[Tig Artist]

I see all these builds of tables and some pics of work that was done on homemade cutters. Lets post up pics of the best quality work that can be done on these machines. Please post metal thickness and brand and model of cutter you use. I want to build one but not sure if the cut quality will meet my expectations. Close ups please. Thanks

[jimcolt]

I can post pics of cuts done on a commercially available low cost (hobby class) machine from PlasmaCam with a Hypertherm Powermax45 torch if you are interested in comparison between it and home built machines...let me know.

Jim

[Tig Artist]

Jim I don't want any pissing matchs ............... I am most interested in seeing cut quality in like 3/8 or 1/2 steel. I am spoiled because I have been forced to buy my cuttings from a local place here that uses a max200. I want to build my own table and I would be very dissapointed if my cuts had gobs of dross on the back side. I just unloaded 2 cuttings tonight that were cut from 1/2"A-36 with a total circumferential length of over 200" and the dammed things are absolutely perfect not one iotta of dross, cuts are absolutely flat not washed out, the cut lines that are seen are absolutely square to the work piece no washing. the problem is that I buy enough of these that I feel that I can afford to stick some cash into my own set up. But I just feel like it will be hard to compete with a MAX200 as far as cut quality., and if I can't reproduce the results that I am used to I would be dissapointed. Please post up pics but no pissing match's. I am just trying to learn what I can here.

[jimcolt]

Tig,

The Max200 is made by the same company that makes the Powermax45....the difference between the two systems is that the Max200 produces 200 Amps, has a liquid cooled torch, and has the ability to use oxygen for cutting steel......the 45 is a 45 Amp air plasma....with maximum production capability to 1/2".

Both will provide square, virtually dross free cuts on 3/8" and 1/2" material....the Max200 will cut 1/2" at 80 inches per minute, while the 45 will do it at about 20 inches per minute. The oxygen cutting process on the 200 will provide a softer edge that is 100% weldable, while the edge cut with the 45 will look almost identical but will have some hardening due to the nitrogen content of the air process.....which also can cause porosity if the edge is directly welded without grinding first.

The Max200 sells for $15,000, the Powermax45 sells for $1,500.

The plasma alone does not make a good cut.....you can put the best performing plasma in the world (which also happens to be Hypertherm's HPR130, HPR260 and HPR400 high definition class plasma's) on a cutting machine with sloppy drives, sluggish acceleration and a poorly performing torch height control system and the cut edge quality will be very bad.....drossy, out of tolerance, and with varying edge angularity.

When I visit shops that complain about their cnc plasma cut quality (assuming they have the latest in plasma technology!) I find over 90% of the time issues like these. (in this order) 1. Torch height control functionality, 2. Part programming techniques...especially hole lead ins and lead outs, 3. Motion control issues with their cutting machine....usually rough motion, sluggish acceleration and deacceleration, mechanical slop/backlash. Once these issues are straightened out the plasma miraculously cuts very well!

It sounds like your supplier is doing things right with the Max200...you should look carefully at what he is using for a cutting machine, torch height control system, and cutting software. The Max 200 is still in Hypertherm's product line, but it was designed over 20 years ago......compared to newer equivalent systems from Hypertherm its drawbacks are consumable life....and the ability to get square, clean cuts on materials thinner than about 3/8".

I wanted to post some pictures showing the capability of the entry level plasma as used correctly on a machine with good motion and good height control. The PlasmaCam machine is low cost....and is designed specifically for entry level plasma systems.....it could not even carry the Max200 torch!

Jim Colt

[Bigtoy302]

Jim is right. You will not be able to compete will a hy-def or oxygen plasma on 1/2". With air plasma you will get some angularity of the cut edge. But the new Hypertherm air plasma you can get great cut for the price. Here are a few cuts done on my homebuilt table using a Powermax45.

3/8" AR500 cut at 30IPM


1/4" HR cut at 50IPM 3/8" hole cut at 25IPM with only .012 taper.


Completed part.

[jimcolt]

Bigtoy,

Good looking cuts.....I use my Powermax45 on a PlasmaCam....I didn't have the time to build a homebuilt machine.....cuts look similar to yours. Heres a few I have done.

Jim

[Tig Artist]

Jim I totally understand what you are saying about the enertial and drive aspects of of a table and how design flaws are very easilly detrimental to cut Quality. I am after 1 thing and 1 thing only.. Cut quality. I am willing to spend what it takes to get bad ass cut quality. There have been many pics posted on here of cuttings that were made on home built tables and quite frankly alot of these cuttings suck in appearence. Like I posted earlier if I went to all this work and had cut qualities like alot of these that have been posted here it for me would be a giant waste. So what you are saying is that the latest from hypertherm air combined with a excellent designed table and control will produce cuts that would most likely meet my expectations. That is what I wanted to hear. I have a fully equipped machine shop and am still gathering info before I spend a dime. If I were to buy a THC whose would you say would be the best that money can buy right now? Thanks alot jim for the help and info!

[Bigtoy302]

The THC from Candcnc is the best for the money for a DIY table. How straight of sides are you trying to achieve? How thick are you going to be cutting? How much do you want to spend? I think the quality that you want is only going to be in a Hypertherm HPR system and those start out at like $35k with no THC. I think the Powermax45 is going to be your best bet for air plasma. Don't underestimate it's 45 amps of power. This thing cuts way better then my Powermax 1000 ever did.

[Tig Artist]

302 those cuttings look excellent! very nice work. I have a few questions. how does the 45 do piercing 1/2"? If you did alot of work in 1/2" what would you buy for a cutter if you could start over? In your opinion if you bought a cutter that would do excellet work in 1/2" what would you guess would be the lightest material that you would want to cut? last question if you bought a THC tomorrow for a new table what would you buy?

