[rbthntr64]

Panaceabeachbum told me that there was someone on this board doing upgrades to the Seig Super X3 Controllers to handle more current. I have the Grizzly 0619 and my controller has shot craps. I was able to get a replacement from Grizzly, but would like to send the old one out for repair and upgrade. Any help is greatly appreciated. I did try the search function but was unable to find any info.
Thanks

[Chief Tenthumbs]

I just bought a G0619 it's been backordered for 5 weeks. I'm hoping that they have cured that ctrlr board problem in rev3. I'll find out around 4/15/09....... Trying to decide what to use to convert to CNC I know I'm going to use Gecko Drive(s). I just don't know which will be "better" servo or stepper motors. By better I mean last longest /best accuracy/ bang for buck etc. Any and all advice, comments and opinions are welcome!

[Crevice Reamer]

Either remove or insulate the quill DRO so it can't short out against the touchpad and destroy the control electronics.

My electronics recommendation for X3/SX3:

$098 2 KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y.
$089 1 KL34H280-55-4A 637 oz motor for Z.
$417 3 Gecko G203V unkillable drives.
$189 KL- 6515 65v 15A PSU.
$183 1 PMDX-132 Combo breakout board.
-------
$976

http://kelinginc.net/

http://www.pmdx.com/

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

OR, There is a new experimental system using the Gecko G540. This will save some money if it works out:

$299 G540
$098 2 KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y.
$099 1 KL34H295-43-8A 906 oz motor for Z (This detunes down to 520 OZ and you use a 1.25:1 pulley ratio to bring the torque up to 650 oz.)
$129 KL5010 PSU
--------
$625

http://kelinginc.net/

CR.

[Chief Tenthumbs]

Excellent advice! your parts list is very helpful!
Will I need to replace or modify the feed screws on XYZ?
End block supports?
Someone else was telling me about encoder line buffers on the motors?
I'll check to see if those motors have double shafts to remount the hand wheels, then I can still use the mill manually. There is a setting or switch in Mach3 that allows you to de-energize the motors to do just that.

Thanks CR

Either remove or insulate the quill DRO so it can't short out against the touchpad and destroy the control electronics.

My electronics recommendation for X3/SX3:

$098 2 KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y.
$089 1 KL34H280-55-4A 637 oz motor for Z.
$417 3 Gecko G203V unkillable drives.
$189 KL- 6515 65v 15A PSU.
$183 1 PMDX-132 Combo breakout board.
-------
$976

http://kelinginc.net/

http://www.pmdx.com/

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi Chief! You COULD use the stock screws. CNCFusion has a kit for just that:

http://cncfusion.com/smallmill1.html

One of these days I'm going to put together plans for a CHEAP DIY stock screw conversion.

CR.

[DonF]

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75629
http://www.kelinginc.net/
KL23H284-35-4B x 2 $118
KL34H280-55-4A x1 $89
KL-6050 x3 $180
C11G x1 $109 - You can use the C10 and save a few bucks
This was my shoping list from Keling for my x3

I went with this power supply though, just because there may be (will be) a 4th axis in the future.
http://www.antekinc.com/PS-8N54R.pdf

$640 or so total for a 5 amp/60V drivers with protection and an 800w power suply or $560ish with the C10

I looked at the Gecko 540 and really it wasnt a good choice in my opinion it may work but the 6050 is rated higher and has HUGE heat sinks. Lots of people use the keling/leadshine drives with good results, including the x3 pdf how to hosted by cnc4pc.

The choice of C11G for the x3 is explained here -> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_S...0storybook.pdf
Note though this is an old version of the board and NOT the same terminal wise as the new version. Your doing an sx3 so some things will not be the same.

This is who makes the drives for Keling many of their newer designs can be purchased on eBay http://www.leadshine.com/ but Keling is a person in the USA and answers quickly when you have a problem

[Teyber12]

i must vouch for cncfusion- he really put up with my noob arse, answered all my questions and seemed happy to answer them for me. you will save a bit of money doing it all yourself but cncfusion saved me quite the headache.

[cjdavis618]

At this point with the stock controller board in the Sx3, there is no way to control the spindle from an external source.

