[cnctube]

Like to draw on the collective wisdom for a simple cnc tube profiler.

My idea is to buy a HF X1, remove the table and convert the Z axis using CNCFusion kit. Replace the table with a custom table using 80/20 with a linear slide driven by a rack and pinion system. On the linear slide I would mount a CNC rotary table. No y axis needed. Use a G540 and a power supply. run it all with Mach 3. Pretty simple and straight forward.

Tubing ranges from 3/8 to 1" with a wall anywhere from .020 to .049

Any thoughts if I am on track or missing the big picture?

Thanks

[mc-motorsports]

Do you mean tube bender?
What is a tube profiler?

[DonF]

What is a tube profiler?

When you machine the end so it mates up with something else.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=259336

[escott76]

Don't forget that you are going to need a large enough rotary with a 1" through hole capability (per your tube size requirements) and a chuck to go along with it. The other thing to keep in mind is that although you can do a really nice job fishmouthing one end of a tube, you'll want to come up with a way of alignment to you can line the second end up as well. Something like a series of clampable collars that you could put on, and indicate so as to keep the two ends starting in the same place. Otherwise what is the point of using a CNC? Also making sure you have a method of measuring the end to end distances. Don't know how long a tube you are talking about, but again, if you can't figure the end distances you may as well mark and grind by hand.
That all being said where there is a will there is a way. If you have enough tubing being cut to justify the purchase of the machine you can figure out ways around this stuff. Just keep it in mind, as it's a shame to produce perfect ends, but not get them to line up, or to come out the correct length.

[sansbury]

What materials are you looking to machine? The X1 spindle has a 2200RPM top end, which can be roughly doubled with a belt drive. This limits your ability to use small cutters well, which may limit your ability to cut complex profiles on smaller tubes.

Also, I don't see why you want to yank the tables and all--there's nothing wrong with them for this type of application.

For a truly dedicated machine, I'd be tempted to do a Frankenstein job using a Sherline or Taig lathe as a starting point. You really only need two axes--the rotary (A) and horizontal (X). The cutter depth could be set manually, at least for simple profiles.

The lathe would provide a bed which could be the X axis and you could use the leadscrew to move the tube carriage back and forth. Sherline sells a lathe->mill kit which mounts the lathe headstock vertically to use as a spindle. The through-hole on the A axis is too big so you'd need to build your own, but that wouldn't be too hard. You wouldn't have to worry about backlash so long as you only cut in one direction.

[skippy]

"When you machine the end so it mates up with something else."
No, that's a tubing "notcher".

[cnctube]

I appreciate the replies. Pretty much a newb with machining. Do have some fabrication and computer skills.

What size/type cutter and at what RPM would you recommend? Material is thinwall 4130 tube.

I was looking at the X1 due to its fairly low cost. Certainly willing to look at others.

4 meters of 80/20 about 50 bucks, linear bearing about 70 bucks.

I was planing a 4 meter x table in order to handle a whole tube at once with no resetting. A sliding steadyrest to hold the end being cut. A 3 jaw chuck on the rotary table so as not to need too large of a rotary table.

Does mean I might need as much as 8 meters of space when cutting the second cut.

Chuck the tube up in the jaw. Make the first cut, then move the tube to make the second cut.

Kind of like this but with a mill not plasma.
http://www.nextstepengineering.com/rp1.php
http://www.nextstepengineering.com/RP1clip3.mpg

could move the milling head, but I thought it would be easier to move the tube as it would not need to be as stiff.

If this thing was within 20 thou I would be happy.

[mc-motorsports]

How thick is the tube you want to cut? Your going to have to hold it pretty ridgid MAYBE as far as 6" from where your cutting, depends on how thick the tube is.

A plasma system would work better, you could rotate and drive the material using your rotary and x axis, set up a steady rest right in front of the plasma torch head and just roll off parts, just like the video.

Interesting project, what kind of parts are you going to be making?

MC

[cnctube]

Tube wall 28 to 49 thou

The plasma does offer some benefits. Unfortunately the downsides outway the benefit. My research from those that have done it that you have to vary the feed rate depending on the cut in order to get a good cut.

But the biggest problem for me is that with where I have to put the machine the sparks and fumes are a major problem so I really need to go with a mill cutter.

Holding the tube rigid won't be a problem (not too much).

Anyone have a recomendation on cutter size, type and speed.

[Geof]

"When you machine the end so it mates up with something else."
No, that's a tubing "notcher".

