[ataxy]

no no,what i want to express it is 1610 have some relative with syil,i was post those info before,but delected by administrator,i won`t post again.course i have been make some emails with Mr phlip of mikini.

no need explain too much i think now.market will see the later....
but anyway..we are coming,we are not slience always now.

dont want you to take this badly but here is a thing you should do...get yourself a communication agent, i know you do your best but your english, what some call chinglish, is really bad and can sometime bring some confusion, if you would be a guy that i would meet at a party or a job it would not be a problem but now whe are talking business relationship and it would be trully a good idea that when you express yourself it is clear and without any ? or !... anyway its for you and it would save alot of confusion.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

All,

Great discussion. Here's a bit more information relevant to the discussion here.

1) The Mikini 1610L was designed from a clean sheet in the USA. It took us nearly 3 years in design and development, including both CAD-FEA analysis and refinement. It may be similar in travel range, some features and price to other machines in the market, but is not based on castings of, or related to any machine prior. When you get into the details, it is substantially different than any other solution in this price range. We own our facilities both in the US and overseas. We produce the majority of our components in our own facilities and have strict in process QC measures in place for all third party components. For consideration, take precision parts such as our spindle units, which we assemble ourselves. Take a look at the difference in operating temperature of our spindle (115F at 5000 rpm) vs Asian spindles (160 - 200 degrees F). Better get some welding gloves out to change those tools. Wonder why those bearings keep failing on a typical 80mm R8 spindle every couple hundred hours? We know, and we fixed it.

WE DO NOT condone FALSE information presented intended to confuse customers. Not even sure how a lathe cover would or could fit a mill. We designed and build our own enclosures in our own facility.

2) It is not a big surprise to us that other machines are following this overall layout, nearly 2 years after release of our machine. We shake our head at some of the choices made when certain vendors try to duplicate things but don't understand the fundamental engineering behind the design. Both mechanically and electrically. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details, and we encourage anyone interested in the details to give us a call.

3) We highly recommend that all interested parties do the research to prove or disprove all claims. Again, we feel there is a substantial amount of mis-information and opinion here not based on facts, as well as intentionally misleading facts presented.

4) Mikini Mechatronics is a wholly USA owned company. All support, final assembly and QC of our machines takes place in California. We do not have a formal showroom, but are happy to show any interested parties our machines in our industrial assembly facility in Watsonville, California.

5) Support, reliability, documentation, safety features and compliance, and honesty in specifications are a big deal. We designed our machines to be reliable in industrial service, easy to maintain and troubleshoot, and have generous safety factors. We highly encourage customers to do their research. You may be shocked at what you find, as we were when we purchased another vendors machine. There is a wealth of information about the support (or lack of) post (and pre) sale support, documentation, and reliability delivered by several vendors in these forums.

6) We don't spend money on a bunch of marketing or overhead. We don't do tradeshows. We don't have a $2.00 a square foot showroom. Wonder what a full color 2 page AD in a magazine costs ? How much of your machine purchase price is going to your vendors AD and or overhead line ? We spend money on building (in our opinion) the highest value, highest performance, most reliable machine available for the money and let the machines speak for themselves.

If you need a reliable industrial quality machine from a US company, designed, assembled, qc'd and supported here in the US, built to make real parts give us a call. We don't claim it is the right solution for many users here who simply do not need the features and performance we offer, but do know that it is the only solution for some.

Enjoy your weekend,

- Mikini Mechatronics
831.254.2012





Originally Posted by syil
mostly similar,but we have more solid x table stands.
i post mikini pic,but was delect,i won`t post again,if you need more info,email to me.
we are working on a big encloser for x7 too,and i`m confidence better than miniki use a lathe cover.we will make more industry and prefessional.
im just pointing out the obvious.

everyone knows most of the machines in this price bracket are all based on the same designs and expanded by each bulder. im sure if you looked hard, youd find a manual machine with a near identical frame to the tormach. you arent going to win any sales here by claiming the the x7 and the mikini are the same when they very clearly arent.

Hey, you guys are in my neighborhood, and I never knew! I'm up in Santa Cruz. It's really nice to see things like this happening in the US, and especially around here! Keep it up!

Saaaayyyy... You're not hiring, are you? :-)

Regards,
Ray L.

[ihavenofish]

dont want you to take this badly but here is a thing you should do...get yourself a communication agent, i know you do your best but your english, what some call chinglish, is really bad and can sometime bring some confusion, if you would be a guy that i would meet at a party or a job it would not be a problem but now whe are talking business relationship and it would be trully a good idea that when you express yourself it is clear and without any ? or !... anyway its for you and it would save alot of confusion.

says the man who speaks fringlish.



j/k

[rowbare]

Hey, you guys are in my neighborhood, and I never knew! I'm up in Santa Cruz. It's really nice to see things like this happening in the US, and especially around here! Keep it up!