There have been a few controllers fried in the attempt to follow the storybook doc thinking the SX3 is the same wring scheme as the X3. It is great for the regular but the document is a bit misleading on the board since they look similar in the rear of the SX3 cabinet.

If your controller is fried and you don't mind the tapping feature and RPM display being removed, you could entirely do away with the panel controls and control the motor directly from Mach. There was a post a while back where some one had done that, but I couldn't locate it at this time. I am pretty sure the guy used a VFD drive directly on the motor since it is a small 3 phase motor.

I will try to find the post when I have more time to search. It was a about a year or 2 ago that it was posted.

[Chief Tenthumbs]

An update After waiting 5 weeks for the 0619 to appear from wherever they come from I dumped it for it's no frills $995 little brother the 0423. No quill DRO or other nonsense. It does have a table feed with it $225 extra I got for free! Nice folks at da grizz! So here I am with a $2k budget and I want to save money where I can. I was already to throw down the $976 when I saw your note below. What's the downside here? I'm doing small scale prototyping and dinking around. No heavy production at all. Will this set up work for me?
If it will I'll heat up the visa card and git r done! With the 540 I won't need seperate drivers or a breakout board and it appears to have less power demand, thus the less expensive power supply. Would I gain anything by going with the 6515 PSU? it's only $50 bucks more.

I am going to get the Deluxe mounting and lead/ball screw set from CNC Fusion for a reasonable $569. So all in I'm looking at about $1400 for the CNC motion controls and hardware? I have the computer and software already.

Let me know what you think......
tnx!
CTT

OR, There is a new experimental system using the Gecko G540. This will save some money if it works out:

$299 G540
$098 2 KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y.
$099 1 KL34H295-43-8A 906 oz motor for Z (This detunes down to 520 OZ and you use a 1.25:1 pulley ratio to bring the torque up to 650 oz.)
$129 KL5010 PSU
--------
$625

http://kelinginc.net/

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

This has not been tested yet, but I think it will work well. It WILL work, but without testing, I can't say HOW well. We are waiting for Matt to prove it out with his build. Here is the thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75505

CR.

[Teyber12]

An update After waiting 5 weeks for the 0619 to appear from wherever they come from I dumped it for it's no frills $995 little brother the 0423. No quill DRO or other nonsense. It does have a table feed with it $225 extra I got for free! Nice folks at da grizz! So here I am with a $2k budget and I want to save money where I can. I was already to throw down the $976 when I saw your note below. What's the downside here? I'm doing small scale prototyping and dinking around. No heavy production at all. Will this set up work for me?
If it will I'll heat up the visa card and git r done! With the 540 I won't need seperate drivers or a breakout board and it appears to have less power demand, thus the less expensive power supply. Would I gain anything by going with the 6515 PSU? it's only $50 bucks more.

I am going to get the Deluxe mounting and lead/ball screw set from CNC Fusion for a reasonable $569. So all in I'm looking at about $1400 for the CNC motion controls and hardware? I have the computer and software already.

Let me know what you think......
tnx!
CTT

Wait are you getting the deluxe cncfusion kit or the non deluxe? i really like cnc fusion they are very helpful. i got the cheaper x3 kit and i upgraded to helical couplings on the x and y axis.

One thing if you went with the g203v's and a c11g you could eventually have mach control your spindle im sure you could do this with the g540 but i don't know how (nuts)

however the g540 route will save you a LOT of time

[Crevice Reamer]

G540 has built-in spindle control. Deluxe kit is WORTH the extra money for the precision ball screws & nuts and the angular contact bearings.

CR.

[Teyber12]

i stand corrected!

[Chief Tenthumbs]

G540 has built-in spindle control. Deluxe kit is WORTH the extra money for the precision ball screws & nuts and the angular contact bearings.

CR.