Again 302 dammed nice work and im interested in learning from your experience.

Thanks!

[Tig Artist]

Sheet 302 we are posting at the same time.

No No the cut quality that you have posted would meet my expectations. very nice! Bottom line is if I gotta buy a HD cutter...... it won't happen. Is ther something about the 45 that produces better quality cuts than the next step up the line?

[Tig Artist]

here are the parameters us on my last cuttings.
Table- http://www.alltracorp.com/
Amps- 130
true utilization-(what ever the hell that is) 18.48%

program used is-PRONEST

[Bigtoy302]

Sheet 302 we are posting at the same time.

No No the cut quality that you have posted would meet my expectations. very nice! Bottom line is if I gotta buy a HD cutter...... it won't happen. Is ther something about the 45 that produces better quality cuts than the next step up the line?

Yes, There is something called conical flow for the 45 that makes it better then the older units. I sure JimColt will chime in. It is not rated to pierce 1/2" but it will do it. I have not cut 1/2" yet but JimColt has.

[WSS]

Does it have to be CNC Plasma? Can we post pics of parts cut with a 60's vintage shape cutter and torch? I have a few parts I have to cut out of AR500 this weekend. Tricky little 1/2" slotted holes in 1/2".

I won't have my CNC table up until mid August. I will try putting the T100M torch on the old Heath to test it.

Bigtoy302, It's hard to tell the scale, what is the diameter of the target on the AR500 piece?

WSS

[jimcolt]

Tig,

In one post you say you are after "1 thing.....and 1 thing only - cut quality".

The best cut quality comes from a high definition class plasma. The Hypertherm HPR130 will cut 3/4" steel all day....and will also cut 24 gauge steel with precision. Cut quality, consumable life and cut speed are second to none....and this system can be automated so that all setup parametrs are handled through the part program. It will cut the thickest materials at 100% duty cycle.

At the other end of the spectrum is the Powermax45....it is the lates entry level air plasma system. It is advertised to cut 3/8" on a production basis....although at about a 50% duty cycle rating.....I have pierce and cut a lot of 1/2" with mine...with excellent results.....but if I was doing it all day long the speed (18" per minute) would be quite slow.

The HPR130 is $31,000. The Powermax45 is about $1500. At some point...you need to determine how much cut quality is necessary....alond with productivity and duty cycle requirements you need to do the job.

A two or three shift busy shop will need the HPR capabilities. A small fab shop doing low quantities of parts is often happy with an air plasma.

Jim

[jimcolt]

Here are some samples cut with oxygen, high definition class plasma.

-the first one is 3/8" steel....a 5/16" hole was cut with an HPR130 at 80 Amps, 72 inches per minute. The hole was perfectly round, about .004" taper, and had virtually no hardness....was tapped with a crafstmen brand 3/8-16 tap!

-second is a piece of .135" steel cut with an HPR130 at 30 Amps at about 60 ipm. The holes are .200" diameter....no dross, virtually no edge angularity.

-third is 1" steel....holes were cut at 200 Amps with an HPR260. Hole diamters range from 1/2" to 1-1/2".....no cleanup required.

The high definition class oxygen plasma will produce exceptional cut quality at very high speed....with minimal HAZ (heat affected zone). In comparison...an air plasma will produce more edge taper, and the nitrogen content in air will nitride the edge of steel...creating a case hardening effect. You could not tap an air cut hole.

Jim Colt

[magma-joe]

Jim, after reading several of your comments about the powermax 45 I have a question. What makes the power source any different from the powermax 45 and the 1250 or 1000 powermax series other than the amps and the duty cycle? Does the 45 have a different torch than the other machines? Why is there is such a noticeable difference in the cut quality of the 45? If it is the torch design will Hypertherm offer this updated torch design to users of the 1250 / 1000 series?

[Bigtoy302]

Does it have to be CNC Plasma? Can we post pics of parts cut with a 60's vintage shape cutter and torch? I have a few parts I have to cut out of AR500 this weekend. Tricky little 1/2" slotted holes in 1/2".

I won't have my CNC table up until mid August. I will try putting the T100M torch on the old Heath to test it.

Bigtoy302, It's hard to tell the scale, what is the diameter of the target on the AR500 piece?

WSS

8"

[tof1]

Jim, after reading several of your comments about the powermax 45 I have a question. What makes the power source any different from the powermax 45 and the 1250 or 1000 powermax series other than the amps and the duty cycle? Does the 45 have a different torch than the other machines? Why is there is such a noticeable difference in the cut quality of the 45? If it is the torch design will Hypertherm offer this updated torch design to users of the 1250 / 1000 series?

I would like to know this as well. I just purchased a Powermax 1000 for my table build and I'm hoping I didn't pick the wrong plasma... Does anyone have any side by side cuts for comparison of the Powermax 45 and 1000?

[jimcolt]

Its a totally new torch design. The cut quality is similar to the quality with the 1000 or the 1250 when using FineCut consumables.....but it does this throughout its thickness range, and with much longer consumable life. The new torch has new technology called conical flow. There are no current plans that I am aware of to offer this torch technology on the other systems in the product line.

The 1000 has more power for 3/8 and thicker materials....but I personally think the cut quality is better with the 45 up through 1/2".....Hypertherm claims the 45 can only pierce 3/8"....but I have no issues piercing 1/2".

Jim

[dnelso]

Seems kind of weird that hypertherm would not make the new technology available for the more expensive machines like the 1250 or 1650. I just bought a 1250 and it makes me a little angry that a 1600.00 machine will cut better and have better consumable life.
Dave