It is neither a 'tube profiler' nor a 'tube notcher' it is a coping machine.

Google 'tube coping'

[mc-motorsports]

Try 1/8" solid carbide, stub lenght if they are not too much more expensive. More than likely, your speeds and feeds will be dictated by how ridgid you can hold the tube, and it's also possible that if you try to go too fast, it will just colapse the tube instead of cut it, so feeds and speeds are to be determined.

For the .028 wall, you'll probably want to put a piece inside to support it and just cut it at the same time, I forsee problems... Doable though.

[mc-motorsports]

It is neither a 'tube profiler' nor a 'tube notcher' it is a coping machine.

Google 'tube coping'

tube coping is the same as notching. I think he's looking for something a little more versatile. Watch the video in his second link.

[skippy]

There wasn't much information given in the first place about the requirements/concept here but now after seeing the link (even though the mpg doesn't work for me) I believe that profiler is correct because not only can it notch/cope, it can also cut virtually any profile anywhere between the two ends such as this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUuHfi0QmTI"]YouTube - EMI Plasma Tube Cutting Machine[/ame]
In saying that, somehow I'm a little sceptical of this viability of this project for the following reasons. If you are talking small numbers of each item, then the present system all the people from the motor and racing industries use works very well with low capital outlay and minimum space requirements. I've done it that way many times however the last time, I can't remember why I couldn't use the notcher but I did printouts of the required profiles, taped them to the outside of the tube and cut away. That also worked very well.
If you had any decent number of items to produce you would need to buy or make something like in the link above which has an absolutely necessary tube advancer so that profiles, angular relation to each other and length are all correct. Unfortunately I don't see any room for middle ground. Mc-motorsports says the same thing.

mc also asks: "what kind of parts are you going to be making?" This is a very easy question to answer without giving away specifically what it is. There are some very knowledgable people here (Geof and MC above for example) but without some decent info you won't get decent answers. As I say above, this isn't criticism but just some pointers.

[jimcolt]

There are some nice commercially available units that will do all kinds of pipe and tube coping with plasma, oxy-fuel and laser cutting tools. Here is a link to Watts Specialties. http://www.watts-specialties.com/w60sm.htm

And this one to vernon tool. http://www.vernontool.com/vernon/mac.../plasma-1.html

There are also some plasma x-y cutting machines with added attachments for pipe and tube cutting....basically a rotation axis that works with one of the other axis on the machine.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[cnctube]

Sorry, missed it. No secret, if more information is needed/desired please let me know. This is new ground for me (cnc).

The project is a tube fuselage for an aircraft. About 200 cut tubes. Yes, I could do it by hand and have in the past, but then where would the challenge be?

Not sure what more you need. Previously I stated material, wall thickness and diameters. What else?

Can't buy a machine as the cheapest starts around 10 grand. Interesting challenge aside that would really piss my wife off. Could order them out for about 3 grand over the cost of materials. There's the wife again, plus I'd just cut it by hand then as I end up with nothing but a pile of tubes that I could do myself.

I figure I can build this for a ~grand (I have some bits) and do a fair bit of learning and end up with a useful tool.

Feedback has been educational and useful. Keep it coming.

[sansbury]

I figure I can build this for a ~grand (I have some bits) and do a fair bit of learning and end up with a useful tool.

Depending on how close to scratch you're starting from, I'd double that number. You'll get to $1k for the basic CNC X1. All your 80/20, linear bearings, rotary axis parts, etc. will add up faster than you think, more so if you don't have a good junk pile to borrow from.

[dan_the_welder]

Here is the one I made.

Belt drive, 70 dollar lathe chuck from little machine shop, ball transfers for the steady rest.

Not too expensive, about $500 to build.

[Regnar]

dan the welder, How do you accommodate smaller or larger diameter tubing. It looks like it is set up for the size you have mounted now.

[Switcher]

dan the welder, How do you accommodate smaller or larger diameter tubing. It looks like it is set up for the size you have mounted now.

Isn't it just a lathe chuck?

The rest of the machine looks adjustable, from all the 5-star knobs.

Nice build Dan!

[dan_the_welder]

Hi and thanks!

Lathe chuck grabs the tube butt.

There is a pair of ball transfers that you raise or lower to support the bottom of the tube and a single ball transfer you use to hold the top down. Like a steady rest on a lathe but less fussy to setup.

The ball transfers are a functional solution, not pretty but they work well enough. I used them on my router for super cheap linear motion.

Router thread here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37510