[CharlieD]

Here is my last project, oh well it's my first one too.

[yohudi]

To anyone interested really...

January updates are now online at http://cnc4free.org

Some examples below..

Also good to see more contributions in the thread....

TTFN

Danny

[15mgtar]

Superb! Thank you very much for sharing!

[yohudi]

Superb! Thank you very much for sharing!

Hi there,

only just saw this..

many thanks for kind words.. glad you find the files to be useful

regards

Danny (aka Yohudi)

[yohudi]

To anyone interested really,

February's updates are now ONLINE at http://cnc4free.org. Some examples below as usual..

Links page also updated...

TTFN

Danny

[dan j]

Very nice of you to do this. I'm new to CNC but once I get the basics figured out I'll have to try the 3D stuff out (and the 3D software since VCarve won't do it).

Thanks,
Dan

[yohudi]

Very nice of you to do this. I'm new to CNC but once I get the basics figured out I'll have to try the 3D stuff out (and the 3D software since VCarve won't do it).

Thanks,
Dan

Hi There.

Many thanks for kind words... would encourage you to take a look at the many free options... free software and a little skills development can go a long way in terms of broadening the horizons for CNC work.... thats the real benefit over and above the cost factor..

To anyone interested...

March 2010 updates are now ONLINE at http://cnc4free.org.. some examples below as usual...

TTFN

Danny

[Lynn Livings]

<CUT)
Many thanks for kind words... would encourage you to take a look at the many free options... free software and a little skills development can go a long way in terms of broadening the horizons for CNC work.... thats the real benefit over and above the cost factor..
<CUT>

I had a look at the CNC4free website last year. I don't really recall everything that was there (there is a lot), but I seemed to remember that the main gist was a list, or links, to several "free" bits of software that one could utilize to expect an outcome of 3D machining.
Free to me is worth looking into, because I don't have the funds to get too deep into 3D machining the way I'd like to. 2D is expensive enough for a hobby, but worth it for the experience (I don't make any money on my hobby). Mostly I just like to understand processes and see the technology at work. That's about the most gratification I get from this, aside from the occasional gift I may give to someone that I actually made.
Now, I may have it wrong here, but I didn't get too involved in the web site and its contents because I remember it being very disjointed information to me. I actually tried a few of the listed programs out, and I didn't find them really to be a solution. I will admit that I can't recall right now the exact problems, but I can tell you I didn't come away with anything that I'm using in any way now, although I'm not doing 3D either.
It seems I do remember an e-book or something the site owner was wanting to sell to me that would help me put all the pieces together to make a viable solution to free 3D machining.
Anyway, I might have "missed the boat" on this one, but I just didn't see any way to accomplish 3D machining without quite a compilation of non-related programs and processes. And by the time I bought the e-book, "free" wouldn't be part of the equation anymore.
But, like I said, I might have "missed the boat".
Maybe if I knew more about the subject, I could have formed a different opinion. It seems in this hobby, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I will have to learn! But it's all good, mostly.
Is anyone reading this actually using the programs on the site successfully to machine in 3D? If so, how close to "free" was the cost of getting it all together, not counting any hardware?


Lynn

[yohudi]

I had a look at the CNC4free website last year. I don't really recall everything that was there (there is a lot), but I seemed to remember that the main gist was a list, or links, to several "free" bits of software that one could utilize to expect an outcome of 3D machining.

I may have it wrong here, but I didn't get too involved in the web site and its contents because I remember it being very disjointed information to me. I actually tried a few of the listed programs out, and I didn't find them really to be a solution. I will admit that I can't recall right now the exact problems, but I can tell you I didn't come away with anything that I'm using in any way now, although I'm not doing 3D either.

Anyway, I might have "missed the boat" on this one, but I just didn't see any way to accomplish 3D machining without quite a compilation of non-related programs and processes. And by the time I bought the e-book, "free" wouldn't be part of the equation anymore.

Maybe if I knew more about the subject, I could have formed a different opinion. It seems in this hobby, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I will have to learn! But it's all good, mostly.