Saaaayyyy... You're not hiring, are you? :-)

Regards,
Ray L.

So you could go check them out and give us a report?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

So you could go check them out and give us a report?

I certainly could if they're willing! It would even be fun!

Regards,
Ray L.

[aussiedude]

Im the proud owner of a new Mikini 1610, its amazing, way better then most other small units. I wanted a "propper machine", not a converted mill drill which i have done a few of and never quite been happy with.

from the full torque DC spindle drive rather than am ac vfd to the linear bearings and ball screws on the axis instead pof standard ways etc this is always a few steps up from the competition. the dedicated control screen for manual mode is also a great help and the enclosure , oiler and flood system are all superb. When i added up all the extra $$ for the tormach bits and pieces and even then it didnt offer everything that the 1610 did it was a no brainer.
hope that helps.

[keen]

Glad you are so happy with it. It certainly looks the part. I am looking forward to some feedback as to how well it handels serious machining in tough steel.

[howecnc]

Hey guys,
Sorry for the long delay in a reply. I have my Mikini and it is up and running. I am very satisfied with the quality and support so far. There have been a few bumps in the road but the highway looks very clear now.

In regards to cutting aluminum and plastics I can say the accuracy and surface finish is much better than the Tormach. The machine sounds very beefy when cutting. I have a part made with each machine and you can feel and see the difference but I do not call this an accurate comparison. the parts were run with the same code but not the same tooling. The ER-collet chuck have a lot more rigidity than the TTS system. As time goes on I will do an apples to apples comparison.

Feel free to start asking questions and if you are in the Northeast I am more than willing to invite interested people over.

more to follow,

Chris Howe
Howe CNC Services, LLC

[keen]

Thanks Chris - keep us posted! cheers.

[ataxy]

says the man who speaks fringlish.



j/k

lol hey what do you have against my FRENGLISH you.. you ...:cheers:

[ihavenofish]

lol hey what do you have against my FRENGLISH you.. you ...:cheers:

my mom is from new brunswick... so... everything!

[mcphill]

In regards to cutting aluminum and plastics ...

I think the biggest question is in regards to cutting harder materials. Mikini promised videos over a year ago, and I think they still haven't "delivered". I think they could make MANY more sales with just a few simple days work at making videos of what the machine can do!

[hoss2006]

I think the biggest question is in regards to cutting harder materials. Mikini promised videos over a year ago, and I think they still haven't "delivered". I think they could make MANY more sales with just a few simple days work at making videos of what the machine can do!

there are several mikini videos on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MikiniMech
Hoss

[twocik]

HoweCNC lets see those parts....


I'm currently in the process of purchasing the Tormach finally and I'm glad I've waited. The price on this machine is another 1k out of my range, but we'll see.







Question for Mikini

Does your machine have the same work flow as a Tormach system ?

Does your package include software like the Tormach ?

Is it capable of 3D milling, not just 2.5D ?

Last is there any way of looking into making an Apple Mac based system ?



I've owned my film company for almost 12 years and can tell you your videos don't do your machine/company much justice (they look homemade). Please don't take this to offense, but they're kind of dark, not enough angles and definitely need to show finish, close up shots of cutting, surfacing, taping, etc..

I think this would leave out alot of questions your companies has to answer and leave more time to focus on your product. I think your product looks very promising and would love to see one in action, but I'm not sure if you have any kind of showcasing in Naples, FL ?

[syil]

the original machine was our syil x7 series.
now we update many features.like add blance block,change automatic oil system,change working table T slot,and z axis cover,to compare the old pic,we just update it.and make this machine more prefessional with affordable cost.

it is should be very reasonble cost.....
i think our x7 series price under 10000$.but with more stable quality by syil inspection.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92528

[MIKINI MECH]

Twocik,

Thanks for your interest in the 1610L. In response:

1) The workflow of the machine has a major advantage over machines that exclusively use PC based motion control (MACH 3, EMC, EMCO etc) such as the Tormach. The 2010 1610L features the Mikini second generation CNC control system which has full manual authority over the machine for setup, stock operations, and replacement of manual machines. This control system also has the additional advantage of greater safety when under PC CNC control, as a dedicated microprocessor is operating to protect the machine at all times, independent of, and with full authority over the PC control system. Call us to discuss in greater detail, and see images attached to this post.

2) We include the mach 3 software profiles for the machine as do most vendors. We also deal and stock CAM and Mach3 software packages. Call us for details.

3) The machine was designed for 3D, 4 axis or 5 axis work. Every machine ships ready for a 4th axis unlike other machines, and has a 5 axis output as standard. We don't advertise this, but it's there on every 1610L for users who have access to 5 axis hardware and software.

4) We are not pursuing an apple based system.