OK I'm going to compare all of the suggested configurations from everyone and go for a balance of Price / Performance / Quality. Definitely the CNC Fusion deluxe kit with the Zero backlash lead screws. They 're .625x5TPI with polished contact surfaces. The stock lead screws are .625x10TPI and rough as a cob. That's $648
CR's motion configuration is the simplest. optoisolators on the the board, built in breakout board and the simplest implementation of RS232 parallel using EPP. Me like-em simple! The motors all have connectors on them or use solder cups. couple of long grateful:rainfro: dead sessions will have this sucker humming quietly!(nuts)
$675
$1323 total
$0995 for mill
$0120 shipping
$2438 done!

Sounds optimistic huh?

[Teyber12]

mind if i ask, where is that leadscrew kit you speak of?

[Crevice Reamer]

Would I gain anything by going with the 6515 PSU? it's only $50 bucks more.

G540 can only handle MAX 50V.

I am going to get the Deluxe mounting and lead/ball screw set from CNC Fusion for a reasonable $569. So all in I'm looking at about $1400 for the CNC motion controls and hardware?

$615 Electronics package W/Keling $10 discount.
$949 CNCFusion deluxe X3 kit. INCLUDES Preloaded zero backlash ball nuts.
$060 CNCFusion Zero backlash Zero Backlash helical couplings upgrade.
------
$1624


You will also need some other stuff:

You can use THIS wire for motor cables and home/limit switches. Ground the drain wire ONLY at the driver end. (Pins 3,4,5 for motors, PSU Ground for homes/limits) It comes in 100 ft roll.

BELDEN 8723-100 STEPPER MOTOR CABLE WIRE

$32 http://www.fullcompass.com/product/305455.html 3 WK SHP

$33? http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c273/P101.pdf

$38 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...100-/36F1033WA

$39 http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/sto...oductId=734180

$40 http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&utm_campaign=

$44 http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...SC=8723+060100

EUROPE http://www.cable-world.co.uk/online.htm


You won't need any db9 motor connectors with the G540, as they come WITH it. The G540 also has circuitry for simple spindle speed control and outputs for dc relays to turn coolant pump (Or router motor) on or off.

These inexpensive relays are very good :

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric

You will need three of THESE 1/4 Watt 3.48K resistors for your 387s and 906:

3.48KXBK-ND


They only come in a pack of five, so about $2.50 with shipping.

http://digikey.com/

You will also need an estop switch, Home/limit switches, Helical couplings and a 6 foot "straight thru parallel port cable. These are all available from Keling:

http://kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html

The G540 is so small that many are mounting theirs INSIDE the computer case.

Camtronics has a case MADE for the G540:

http://s120220635.onlinehome.us/stepper-components.asp

CR.

[Chief Tenthumbs]

G540 can only handle MAX 50V.

Not as smart as I think I am, thanks! that makes sense! duhhhh!

$615 Electronics package W/Keling $10 discount.
$949 CNCFusion deluxe X3 kit. INCLUDES Preloaded zero backlash ball nuts.
$060 CNCFusion Zero backlash Zero Backlash helical couplings upgrade.
------
$1624

That's the PREMIUM, gotta stick with the DELUXE for now. $300 is a budget buster. I'm thinking of hacking an inch or so off the existing Leads, polishing the contact points and making that work. others have done so successfully. A couple report the difference between the CNCfusion ZBLS's (.0001" backlash) and the stock screws (.0002-5") isn't enough to justify the expense if you can use the ones that come with the mill. I was advised to wait and see what the lead screws on the mill look like before spending the money. That makes sense considering the variability of Seig quality control. The main enhancement is the resolution improvement at 5TPI over the 10TPI

You will also need some other stuff:

You can use THIS wire for motor cables and home/limit switches. Ground the drain wire ONLY at the driver end. (Pins 3,4,5 for motors, PSU Ground for homes/limits) It comes in 100 ft roll.

BELDEN 8723-100 STEPPER MOTOR CABLE WIRE

Oy! I have a spool of that in the shop! Dunno how much, but I know where I can get more locally......

You won't need any db9 motor connectors with the G540, as they come WITH it. The G540 also has circuitry for simple spindle speed control and outputs for dc relays to turn coolant pump (Or router motor) on or off.

I was referring to the Male connectors, I saw the Female connectors on the G540, do they supply the Male ends as well? gotta check on that....