Is anyone reading this actually using the programs on the site successfully to machine in 3D? If so, how close to "free" was the cost of getting it all together, not counting any hardware?

Lynn

Hi There,

There is a lot of information at cnc4free.. the aim of the website is to list all the available free options to cover the widest possible area of interest.... This might cause information to appear a little 'disjointed'.. and that is the purpose of the ebook .. to explain how various software can be applied to provide tested solutions for a range of interests. If that's not close enough to free for you there is always the option of investigating the software without benefit of the ebook.

FREE 3D machining is easy to acheive using Freemill... Content generation for 3D machining is a separate issue entirely...

All of the 3D content at cnc4free is made using GIMP, gmax (or alternative displacement engine) and a file convertor to get to .STL format. With the alternative being very costly software I think that's not too difficult a solution really... but you do need to have the interest to pursue it...

Hope this helps

Danny (aka Yohudi)

[Lynn Livings]

Hi There,

There is a lot of information at cnc4free.. the aim of the website is to list all the available free options to cover the widest possible area of interest.... This might cause information to appear a little 'disjointed'.. and that is the purpose of the ebook .. to explain how various software can be applied to provide tested solutions for a range of interests. If that's not close enough to free for you there is always the option of investigating the software without benefit of the ebook.

I did investigate the software without the benefit of the e-book; I suppose that's why I found it so "disjointed" to me. The info presented starts off in the middle of a topic if I remember correctly, or at least there wasn't an introduction to the topics being discussed I don't think. In other words, you pretty much had to discern what was being discussed, and why. I quickly became overwhelmed and disinterested in the information. I didn't become disinterested in the subject, just the info I was looking at.

FREE 3D machining is easy to acheive using Freemill... Content generation for 3D machining is a separate issue entirely...

I tried Freemill. To say that this is a 3D machining solution is to me like saying that a Moped is a viable form of daily transportation. Both statements are true, but obviously once one has experienced either item, the attributes given in the statements seem like "baiting" to me. Or maybe that is too strong a word, I dunno. But I do know I ran the program "out of gas" on like the second project I tried to accomplish (don't remember what it was but I guarantee you it was dead simple).
I agree that the real expenditure in money and effort falls into the category of content creation; much more than I ever thought. But herein lies many "snafoos" and "gotchas" as well. I have tried several programs out that promise ease in generating 3D content from various sources like photographs for just one example. Then once you try it with the automated process, it's invariably a total mess with unacceptable results. I have not found one program that will do that to date.
Now, I'm not saying that this is even possible. How would I know? I'm just learning about these things. But, if you advertise it as possible and offer a trial version to prove it, then it ought to work. But I've yet to see it done. One look at the help or support forums and/or pages of these programs and it becomes apparent I'm not the only one that had problems with results produced with the "latest and greatest" automatic process.
It's only when one investigates why the program didn't produce the results expected that you run into the seemingly bottomless pit of learning the aspects of how the world attempts to accomplish 3D machining and it's lengthy and very segmented and forked roads.
It became very obvious to me that this is still a field where technology is on the move in almost all aspects of the industry. Plus, there are just too many ways (disciplines) to go about it that I think one must choose a strategy that best suites ones goals or/and ability in all terms including ability, machinery/equipment, and purchase power.
It can quickly get away from someone like me who would just like to learn the technology and watch it work at home. But, 3D machining doesn't have to feel pregnant on that score!

All of the 3D content at cnc4free is made using GIMP, gmax (or alternative displacement engine) and a file convertor to get to .STL format. With the alternative being very costly software I think that's not too difficult a solution really... but you do need to have the interest to pursue it...

