[twoartistic]

I have had this debate several times over the years, and I think I am qualified on both sides of the pendulum swing between technology & manufacturing vs. handmade.

I grew up in a small mountain valley, so remote that electricity had not yet been brought into the valley. I learned woodworking, carving, leather craft, weaving, and general hand building skills from my grandfather. All of this was done with out the use of power tools, (although, we did have a gas powered chain saw.)

After Graduating with an industrial electronics degree, I spent 15 years in industry as a field engineer. Most of those years I was fine tuning and retrofitting in line manufacturing equipment, as well as building custom machines.

Now I have combined my skills to use technology in assisting to create my art pieces. So here is the argument that I hear from some of my “pure” artist friends who contend it is not artistry if technology is used in the process. I have a real problem with this, because unless you gather the natural materials yourself, and use NO tools to create a piece, you are using technology of some kind in the process. I believe that the mind is the artists true tool, and that what comes out of the vapors of the artists imagination is the art. It is the imagination and ingenuity combined with all of the life experience of the artist that culminate into an art piece. Part of that experience is the materials and technology and how they can be combined to create a new and original piece. My best argument for this is photography. A camera does not produce a work of art. Put that camera in the hands of a skilled photographer, with vision, and you may get a work of art. But that work of art is trapped inside of the camera, only by applying even more technology can we get it out of the camera, and onto the gallery wall to then finally judge for ourselves, is it art?

What is your opinion?

What kinds of technology do you use to create your art?

Show us pictures!

Here is the work of Creativa Artisan & Design Group. Creativa is a company that I formed that combines the skills of many artists and craftsmen, as well as the use of technology to produce upper scale projects for our clients. I will leave it to you to decide, is it art? Here is the video that showcases our work;

http://tinyurl.com/cn4sww

I will do more posts in this thread about the technologies that we use to create these pieces.

Thank you

[jalessi]

Nice work, Do you use Delcam products?

Jeff...

[HuFlungDung]

I would say that a true artist could use technology to create art, but that there are many of us out here (myself included) who are not artists, but use technology to copy or imitate the work of the true imaginitive artist. Take the engraving of a simple logo onto a part: I'd be hard pressed to design a logo from scratch, but I might be able to create some gcode by scanning a real artist's sketch, or a photo and going from there. I never imagine what I'm doing is artistic, I'm simply using technology as a crutch to fill in where I lack.

Perhaps the power that technology gives us to copy or duplicate, is why purists might resist the use of computerized technologies. But still, in computer imaging, there must be a ton of imaginitive people out there who come up with the graphic design we witness in movies and games. Those people are artists with clean hands

[marcel beaudry]

Hello

For me there are creators , artist ,and artist creator .

An artist can make a scupture of a cat (for example)

A creator will give it life , or a moment of (why did i not think of that)

as for technology,do you see many carver's using stone tools to do their carving's
or bronze tools

I guess technology is a tool by itself, if it is not controlled by a brain it does nothing.

Marcel Beaudry

[dertsap]

the argument that I hear from some of my “pure” artist friends who contend it is not artistry if technology is used in the process.

art is a general term that cups such a wide spectrum of entities into one
how can anyone go about defining what is art and what isnt , it's in the eye of the beholder

there are a large amount of sculptures that have been created using sheet steel and similar materials , i believe the tools of choice for that type of work would be a hammer , a hand grinder and an arc welder .
the amount of money these people can make from the work as well the fact the work can be found displayed anywhere including art museums would make me think it's concidered art , either that or they've managed to fool a lot of people

how about some of the graftiti artists and their few cans of paint , some of that stuff can be incredible , many would say they aren't true artists

[twoartistic]

The visualization process is important for our clients, designers, artists, and production staff to stay on the same page. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent over a drafting table, creating elevation, and perspective views of a design. Now we use 3-D software, our favorite is Sketch up (free from google). Then we choose several views for our artists to enhance with hand sketched details. Yes the software can be used to create texture and details, but it can't convey the kind of warmth and charm that the skilled artisan does.

See for yourself here; http://tinyurl.com/d3mhbh

Three views of the same project, the first is the Sketch up model, the second is the artists rendering, the last is the final product.

[twoartistic]

Hey Jeff,

Yes, one of our designers uses Artcam. We also use Alphacam, Cabinet Vision, Rhinocad, AutoCad, DeltaCad, and a host of other products. Each designer has their own software that they use.

[fun4u2play]

Hi twoartistic,

I wanted to watch your video, but it didn't load for me. Your post raises a very interesting point. I have a friend who's woodworking is art in my opinion, and he is an accomplished painter. He shows his paintings in a local art show, but they won't show his furniture. He was told that if it is functional it is a craft, not art. I just don't get it. I agree with you, art should be about the origionality, and application of skills. Not what tools are used, or in my friends case, if it is functional or not.

[twoartistic]

fun4u2play here are a couple of links for the video one is on anamoto where the video is hosted, and the other is Creativa's facebook page where I uploaded the video.

Animoto video link http://tinyurl.com/cn4sww

Creativa Facebook link http://tinyurl.com/d3mhbh

I have had the same experience with art galleries. Many galleries view art, as an original creation regardless of function, case in point, the Guggenhiem Art Museum did an exhibit of motorcycles. It was the most attended exhibit in their history. However, some art "critics" and professors believe that art must stand alone, without function. It was explained this way to me by a gallery owner, "if an artist creates a vase, it is art, if you put flowers in it, it is a vase". While I can see his point, that point is very thin.

[fun4u2play]

Wow, Ok the video is awesome.

I liked the gear table, the bronze horse door, and the race car. What is the car about? You must have a friggen killer equipment setup! Seriously some of the most beautiful work I have ever seen. My vote is that it is art.

[wjfiles]

Art ?
Over thousands of years man has created works of art.
The quality and purpose had nothing whatsoever to do with the tools or implements used.
wjf

[Lemo]

Art ?
Over thousands of years man has created works of art.
The quality and purpose had nothing whatsoever to do with the tools or implements used.
wjf

I fully agree. Unless you gnaw the material with your teeth and claw your pattern into the material with your finger nails you are using a tool.

It's all in the detail. If the final work looks machined, then it's not finished yet.

Rainer

[Fiddlemaker5224]

Twoartistic Technology VS. Handmade

The biggest difference I see is the time factor for labor.

The Technology allows us to focas on the hand details the technolgy is nt able to do.

I am currently using a carvewright to rough out me top and back plates for the instruments I build. WThis saves about 20 hours of hard labor for me.

Now when it is time for tuning the plates nothing beats the feel of the material in your hands. You can feel how much the material has changed by flexing and tapping it. The sound of the plate will also change, I haven't figured a way to do this with technology so but I am still still looking.

In my shop I use technology and hand hand togather to produce butiful Fiddles.
The first two pix are for the 1/16 size fiddle that seems to have become very popular lately (one in the machine being carved) the other pix are of an 8string fiddle the top and back plates were carved on the machine and the rest was finished by hand.

[Lemo]

Twoartistic Technology VS. Handmade

The biggest difference I see is the time factor for labor.

The Technology allows us to focas on the hand details the technolgy is nt able to do.

Exactly. I use it that way. In previous times an aprentice had to do the grunt work for the master and now I have 'Igor the router' doing the grunt work and can then focus on the details.

Applying technology wisely also enables me to create things I could not possibly justify creating because the sheer time it would take would make the articles prohibitively expensive.

Rainer

[MrWild]

Well, I can see the art in technology, but I can also see the art in bull****. I was enjoying many machine produced pieces of furniture, and then right in the middle of the vid, the words, "Hand Crafted" leapt out at me. Hand crafted to me means chiseled, cut, finished and blended with hand tools. Not typed, programmed, set up, and machine tool bits changed by hand. Bull**** artistry is still artistry I guess. sort of like "Amish built." around here. Machined work, shouldn't have "Hand crafted" attached to it

[Lemo]

Haha... yes... the Amish Flat Pack lol... I know exactly what you are talking about. And yes, fully machined work should not be declared 'Hand Crafted'. But then... I have seen at least 10 species declared as 'Beach Wood' as well. IMHO it is necessary to educate the client so he can judge the value of work himself and make a decision based on budget and taste. I allow a certain amount of input from my clients as long as it does not compromise the structural integrity and the durability of a finish. And sometimes plain machined work is just 'good enough'.
R

[badmoonrizn]

I believe that if you have a vision for something you want to create, it should not matter how it gets created as long as the final result is what you had envisioned.