5) We primarily focus on building machines that exceed expectations and providing the highest level of technical information available with all of our marketing, including videos.

Machining metrics are included in our videos, which are lacking on nearly every other marketing or consumer video or "test" part posted by other machine manufacturers, in both industrial and hobby markets.

We agree with you fully that our marketing is lacking in flash and sizzle. This is a conscious decision we have made to keep the marketing costs as low as possible to provide the highest value machine price/performance ratio in the marketplace. You might be frightened to learn how much of your machine purchase price is going into marketing accounts of companies with full double page magazine spreads and huge web marketing accounts rather than the components that matter on your machine.

We invite you to stack the 1610L up against any other solution in the market on any metric, and decide if it is the right machine for your application. We are extremely confident you will find it is in a class of it's own.

http://mikinimech.com/dare%20to%20compare%20mikini.pdf

http://www.mikinimech.com/1610lspec20.pdf

Regards

- Mikini Mechatronics

Question for Mikini

Does your machine have the same work flow as a Tormach system ?

Does your package include software like the Tormach ?

Is it capable of 3D milling, not just 2.5D ?

Last is there any way of looking into making an Apple Mac based system ?



I've owned my film company for almost 12 years and can tell you your videos don't do your machine/company much justice (they look homemade). Please don't take this to offense, but they're kind of dark, not enough angles and definitely need to show finish, close up shots of cutting, surfacing, taping, etc..

I think this would leave out alot of questions your companies has to answer and leave more time to focus on your product. I think your product looks very promising and would love to see one in action, but I'm not sure if you have any kind of showcasing in Naples, FL ?

[MIKINI MECH]

Guys and Gals: Please do your homework before seriously considering a machine vendor, especially ones that present false information.

We would be happy to answer any questions that arise in detail directly. Feel free to give us a call if you want more information about the 1610L and the exclusive features and price/performance ratio it offers.

Happy New Year,

- Mikini Mechatronics

im just pointing out the obvious.

everyone knows most of the machines in this price bracket are all based on the same designs and expanded by each bulder. im sure if you looked hard, youd find a manual machine with a near identical frame to the tormach. you arent going to win any sales here by claiming the the x7 and the mikini are the same when they very clearly arent.



http://img.alibaba.com/photo/2291308...420L_frame.jpg

Originally Posted by MIKINI MECH (Post #133)

1) The Mikini 1610L was designed from a clean sheet in the USA. It took us nearly 3 years in design and development, including both CAD-FEA analysis and refinement. It may be similar in travel range, some features and price to other machines in the market, but is not based on castings of, or related to any machine prior. When you get into the details, it is substantially different than any other solution in this price range. We own our facilities both in the US and overseas. We produce the majority of our components in our own facilities and have strict in process QC measures in place for all third party components. For consideration, take precision parts such as our spindle units, which we assemble ourselves. Take a look at the difference in operating temperature of our spindle (115F at 5000 rpm) vs Asian spindles (160 - 200 degrees F). Better get some welding gloves out to change those tools. Wonder why those bearings keep failing on a typical 80mm R8 spindle every couple hundred hours? We know, and we fixed it.

the original machine was our syil x7 series.
now we update many features.like add blance block,change automatic oil system,change working table T slot,and z axis cover,to compare the old pic,we just update it.and make this machine more prefessional with affordable cost.

it is should be very reasonble cost.....
i think our x7 series price under 10000$.but with more stable quality by syil inspection.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92528

[ihavenofish]

sigh

i guess any publicity is good publicity to syil...

[Tormachmaster]

I have a few questions. The guides are better well I have not seen them but they could be better but remember they do make cheap linear slides I have seen them on several router cnc so I guess I am asking for some real pictures of this machine the guts? Does it use steppers or servos? Here is the best one I dont ever want to forget you see most or the reason mills like prototrak, hurko and others the reason why they dont use the linear slides is the facts of price and they dont have the main fram in size linear slidesare supposed to be mounted down the rails that is the the table goes to the slide bearings so does this machine have them mounted this way does it have a large base to mount the slide rails to? The travel is not as large as the tormach from what ive read on their site that matters alot to me as I grasp for every inch. But the weight sound good. Please take pictures of detail like the slides and how they are mounted and the drive motors or steppers? And even the cabinet. Sounds like you bought a nice machine for the second time if you already own a tormach? I have used my tormach to build a pretty nice 4th axis useing a super indexer and plan to build my own one step larger say a foot in travel cnc most will be off the tormach and some mazaks ofcourse. Please answer these questions nothing is said as negative I just want to know and dont forget the pictures. Good luck.

[Larken]

Looks like a nice little machine. Too bad the spindle is only 5000 rpm, it would be better to be at least 16000 rpm for a small cnc machining center.

How do you do a ATC with a R8 collet ?

Are the linear rails put on and trued in California or China ?

Larry K