[fuzzyracing1967]

This video just blows my mind,watch to the end becouse this guy stands behide his work!


http://www.wimp.com/tablesaw/

[Switcher]

That guy has some serious #@*%

I wouldn't try that If 100 guys before me did it with no problems (missing parts)!

I can see this being a OSHA regulation in the future.


.

[Geof]

That reminds me about an article I read on automobile safety and how anti-lock brakes and some other 'safety' features did not have any significant impact on accidents and deaths because people rely on them and drive more aggressively than they did without them; then when something did go wrong it went wrong faster.

I predict if this device went into common use the impact would be similar.

[ger21]

I've worked in a cabinet shop for the last 14 years, with 4 tables saws and about 20 employees on average. In that time, we haven't had a single injury from a saw blade that required more than a band aid.

We did, however, have a kickback accident last year that put a guy in the hospital for 3 days. The SawStop wouldn't have helped at all.

[fuzzyracing1967]

Actuly the first thing I thought of after I watched the video was how could that be adapted to a band saw? I know very well I'm not the only person on this site that has had a close call while making a simple cut.

(I can see this being a OSHA regulation in the future.)

Switcher would it be such a bad thing? I know when I was young and dumb it was nothing to open an air chuck and catch parts before the chuck came to a stop, and yes I have all ten fingers sort of kinda .

[Geof]

I don't see it working with a band saw because the blade is not rigid enough and probably not strong enough to stop like that. You must have had, or have seen, a band saw break end the end catch on the table and have a lot of blade concertina up behind it. If you crammed a mechanical brake into the blade it would probably do the same.

Part of the reason that saw stopper works is that the rotational inertia in the blade is what makes it retract away from the weenie but this effect would not be present on a bandsaw.

I don't think regulations mandating that type of 'safety' equipment are a good idea because they are trying to replace common sense caution with a supposedly foolproof safety feature. Problem is some fools are awful clever at getting around safety features.

Incidentally my band saw 'close call' was a bit two close and I sported the very visible scar extending 3/8" into the end of my finger for quite some time. Now you have to look hard for it and it blends into the background of myriad other scars.

[fuzzyracing1967]

Geof
(I don't see it working with a band saw because the blade is not rigid enough and probably not strong enough to stop like that).

Actuly that is the very point I was thinking,what if at contact, a brake if you will, grabed the blade just before it came down to the table ? This would stop the saw blade from ,1 cutting fingers off and 2 coming out and flying around?

As far as mandating safety all I got to say on that is,you can say don't do that so many times, before you get to say I told you so.

[thkoutsidthebox]

http://www.sawstop.com/future/future_home.php
The video on the right shows a bandsaw prototype. I checked out the table saw about two years ago, but they're not sold here.

[fuzzyracing1967]

thkoutsidthebox (I checked out the table saw about two years ago)

Honestly I never seen anything about it untill the other day,but still just blows my mind.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Yeah its very cool. I think I saw it first on this site somewhere.....Do a search for SawStop and it might come up. I rang them to find out who my nearest distributor was and the price here, but the girl said it was only available in the US and some or other South American country! From memory the saw is comparable to others in the range, about 2k I think. Might be more widespread now after the few years, and maybe cheaper. The refills for the safety mechanism were pretty steep though, I recall about $120. Then you have to buy a new blade aswell. Thats a poor substutute for keeping you fingers out of the way in the first place! I think you'd have to be pretty dense not to respect a table saw even with that, but IMHO it would be nice to have it as a backup safety 'just in case'.

[locfoc]

That reminds me about an article I read on automobile safety and how anti-lock brakes and some other 'safety' features did not have any significant impact on accidents and deaths because people rely on them and drive more aggressively than they did without them; then when something did go wrong it went wrong faster.

I predict if this device went into common use the impact would be similar.

I can't agree with you at all. Using this logical concept of yours people, should not be wearing helmets when they ride their bike because they use less caution. See the thing is accidents happen they are not always your fault and it's best to have preventative messures to stop these accidents, and increase awareness of safety around sharp tools.
What if somebody behind you slips and pushes you forward while you are using your saw? I bet you will have wished you had this type of prevention to save your fingers, hand and maybe entire arm from being severed. I know I would.

Even if my saw had this mechanism installed I would NEVER want to find out if it works or not. Neither would anyone else here, so that means everybody would still take extreme caution because think about your reaction to watching this movie:
"Oh jesus I would never try that". Well in reality I don't know any sane person that would want to risk finding out unless it was a complete accident.

[skiingman]

That reminds me about an article I read on automobile safety and how anti-lock brakes and some other 'safety' features did not have any significant impact on accidents and deaths because people rely on them and drive more aggressively than they did without them; then when something did go wrong it went wrong faster.

I predict if this device went into common use the impact would be similar.

In god we trust, everyone else bring data. What you recall is not very close to the truth at all, and a cursory glance at something like the NHTSA website will affirm my statement. Risk compensation is a real phenomenon, but it doesn't mean that compensation due to a change in technology or procedure results in a net risk greater than without the change. Similarly, the compensation may result in even greater net risk than before. It depends, it is hard to develop good experiments to test for the effect, and I'm going to need far more data to make any comment on this saw situation.

Further, even in situations where compensating behavior is a serious concern, it is completely unclear what relationship this should have to public policy.

I don't see it working with a band saw because the blade is not rigid enough and probably not strong enough to stop like that.

I can think of several mechanisms to stop a moving band in ~1ms. The band is in some ways easier than the circular blade. Lower mass per unit of length, existing containment structure, etc. Mind's eye suggests a few solutions, one or more of which could add additional value via automagical blade tensioning.

On safety in general, it seems to me the best safety features are unknown and seamless to the end user and required by some combination of engineering best practice, insurance companies, and government regulation. Innovative safety features often must be sold to the end-user, which creates many opportunities for them to do less good than they could, or even net harm. Features that are deemed worthwhile in the latter category eventually make it to the former.

The economics of safety aren't pretty or efficient. The failures of the legal system have an awful lot to do with that. See: Therac-25.

[Geof]

...I can think of several mechanisms to stop a moving band in ~1ms.....

Okay, describe them.

[skiingman]

Multiple possibilities. One is to provide the tension force (either in total with automagic adjustment, or as displacement in series with a traditional tension system) via an electromechanical, electrohydraulic, etc. mechanism. Apply a brake to the feed side of the blade and simultaneously release tension. Dynamics are left as an exercise to the reader, but this isn't rocket surgery.

When I finished writing this, I did a quick google check and chuckled when I found this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PLwNccpXU"]YouTube - SawStop Bandsaw Prototype[/ame]