Jack

[twoartistic]

Due to the resolution of the online video, it is difficult to see the handcrafted elements of some of the projects. Be it hand-carving, hand-shaping, hand-finishing, hand-cutting, hand-painting, etc. all of our work has a hand crafted nature. Another way of looking at it is we have no production line, we have no product that moves through an automated system from start to finish. Every project is touched by an artist, and/or craftsman in some part of the process. We don't even bid on projects that don't have custom hand crafted elements in them. We pass those projects on to other shops that are set up for production, and in return they have us produce their hand crafted elements for them.

Here are some photos of a project that exemplifies what we do. This entertainment center has both high technology applied to it and hand crafting.

Technology used:
3-D cad cam software to program the molding shapes, and create the tool paths.

CAD, used for the layout and dimensioning of the piece.

CNC, used to rough out the moldings, and cut some of the shaped panels.

Table Saw, Planner, Joiner, Shaper, Molder, Wide Belt Sander, Morticer, Dovetail Jig, Wire Feed Welder, Oxy Acetalene Torch, and various powered hand tools, used for dimensioning wood and metal to size.

Craftsmenship Used:
Measure, Cut, Fit, Assemble, Sand.

Artistry Used:
Original Design, this is the first and only one on the planet. I was juried into the 2008 Western Design Conference, for one of my carvings. This is an additional piece that I designed to showcase the talents of our team at that show. Since I designed the piece and programed all of the CAD/CAM and CNC files, my original vision, and the end result are not diluted by interpretation.
Hand carving, all moldings and trim were hand carved to final shape, and further shaped once installed to match all the corners.
Hand Forged Steel Hardware, our metal sculptor hand crafted the one-of-a-kind hardware.
Hand Crafted Finish, this is the hardest to appreciate in a photo, the finish for this piece was created just for this piece, by our finisher. He is an artist in every respect, the finish is so good that many of the furniture makers at the conference thought this piece was an antique.
Hand Painted Design, again an original design painted on by one of our artists.

That is the point of this thread. Does the fact that technology was used to a great extent, take away from the artistry and hand crafted nature of the piece. Now if systems were in place to create this piece in a production environment, and each piece were nearly the same as the last piece. Then I think the line is crossed.

[Lemo]

Now if systems were in place to create this piece in a production environment, and each piece were nearly the same as the last piece. Then I think the line is crossed.

Yes and no... it would then enter the valid realm of 'reproductions'. And those have a value as well. Just smaller. Till the majority vanishes and the remaining few become collectors items again and climb in value 8))). Like a new stamp. The original of the stamp: priceless. The printed versions ... worth little. Once all but one vanish... the stamp is worth more than the original piece of art it was created from.

I think all is valid as long as it is not miss represented. Trying to sell something as being made over the term of 5 years and thus very very valuable while a cnc machine in the basement is barfing 10 of'em out per month is not correct. All in good measure. And I like that entertainment center.

[twoartistic]

Great example for this thread. I have a friend that makes $40,000+ violins. He does of course do most of the process by hand, but he has a bridgeport mill to rough out some of the stock. I like lemo's point, that much of what we are using technology for today, was done by an apprentice in earlier times. That is true even today, so should it matter if the grunt work is preformed by a lower lever craftsman or a machine? If the final process is done by the artist, the piece is their art.

I don't hide the fact that we use technology from our clients (some of my peers do), I am proud of the ability to master the technology. In fact I built my CNC, so it is a part of my marketing to tell clients about the extent of technology we are using to create their piece.