These items I can get locally too!

These inexpensive relays are very good :

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric

You will need three of THESE 1/4 Watt 3.48K resistors for your 387s and 906:

3.48KXBK-ND


They only come in a pack of five, so about $2.50 with shipping.

http://digikey.com/

You will also need an estop switch, Home/limit switches, Helical couplings and a 6 foot "straight thru parallel port cable. These are all available from Keling:

http://kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html

The G540 is so small that many are mounting theirs INSIDE the computer case.

Camtronics has a case MADE for the G540:

http://s120220635.onlinehome.us/stepper-components.asp

CR.

I have a pile of industrial grade enclosures and rack mount cases in the shop
19-22" centers I used for print switches, hubs and routers.
I read the Gecko White paper, I need an oscilloscope. Gonna see if I can borrow or buy one for this project. My old man is a Ham radio nut I think he has one I can borrow. Might not need it, as no one here has ever mentioned using one to get this job done.
CR! Thank you so much for your help! I am going to document the entire process with pictures and stuff and post it somewhere as a PDF file.

CTT(wedge)

[Crevice Reamer]

That's the PREMIUM, gotta stick with the DELUXE for now. $300 is a budget buster. I'm thinking of hacking an inch or so off the existing Leads, polishing the contact points and making that work. others have done so successfully. A couple report the difference between the CNCfusion ZBLS's (.0001" backlash) and the stock screws (.0002-5") isn't enough to justify the expense if you can use the ones that come with the mill. I was advised to wait and see what the lead screws on the mill look like before spending the money. That makes sense considering the variability of Seig quality control. The main enhancement is the resolution improvement at 5TPI over the 10TPI

I see where the confusion is, The DELUXE kit contains PREMIUM ball screws. You are calling the REGULAR ball screw kit the deluxe one. If you go regular, be sure to upgrade with two $40 each pre-loaded ball nuts.

Actually, 10TPI will give you MORE resolution, not less. Ball screws give much less friction so axes can move easier and faster.

I was referring to the Male connectors, I saw the Female connectors on the G540, do they supply the Male ends as well? gotta check on that....

YES! The male connectors are provided. If you can find 1/4 watt 3.5K resistors locally, you will be the first. Digikey ships same day and you will have them in 2 business days.

I read the Gecko White paper, I need an oscilloscope. Gonna see if I can borrow or buy one for this project. My old man is a Ham radio nut I think he has one I can borrow. Might not need it, as no one here has ever mentioned using one to get this job done.

No scope needed. Just download Gecko G540B .xml file, set parallel port in computer bios to EPP, set up charge pump in Mach3 and either connect Estop sw or jumper pin 10 to GRD.

CR! Thank you so much for your help! I am going to document the entire process with pictures and stuff and post it somewhere as a PDF file.
CTT(wedge)

You are most welcome!

CR.

[Chief Tenthumbs]

I see where the confusion is, The DELUXE kit contains PREMIUM ball screws. You are calling the REGULAR ball screw kit the deluxe one. If you go regular, be sure to upgrade with two $40 each pre-loaded ball nuts.

Childish humor here somewhere......:banana:

Actually, 10TPI will give you MORE resolution, not less. Ball screws give much less friction so axes can move easier and faster.

Again I show my "ignince"! So my buddy's advice to wait and see what the OEM lead screws look like before I spend the cash is good

YES! The male connectors are provided. If you can find 1/4 watt 3.5K resistors locally, you will be the first. Digikey ships same day and you will have them in 2 business days.

United Radio Supply in Portland. They're still brick and mortar. My father and I both worked there for many years.

No scope needed. Just download Gecko G540B .xml file, set parallel port in computer bios to EPP, set up charge pump in Mach3 and either connect Estop sw or jumper pin 10 to GRD.

SWEET! Don't hafta make that phone call!(nuts)(chair) and the ensuing conversation about my dumb ideas....... That always WORK. Like the wireless Antenna rotor control I made for him....... Jeez I'm 51 not 15, DAD hehehehe!

I'm having FUN now! Mill just arrived undamaged! More later!

Thanks again CR!:cheers: