[Delw]

I have a bunch of parts I am running, 2" wide 4" long and 1/4" thick. I drill 12 holes and tap 8 of them metric 6x1 each order consists of approx 200 parts, as you can imagine cycle time is less than load time on 4 vices and there are other parts the same shape wider and longer.

so sence I got a full 4th I was thinking of maybe making a tombstone to lay down out of 5x5 alum maybe steel. in that tombstone I want to build in vices/ for gripping/ the vice jaws I use on the bigger parts are .325 tall from locator face to top of jaw. and a max of 4inchs wide.

the tombstone I was thinking is 20" long 5x5 alum or steel using alum jaws as I have to cut them for the profile, with 16" workable is what I figure on a vf2.

running a 210 rotary hass rotary with a frame.

what is the proper way to build a mini short vice so it holds these parts, I want to build the vice into the tombstone on all 4 sides of it, Might have to for 3 sides.
so I guess my questions would start at/

Alum 6061 good enough?

if I run slots and a ball screw for the vice part leaving the other side built in would the vice jaws kick UP when you applied pressure? of should the slots be angled down at 1º.

ball screw or acme screw or ?

I only want to make it once but it needs to last hold the parts securely and accurately so the face of the part doesn't push up when I tighten the jaws.
I have a .001 thickness requirement.

I had thought of making the body out of alum ( the 5x5 tombstone) then using ground tool steel for the wear areas and the one movable jaw. kinda like Gibbs on the older machines.

my main concern is keeping the jaws from pushing the parts up when tighten, how do you accomplish that?

based on a 20" long tombstone I am thinking I will have 16" workable * this will be on a haas vf2ss with a 210mm rotary

if I go with a three sided tombstone I could get 4 vices wide on 3 sides, 12 total vices.

the 4 sides I would have to stagger them so 2 sides would have 4 vices 2 sides would have 3 vices, 14 total vices.

I do have to index 90º for 2 tapped holes on each side as well.

i could do other types of parts as well or pretty much anything that I would only need a side grip of .325 or less. as Long as the height doesn't hit the table on the rotation side.

Thoughts ?

Delw

[Geof]

Have you heard of Mitee Bites?

I suspect you have an application they may be suitable for.

I think you mini vise idea may have serious problems with the moving jaw kicking up.

[Delw]

I looked into mighty bites kinda, they would probably work fine, you just wouldnt have the option of running various sized parts with out alot of tapped holes.

I was hoping someone knew how to make a vice so the jaw wouldnt kick up., I might try it with a dove tail and some high pitch acme threads, just to see if it works.
I kinda the fixture up on paper. and found some possible poblems

[Geof]

I looked into mighty bites kinda, they would probably work fine, you just wouldnt have the option of running various sized parts with out alot of tapped holes.........

I kinda the fixture up on paper. and found some possible poblems

Make the fixture base out of steel, put small tee-slots in it and then make little tee-nuts for the Mitee Bites.

I am surprised you found only some possible problems; normally in the early stages of fixture design I find lots of possible problems.

[Delw]

early stages??? lol I been thinking of it for a very long time, unfortunatly very seriously in the last few days.
I even thougth of buying tool maker vises and modifying them to the fixture

The t-nuts for th emighty bite are really good thinking saves on heli coils bigtime.
now the mighybites should work far better in this application.

Matter of fact I will call them now and get some.
Thanks Geof
Delw

[Geof]

early stages???...

....The t-nuts for th emighty bite are really good thinking saves on heli coils bigtime.
now the mighybites should work far better in this application.

Matter of fact I will call them now and get some.
Thanks Geof
Delw

If you have not built anything it is early stages.

My invoice for consulting services is in the mail.

[Delw]

LMAO so is my check.

Mitte Bite will work fine in the applications I am thnking, Talked to the tech about a few different things.

actually the mitee bite will allow more parts in the same distance with a bigger tombstone with less work to make it.

I didnt realize they had so many options
Thanks again
Delw

[Jake E.]

You can also check out OK-Vises. They have a higher clamping force than the Uniforce.

OK Vises



Uniforce Clamps

[Cmailco]

Maybe a bit off-tangent, but these parts sound like possible candidates for break-out. Any way you could post a picture or cad model/drawing?

[diesel dave]

Maybe a bit off-tangent, but these parts sound like possible candidates for break-out. Any way you could post a picture or cad model/drawing?

What is break-out?

[Cmailco]

What is break-out?

A break-out is a method of holding parts in say, a piece of bar stock without leaving tabs. If you were milling a 2" square out of a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum sheet, profiling the part with say, a 1/4" end mill in two passes to Z .016", then finish profiling to Z .006" (taking .002-.003 from the walls) would leave enough web thickness to hold the part in the material. Of course, this requires a tooling plate under the workpiece with Z-zero set from that datum surface. It goes without saying that any large voids underneath will allow the material to tear out as the finish pass is made. Tapped holes, pin locations, etc., aren't typically large enough to cause a problem though.

A company I worked with for many years probably produced 90% of their prototypes/short-run production this way.

Regards,
Chuck

[diesel dave]

A break-out is a method of holding parts in say, a piece of bar stock without leaving tabs. If you were milling a 2" square out of a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum sheet, profiling the part with say, a 1/4" end mill in two passes to Z .016", then finish profiling to Z .006" (taking .002-.003 from the walls) would leave enough web thickness to hold the part in the material. Of course, this requires a tooling plate under the workpiece with Z-zero set from that datum surface. It goes without saying that any large voids underneath will allow the material to tear out as the finish pass is made. Tapped holes, pin locations, etc., aren't typically large enough to cause a problem though.

A company I worked with for many years probably produced 90% of their prototypes/short-run production this way.

Regards,
Chuck

I'm confused/totally missing what you are saying, is there a typo in there as far as measurements are concerned?

[Cmailco]

A diagram might be more helpful. The part, nested in the material, is shown to the left and a magnified cross-section view of the part in the stock (the "part" is to the right of the groove) with .006" holding it in place. The slot cut around the part, leaves .006" on the floor to allow the part to stay in place. Simply unclamp the stock and a light tap breaks the part out of the workpiece. Lots of variations on this strategy and it's good for some parts... but of course, not the best strategy for everything.

Regards,
Chuck

[Ovrclck350]

OK-Vises have CAD dwg's available on their website for each size.

I liked the OK-Vises better, but I went with Kurt Mini-Locks even though the design isn't as good or self contained because I needed the Z clearance. My Mini-Locks are ~.250 tall from Z0 when clamped down. I pocketed them into my fixture, so I'm actually holding onto .110 worth of Z. They've worked decently. My fixture design for my use could use a revision or 2 though.

[diesel dave]

A diagram might be more helpful. The part, nested in the material, is shown to the left and a magnified cross-section view of the part in the stock (the "part" is to the right of the groove) with .006" holding it in place. The slot cut around the part, leaves .006" on the floor to allow the part to stay in place. Simply unclamp the stock and a light tap breaks the part out of the workpiece. Lots of variations on this strategy and it's good for some parts... but of course, not the best strategy for everything.

Regards,
Chuck

Chuck, I appreciate the diagram, that is kind of what I had in mind, its just not something I would have tried as I would have assumed that surface finish would be dismal due to vibration from the thin bottom. Maybe this works fine in aluminum? I mostly just machine Stainless Steels and I don't see this working well, but would love to be proven wrong:cheers:

OK-Vises have CAD dwg's available on their website for each size.

I liked the OK-Vises better, but I went with Kurt Mini-Locks even though the design isn't as good or self contained because I needed the Z clearance. My Mini-Locks are ~.250 tall from Z0 when clamped down. I pocketed them into my fixture, so I'm actually holding onto .110 worth of Z. They've worked decently. My fixture design for my use could use a revision or 2 though.

How much do the Kurts go for? I am looking to ditch my chick two station 4" vices and move to a solution that allows me to get more parts on the table.

[Jake E.]

OK-Vises have CAD dwg's available on their website for each size.

I liked the OK-Vises better, but I went with Kurt Mini-Locks even though the design isn't as good or self contained because I needed the Z clearance. My Mini-Locks are ~.250 tall from Z0 when clamped down. I pocketed them into my fixture, so I'm actually holding onto .110 worth of Z. They've worked decently. My fixture design for my use could use a revision or 2 though.

We have done the same with OK-Vises. some we have buried down to holding only .100" with no issues. this was in a steel fixture thorugh, not aluminum. We found that the aluminum would start to give alot quicker than the steel. Some of our aluminum setups also use Talon grips as well as OK vises ( Mitee-Bite Products Co. - VersaGrip Vise Jaws System ) to allow us to hold onto even less.