Hope this helps

Danny (aka Yohudi)

Thanks Danny for this confab and for the effort of your site. I might one day get the e-book and try again. Please be aware that it wasn't the cost of the e-book that persuaded me not to participate. I was afraid that with the presented material being so hard to pickup on and follow coherently out of the blue (for me anyway), I was afraid the e-book might follow the same construction guide. There is no example that I saw of the e-book, so visitors don't have a clue how it's put together and what is actually the thrust of the info. Does it delve into 3D material construction and programs that are available to the hobbyist? Is there info available that actually walks you thru a process from content creation to finish machining? If it does these things, I will be interested.
Just posting this makes me interested all over again. But, realistically, I don't think I'm ready to devote the time it would take, to learn why you can't take a b/w photo, scan it at say 600 dpi, and have a program perform a reasonable translation into a machinable result that actually looks something like the picture you scanned in with out having to "adjust" dozens upon dozens (seems like) variables and parameters. Hell, I might could just "etch-a-sketch" it in less time! Maybe it's time to put the motor handles back on! Just kidding.
I would however be willing to devote a "reasonable" amount of time and would enjoy doing it probably. I do have a small mill and lathe. I have CNC'd my mill, and have been 2/2 1/2D milling for a year or so. So it's not like I can't learn. I've used several iterations of the programs available for hobbyists that you see out on the net, even the Linux platform (which I still use for some things). So, learning about 3D machining of course would seem like the natural thing to do. However, it is very surprising just how "unnatural" it is in reality. In our planetary language, there just isn't an easy way to describe 3D, compared to 2D.

Lynn

[yohudi]

Hi Again...

You seem to be quite interested in pursuing this discussion... so I will take up some of the points you mention with a view to trying to help you see past them....

I did investigate the software without the benefit of the e-book; I suppose that's why I found it so "disjointed" to me. The info presented starts off in the middle of a topic ......you pretty much had to discern what was being discussed.......I didn't become disinterested in the subject, just the info I was looking at.

Site content at cnc4free.org is meant to be an overview of the possibilities.. not an in-depth set of instructions from start to finish. This is not really possible online due to the complex nature of the topics covered. The ebook takes a much different approach, addressing fundamental issues related to CNC tasks along with example content to 'walk-through' various processes.

I tried Freemill. To say that this is a 3D machining solution......seem like "baiting" to me. Or maybe that is too strong a word, I dunno. But I do know I ran the program "out of gas" on like the second project I tried to accomplish (don't remember what it was but I guarantee you it was dead simple).

Many people do use Freemill on a day to day basis.. In my own use I have compared the results at the tool-tip with with a range of commercial software.. there is little difference. To arrive at this kind of result does take at least a basic understanding of the 3D cutting process along with tooling and feedrate issues. This is stated at cnc4free.org... With a little skills development, results equating with the output of commercial software are most definitely acheivable.

To be fair, commercial software may offer a wider range of toolpathing strategies and may seem more user friendly.. However, to a cnc-machine, 3D cutting code is just code.. It doesn't really care how you got it..

I agree that the real expenditure in money and effort falls into the category of content creation; I have tried several programs out that promise ease in generating 3D content from various sources like photographs... Once you try it with the automated process, it's invariably a total mess with unacceptable results. I have not found one program that will do that to date.

It became very obvious to me that this is still a field where technology is on the move in almost all aspects of the industry. Plus, there are just too many ways (disciplines) to go about it that I think one must choose a strategy that best suites ones goals or/and ability in all terms including ability, machinery/equipment, and purchase power.

Most software aimed at generating 3D content on the basis of images operates around the principle of mapping greyscale values to XYZ vertex locations in 3D space. Due to the diverse nature of image content it's almost impossible to 'automatically' get this right for every image you might load. That's just the nature of the beast. However, with a little knowledge it's possible to apply simple adjustments to lineart or photographs to create predictable and usable results. You do need to understand the basic principles of height-mapping... but it's not rocket science and is certainly achievable.

My own use of 3D design software dates back to a time when 'automatic' means to do this were not available.. 3D modellers were obliged to learn the principles of height-mapping before attempting to generate meshes or splines deformed by image content. Much software seems to promise a means to do this 'automatically' without being clear regarding the impact of image content in the process. At cnc4free.org I take a different approach and stress the importance of abilities to adjust images suitably being a vital part of the process.

Thanks Danny for this confab and for the effort of your site. I might one day get the e-book and try again....... I was afraid the e-book might follow the same construction guide.

