was not working.