There is no example that I saw of the e-book, so visitors don't have a clue how it's put together and what is actually the thrust of the info. Does it delve into 3D material construction and programs that are available to the hobbyist? Is there info available that actually walks you thru a process from content creation to finish machining? If it does these things, I will be interested.
....

Lynn

Thanks for your kind words.... You should check the link below for an overview of the ebook contents... there's also a free PDF download of the CNC_Toolkit user guide.. which is sort of an example chapter...

I don't say this to plug the ebook... The cnc4free.org ebook has never been about profit as far as I'm concerned. I'm far more interested in distribution of the information so that people can gain maximum benefit from FREE software. The only reason I impose a charge is to keep the website afloat... It might be worth checking out the latest revision when it's released.


http://cnc4free.org/t.html

In the chapter overviews I've tried to include sufficient information so that those with a reasonable understanding don't actually need to buy the ebook.... but can simply get a good idea of the processes involved to investigate them on their own. The chapter 9 and Chapter 10 overviews might be of most interest to you. I'm currently working on a revised and much simplified version of the ebook, providing a far more integrated FREE solution to 2D and 3D CNC work in 3,4 and 5 axes.. this is due some time in May if all goes to plan... I'm also considering making it a FREE givaway.

I make at least 60 to 100 meshes each month depending on the work I'm doing.. I use a range of software to do this but I purposfully restrict myself to FREE software for the content at cnc4free.org. Most content there takes about 15 to 20 mins at most to make. I wouldn't give up on generating 3D content from images.. it's not that hard when you understand how to apply a few basic principles to the process..

Hope this helps

Danny

[yohudi]

To help understand how FREE tools CAN provide a 3D Machining solution I thought it might be helpful to post an example of the process... see the images and the notes below. I should point out that the detail in these images is not as good as I would like. I've been obliged to compress them considerably so the board would upload them...

Image 01

The small image in the left hand corner is the file I found on the internet... it's at the actual size of the original image. I generated the much larger lineart version in GIMP. In actual use the lineart version is 1624 x 1600 pixels resolution. It's reduced to 900 x 900 pixels to meet the forum requirements.

Image 02

This is the heightmap I created in GIMP... It took about 10 mins to do the actual height mapping... again in use it's at 1624 x 1600 pixels resolution.

Image 03

This image is a render of the mesh generated in gmax. Generating the mesh took about 5 to 10 mins at most. Conversion from .MD3 to .STL format took about a minute using 3D Exploration 1.5...

Image 04

This is a cutting preview of the result in commercial software.

Image 05

A Cutting Preview from Freemill

Image 06

A blowup of the finish toolpath created in Freemill... I'll attach it to the post following this one (if the forum will accept it) as 6 attachments is the forum limit. I should point out that this is a large job. To get the required detail it will need to be cut at about 500 x 500 mm.. but I have a LARGE machine.. so I don't tend to cut small jobs....

To be fair there are some things that should be noted about the Freemill generated code. It's not as efficient as code created in some commercial software.

As Freemill is a basic coding engine there are no options to limit cut extents to the job outline or sillhouette. However, it is FREE.. and it WILL create code capable of cutting a 3D job to the same kind of detail and finish available from commercial software.

The cutting preview is not as pretty in Freemill but it is informative.. and that's what matters most. If you don't have the funds for a commercial 3D code generator then Freemill can be a useful tool.. and it is capable of complex and detailed work.. If you know how to use it...

As Always... Hope this helps

Danny

EDIT:

Unfortunately the forum will not accept the zip of the Freemill code. It's within limits at 2.9MB.. so it should really upload....

If anyone wants to check out the code PM me and I'll send it by email...

[yohudi]

Hi there,

some enlargements of the cutting previews from the above post...

Tried to edit the above post and add them there but seems I'm now unable to do this.. or there's some kind of problem with my browser...

anyway.. enlargements are below...

ttfn

Danny

EDIT.... VERY STRANGE.... I can edit this post... but not the one above....

EDIT 2.. In fact I can't edit ANY of my previous posts in this thread.. will see if I can edit THIS post tomorrow.....

EDIT 3.. I obviously CAN still Edit this post... However EDIT of ANY post I've made at the zone previous to this one HAS been disabled... tick,tock tick,tock....

[dlgabry]

Danny,
Can you enlighten me as to the Gimp operations you used to get from 'image 01' to 'image 02' above? I've been playing with this for a few days, and it's not intuitive to me.
Thanks,
Dave

[yohudi]

Danny,
Can you enlighten me as to the Gimp operations you used to get from 'image 01' to 'image 02' above? I've been playing with this for a few days, and it's not intuitive to me.
Thanks,
Dave

Hi there,

If you don't see how this works intuitively, discussion of the techniques in a forum is not really the best way of learning them.. Images describing steps etc can be quite large.. and I can no longer post large clear images here for some reason.. I have to compress images considerably just to get them to upload. This didn't become a problem until just recently... my account here is not what it was... enough said.

Also,posting the step-by-step on this here would defeat the purpose of work I've done at cnc4free.org and the revision of the ebook I'm currently working on.... I'm not about to do this.. especially as I'm planning on a FREE release of at least some form of the ebook in about 30 days or so anyway...

However, you might like to look at use of GIMP selection, path, fill and layer tools as well as the information that can be found at the link below... in conjunction with the chapter overviews at cnc4free.org, this should point you in the right direction....

The link is to an FREE online version of the book 'Kai' Powertips' by Kai Krause, a respected graphics guru from 'back in the day'. The book is aimed at users of photoshop but is easily adapted for use in GIMP. Much of the work described relating to transparency effects is useful creating heightmaps for CNC use....

http://www.mprove.de/script/90/KPT/index.html

Other than that I'd be sure to visit cnc4free.org in about 30 days or so.... sorry I can't be more helpful just at the moment.

TTFN

Danny

EDIT: Test

[Drools]

I was wondering if someone could help me convert this jpg to vector format. I have been working on it but I'm not very good at it and from what I have heard most of the good software is not free.
Thanks for the help!

[yohudi]

I was wondering if someone could help me convert this jpg to vector format. I have been working on it but I'm not very good at it and from what I have heard most of the good software is not free.
Thanks for the help!

Hi There,

Do you mean a 2D vector like the one I've attached... or a 3D Mesh...

As far as I'm concerned, you can't believe what you hear about FREE software.. FREE software plus a little knowledge and some basic skills will produce extremely usable 2D and 3D results. This file didn't require anything that your average 10 year old couldn't do after 10 mins with a little pointing in the right direction...

I created this vector using GIMP to make a lineart version of the image and WinTopo to create the vector from the lineart... Essentially you just need to decide what's helpful to keep as far as cutting or engraving is concerned.. and what is not required.. this also helps avoid issues with copyright as you create a unique version rather than an exact duplicate... Uncle George Lucas is quite protective of his intellectual property.. so best not to upset him...
or anyone else for that matter.

If you want a 3D version then GIMP, a displacement 'engine' like gmax or 3D Paysage and a file converter will produce very usable results

hope this helps

Danny

[Drools]

Thank you very much! I'm just learning at this point, I will let you know how it turns out.

[yohudi]

Thank you very much! I'm just learning at this point, I will let you know how it turns out.

Hi There,

No problem and happy to help...

It's very easy to learn this kind of thing if you go about it in the right way...

GIMP was particularly helpful to this image as it has image processing filters that other applications don't have. I used a GIMP 'Difference of Gaussians' filter then created a 'path' based on the result. The GIMP path is an .SVG vector and can be used in several ways to arrive at a .DXF.

Personally I tend to scale the path, then 'Stroke' it to create high-resolution lineart. I then vectorize to .DXF with WinTopo. This produces very efficient vectors with the lowest node-count of any method I've tested. If you download the FREE version of the cnc4free.org ebook when it comes online in May the method I used is covered in some detail..

All the best and stick at it...

Danny

[Drools]

Actually I found building the CNC router (8020 build) easier than working with the software to get the results we need to produce a file for the router. I'm a trained DBA and I hate working with graphics programs, I don't know why I just never have liked doing the graphics arts stuff. If I can find a easy step by step procedure that takes the guess work out of the process I'm all for it.
Thanks again.